Freshmen need to play more

[MyMeloMyMan]

Cooney was "active" on defense, but not fundamentally "good". That starts to rear its head against bigger, better competition.

 

[IthacaMatt]

if cooney knocks down a couple 3s he'd get more pt. if coleman would stop airballing layups and being lost on defense he'd get more pt. this isnt rocket surgery. jb plays to win every game, i love that about him, its up to the players to force jb to play them.

Cooney is SO erratic - it's either a swish or an air ball. He is still seriously nervous out there. Although I give him credit because he works his butt off on defense. I think Grant has earned some trust from Boeheim, and of the 3 frosh, he's the one who is most likely to continue to see real playing time.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Some kids look like they have the ability to really progress w/in a season. Others don't.

Melo wasn't going to improve enough to make a difference, but I think Rak could've if he played serious minutes. I think Grant is more in the Rak camp, while Coleman is probably more of a Melo. That said, without a contribution from Coleman or Grant I can't see this team winning 5 or 6 games in the tourney. Maybe, maybe 4, if the matchups are right or we shoot lights out.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that you tank games to develop players, but there seems like there's gotta be a middle ground. You can't just roll the dice and hope it doesn't come up snake eyes.

The "middle ground" is the first half cameo. Either you make a play or two while you're out there, or you won't play in the second half.

 

[IthacaMatt]

JB has been consistently clear regarding playing time. The players that give us the best chance at winning are the ones who are going to play. JB also does not give much credence to the importance of who starts vs. who comes in off the bench. He has pointed out on numerous occasions that some players who come in off the bench end up getting "starters minutes" ergo: considerable playing time.

It seems abundantly clear that in JB's eyes the freshmen are not ready yet to contribute. I would guess he would play them more if their play was more of an asset than a liability. He is like Donald Rumsfeld in that " As you know, ah, you go to war with the army you have---not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time."

JB runs the team more in the style of a dictator than a benevolent patriarch. He is fiercely loyal to his players, especially those who have endured waiting their turn. What sometimes is maddening is the fact that all players are not treated evenhandedly. Some players can commit incredibly egregious bone headed plays with perhaps only a momentary disdainful glance from coach. Others... as referenced by SoBeCuse, might be the unlucky recipient of an ill conceived and poorly executed pass which they fumble or miss, and then immediately get the hook and are not seen back on the hardwood for the balance of the game.

Even harder to understand is the ceremonious "starts" of certain players (we don't need names here do we?) who clearly have not earned a starting spot and clearly are not going to play meaningful minutes in the game. This happening against the backdrop of having the best player on the team not starting. Trying to figure out JB's motivation for running things the way he does is an exercise in futility. But... at the end of the day he is 2nd all time in wins, is recruiting big time players, and is widely respected as a giant of the college game. It is what it is. I can however sympathize with those who think a greater effort to integrate the younger players into the rotation might ultimately pay dividends in March and April where we have all too many times not gone as far as one might have expected.

He starts those "token starters" because (a) he wants to give them a chance, and (b) it is often our best (and usually biggest) lineup to start with. If we can get some offensive flow and quality defense from the starters, they stay in. Too often, however, giving those "token starters" the chance to start winds up with us in an early deficit. But clearly those players are getting a chance to make an impact. That is important if you want to keep young players happy.

 

[IthacaMatt]

patterson, roberson, mccullough. probably another stud in 14.

I don't see Patterson as a sure thing to start over Cooney down the road. I think it'll be a competition. If Cooney can find his confidence in games before next season, he is likely a better pure shooter than Patterson. I see Patterson as kind of a Paul Harris type of player, but with a better jump shot. Silent G may be better than them both, but won't be here as long.

I don't think Roberson is going to displace Fair or Grant. And I think McCullough is better than either Roberson or B.J. McCullough is the next coming of Charles Smith, but hopefully a bit tougher.

 

[IthacaMatt]

If it is effecting recruiting it would seem to be effecting it in a positive way. Our 2012 class has two pretty good players in it and our 2013 class is spectacular. The idea that we are even in the discussion late with guys like Noel and Dakari is different than in the past.

Part of the pitch is "look at the quality of players you will be practicing against" - that's what they said to Wes Johnson - "while you're sitting out a year, you're going to practice against Paul Harris, and that will make you a better player. When you show that you can play equal to or better than these guys in practice, then you will be ready for showtime."

 

[Gabjon]

I don't see Patterson as a sure thing to start over Cooney down the road. I think it'll be a competition. If Cooney can find his confidence in games before next season, he is likely a better pure shooter than Patterson. I see Patterson as kind of a Paul Harris type of player, but with a better jump shot. Silent G may be better than them both, but won't be here as long.

I don't think Roberson is going to displace Fair or Grant. And I think McCullough is better than either Roberson or B.J. McCullough is the next coming of Charles Smith, but hopefully a bit tougher.

Paul Harris with a jump shot is better than Cooney. It just is also I see B.J. playing the two for us. Fair, Grant, Roberson, DC2, and Baye would be the front line.

 

[Gabjon]

If we keep putting sophomores (second year player) in the lottery recruiting will be fine! Flynn, Wes, Dion, and probably MCW since 09! and Fab as a first rounder....

 

[OttoMets]

Andy had one year that you could call "good" with us. His soph/junior year, it felt like he could never make the 3 when we needed it or would have a careless turnover. Didn't he shoot like 35% from 3 until his senior year?

Yeah, .358 through his first three.

Wouldn't call that bad, though - even ignoring his improved senior year, those numbers would have him on the cusp of the top-ten career shooting percentages at SU. (If we allow everyone with 100 attempts onto that list, as SU's media guide does, he'd be 14th in school history. Limiting the list to those with 150 career attempts would exclude Wes, Mookie, Wallace, Hopkins, and McCorkle, leaving Rautins 9th.)

With respect to the original post, yeah, freshmen should play more. It's probably true Coleman can't come in when we're trailing Providence. But he should've been getting 30 a night in the blow-outs, learning how to become a contributor before South Florida and Providence rolled around.

 

[tbonezone]

playing your starting center just 90 seconds a game is insane. who else follows this ridiculous JB logic? nobody!

 

[SBU72]

It is not a great precedence to top players that you might get pulled after one mistake or only play marginal minutes.

Are the top players that SU has gotten since 2010 really that bad and/or overrated by the coaches that their playing time reflects it? Other top players get more playing time and I'm sure that after a couple of seasons of the top players sitting on the bench, other players will notice this. Maybe it is already affecting recruiting ...

2010:
Fab Melo - # 1 Center (7 MPG in conference play)
Waiters - # 2 SG (16 MPG, eventual lottery pick)

2011:
Christmas - # 3 Center (9 MPG)
MCW - # 4 SG (8 MPG, 6 DNP including no NCAA tourney)

2012:
Coleman - # 6 Center (5 MPG)
Grant - # 11 PF (8 MPG)

2013:
Ennis - # 7 PG (???)
Roberson - # 10 PF (???)

Is there a trend here or am I just delusional?

I wouldn't say delusional just a little over the top. I mean how many time do you ever get the #1 player in a positon much less do it 2 years in a row? Getting Christmas after Fab was a major accomplishment. (and on some sites he was the #1 center) Getting the #4 SG isn't a real fall off from the #2. Even getting the #7 after having the 4 SG turn out to be really a pg is major. A few weeks ago there was a post how Duke has a couple of MDAA fgreshmen on the bench who having seen much court time. Has Coach K exerienced much fall of with that?