Fresno St QB in Portal

[Chip]

Unless Lamson is ready I think we really need another competent alternative

Lamson's not going to be ready. He didn't have a senior year in HS because of Covid, and his one developmental year was under the apparently incompetent Sterlin Gilbert.

People need to take a deep breath on that one. He still has 4 years. Maybe 2023 he's ready to go.

 

[007]

We need a QB or 2 this cycle and every cycle... I would be very surprised if we are not actively looking at portal QBs. That's not an anti-Shrader sentiment, that's doing what's best for the program.

 

[Cuseregular]

We need a QB or 2 this cycle and every cycle... I would be very surprised if we are not actively looking at portal QBs. That's not an anti-Shrader sentiment, that's doing what's best for the program.

Absolutely, no brainer.

 

[Louie&Bouie]

Other than DM name one Syracuse qb who was not "limited", one.

The term "limited" has never entered my vocabulary when discussing Don McPherson or Marvin Graves.

I thought both were exceptional college QB's.

 

[Carlsberg]

The term "limited" has never entered my vocabulary when discussing Don McPherson or Marvin Graves.

I thought both were exceptional college QB's.

McNabb...Perry Patterson would have this team bowling sadly.

 

[Cuseregular]

The term "limited" has never entered my vocabulary when discussing Don McPherson or Marvin Graves.

I thought both were exceptional college QB's.

maybe in their last year or two sure, of course they were, but in their earlier years like Shrader is now both were very limited.

Thought it goes without saying we're talking about a kid essentially in his RS frosh year as the comparison here to make with GS. So it still holds true other than DM name one kid who wasn't limited here when using stage of careers as the apples to apples comparison. Not comparing a kid who hasn't even had one fulls years experience being qb #1 to guys in their last year or two after 3-4+ years in the system who were great, complete players and physically mature.

What you point out is an apples vs. oranges situational comparison. If GS still appears limited in his later career here then I will concur that he was, is and remained a limited ability qb. Jury remains out IMO and I like a lot of what I see so far with hopes he grows steadily as a full player at his position.

 

[Louie&Bouie]

maybe in their last year or two sure, of course they were, but in their earlier years like Shrader is now both were very limited. Thought it goes without saying I'm talking about a kid essentially in his RS frosh year as the comparison here with GS. So it still holds true other than DM name one kid who wasn't limited here when using stage of careers as the apples to apples comparison. Not comparing a kid who hasn't even had one fulls years experience to guys in their last year or two who were great, complete players and physically mature.

What you point out is an apples vs. oranges situational comparison. If GS still appears limited in his later careers here then I will concur that he was, is and remained a limited ability qb.

Marvin Graves led the team to wins in the 1990 Aloha Bowl (as a Freshman, I believe), the 1992 Hall of Fame Bowl, and the 1993 Fiesta Bowl. His "92 stats were remarkable. If you don't think he was exceptional, then I would lay the comparative oranges and apples at your feet.

 

[Cuse181]

well you'd be an ineffective poster if you take away your right arm. Ridiculous nonsensical inaccurate take.

When he's doing well next year, better than this year the solace many of us will have is the knowledge that you unfair critics will be twisting in the wind not able to enjoy the success of his efforts and growth nor Syracuse footballs resurgence. You make him sound like Troy nunes. Way off not worth debating when one goes off the rails so spectacularly. Congrats.

So they took away his right arm against liberty, Clemson and wake when he was a 50% passer with 75%+ of his throws inside 10 yards? What, was he playing with it tied behind his back? Was his right arm gone his freshman year too? None of this criticism is unfair or unwarranted. When he is benched next year for another option I’m sure you’ll be coming back here to comment about how my “nonsensical inaccurate take” turned out to be a premonition.

 

[Cuseregular]

So they took away his right arm against liberty, Clemson and wake when he was a 50% passer with 75%+ of his throws inside 10 yards? What, was he playing with it tied behind his back? Was his right arm gone his freshman year too? None of this criticism is unfair or unwarranted. When he is benched next year for another option I’m sure you’ll be coming back here to comment about how my “nonsensical inaccurate take” turned out to be a premonition.

yeah I don't think I'll need to come back here for any of that. Because it won't happen. Whether anyone likes it or not, and barring a miracle portal get GS, very real limitations and all, is who we got. So we all better hope he makes the leap of improvement like a lot of young kids do.

So no I won't be the one needing to come back and eat crow, as Much like you may have very well been one of the ones debating that TD was better than GS to be qb #1 this year when anyone with eyes and a brain saw otherwise including ADJW who observed same monday. That was a fun debate and whoops guess who was right?

I’d keeping playing both qb’s. Still not very clear, IMO. What sucks is that cant run the same offense

Agreed, we need him to be better against better competition. But that's not the standard being applied to Shrader. Why? We know Tommy cannot get it done vs P5 teams. We don't know what Shrader can do. There is a reason why Dino brought him in and hasn't chosen a starting QB yet.

syracusefan.com

and this one would have been spot on if not for the aforementioned coaching gaffes:

Take A Guess

Based on what we have witnessed thus far, what do you predict the overall record will be come end of November?

syracusefan.com

No you'll be twisting in the wind unable to enjoy the seasons successes next year both with GS and the team because you're ilk is and remains too rigid to see the error of your ways just like with the GS vs. TD debate. Don't worry we all can't be right...

 

[Cuseregular]

Marvin Graves led the team to wins in the 1990 Aloha Bowl (as a Freshman, I believe), the 1992 Hall of Fame Bowl, and the 1993 Fiesta Bowl. His "92 stats were remarkable. If you don't think he was exceptional, then I would lay the comparative oranges and apples at your feet.

ok I'll give this point Graves had a good to great career contributing earlier than I recall (long long time ago). And, yes, lets stipulate that as I've noted in about 20 previous posts that at this point in his young career GS is limited and needs to improve.

BUT the main point stands accurate, Marvin WAS limited just like GS at a similar point early on in his career, just in a different way:

lets look at the numbers both first year in the program and overall careers to get an accurate comparison of where these two players stack up against one another year one and more.

Both qb %'s come in at less than 60% overall for a career both in the 50%'s completion rates both first year (58% vs 53%) and the career. Graves played in the less than scary old BE and his first year with us still independent.

GS played against SEC and ACC competition and despite this no comparison in competition the overall numbers still work in GS's favor by a long LONG shot. And as mentioned as he evolves hopefully it all get better.

In GS first year here (3/4 of a season essentially) vs. Graves first full season here: MG has 1700+ yards passing but 9 td's against 11 Int's. In fact his overall career is 48 tds vs 45 ints. Not exactly stellar numbers. And again, against much much lesser competition.

Shraders first year passing Td's is 9 against 4 int's. Career so far is 17 td's vs. 9 ints. That stacks up well vs. MG. Shrader in not even a full year for his first year here, year one rushing yards are more in that first year vs MG's ENTIRE career.

GS in his less than a full season his first year here had 800 yards rushing with 14 more TD's. 5 td's for MG vs 14 year one for GS. Career hes almost at 1400 yards Rushing and 20td's. Graves entire career rushing yards is less than 300 yards, first year 155 yards! That is the definition of limited in my book

MG had 17 td's his entire career rushing vs shraders 20 with with GS still having 3 years left to play. Overall total TD's year one MG had 14 vs. Shraders 23.

So yeah we can do this all day but the numbers don't lie and favor my arguement. That’s an apples to apples look at things and not an apples to oranges. For some reason too many of you are not willing to give GS credit and his due. I for one don't get the self defeating message that sends.

 

[tep624]

Are you dumb bud? Both of those players were moved from the QB position because they couldn’t compete with the other QBs on the roster. Shrader was converted back from WR when he came to Syracuse and Rex was converted back from TE in 2020. You really want to try and pretend Syracuse doesn’t have a QB problem when in the last 2 years they’ve had guys who didn’t even play the position the previous year on the two deep?

Shrader was converted because he’s a great athlete and wasn’t a fit for Leach’s offense. The previous coach, Joe Moorhead, who’s a pretty good offensive mind, played him at QB as a true frosh in the SEC no less. Stop being a .

 

[qdawgg]

Interesting that two posters who are very new on here seem to be big dbags.

 

[Wrinkle]

Jack Sears transferring from Boise. Former USC guy, highly rated, was stuck behind a good QB in Bachmeier at Boise. Would be a competition in camp with Shrader at the very least

 

[Cuseregular]

Interesting that two posters who are very new on here seem to be big dbags.

Yep most likely related to, one way or another, now Ex-Syracuse players, that’s all right their arguments are weak and easily defeated.

 

[qdawgg]

Yep most likely related to, one way or another, now Ex-Syracuse players, that’s all right their arguments are weak and easily defeated.

Was my thought exactly.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I like Shrader but I’m hoping the new OC is aiming higher. We can obviously run packages for Garrett.

A high profile transfer QB might be required to get some D1 WRs to come here. Yes he was hurt but it got ugly at the end we don’t really owe GS anything.

 

[JRHEETER]

Was my thought exactly.

I believe you guys are also correct in that

 

[Louie&Bouie]

ok I'll give this point Graves had a good to great career contributing earlier than I recall (long long time ago). And, yes, lets stipulate that as I've noted in about 20 previous posts that at this point in his young career GS is limited and needs to improve.

BUT the main point stands accurate, Marvin WAS limited just like GS at a similar point early on in his career, just in a different way:

lets look at the numbers both first year in the program and overall careers to get an accurate comparison of where these two players stack up against one another year one and more. Both qb %'s come in at less than 60% overall for a career both in the 50%'s completion rates both first year (58% vs 53%) and the career. Graves played in the less than scary old BE and his first year with us still independent. GS played against SEC and ACC competition and despite this no comparison in competition the overall numbers still work in GS's favor by a long LONG shot. And as mentioned as he evolves hopefully it all get better.

In GS first year here (3/4 of a season essentially) vs. Graves first full season here: MG has 1700+ yards passing but 9 td's against 11 Int's. In fact his overall career is 48 tds vs 45 ints. Not exactly stellar numbers. And again, against much much lesser competition.

Shraders first year passing Td's is 9 against 4 int's. Career so far is 17 td's vs. 9 ints. That stacks up well vs. MG. Shrader in not even a full year for his first year here, year one rushing yards are more in that first year vs MG's ENTIRE career. GS in his less than first season here had 800 yards rushing with 14 more TD's. 5 td's for MG vs 14 year one for GS here. Career hes almost at 1400 yards Rushing and 20td's. Graves entire career rushing yards is less than 300 yards, first year 155 yards. MG had 17 td's his entire career rushing vs shraders 20 with with GS still having 3 years left to play.

Overall total TD's year one MG had 14 vs. Shraders 23. So yeah we can do this all day but the numbers don't lie and favor my arguement. For some reason too many of you are not willing to give GS credit and his due. I for one don't get the self defeating message that sends.

You called McNabb the only QB in our history who wasn't "limited". I disagreed. And now you're turning it into an argument about Garrett Schrader. I love the kid. I've never said an unkind word about him and wish him nothing but success.

But McPherson and Graves were not limited. To say otherwise is a joke. Again, that was my original reply. Good Lord.

 

[Cuseregular]

You called McNabb the only QB in our history who wasn't "limited". I disagreed. And now you're turning it into an argument about Garrett Schrader. I love the kid. I've never said an unkind word about him and wish him nothing but success.

But McPherson and Graves were not limited. To say otherwise is a joke. Again, that was my original reply. Good Lord.

Sorry as I think I conflated you with the anti-Shrader crowd, apologies on that.

But the only way to effectively address this “limited“ discussion is the talk about the numbers.

If you don’t think a quarterback who had 155 yards rushing his entire season,more interceptions than touchdowns on a team with a record of 7–4-2, if that is not similarly “limited” as with Shraders early career situation, then I don’t know what to tell you.

Similarly with McPherson, Schrader in his less than one full season here has more rushing yardage then in McPherson‘s first 3 seasons, and in point in fact in that one 3/4 first season has rushing yards that is approaching what McPherson had in his entire career as well. In terms of passing he Has early in his career very similar numbers and in point of fact almost the exact early career passing numbers as Shrader that so many are disappointed with.

This while his team (McPhersons)was barely .500, to me that’s the definition of a similarly limited qb as well just like our current guy early in his career.

So Good lord right back at you for not seeing the reality of the situation in how they are/were all “limited” at the same early stages of all their careers.

 

[Louie&Bouie]

Sorry as I think I conflated you with the anti-Shrader crowd, apologies on that.

But the only way to effectively address this “limited“ discussion is the talk about the numbers.

If you don’t think a quarterback who had 155 yards rushing his entire season,more interceptions than touchdowns on a team with a record of 7–4-2, if that is not similarly “limited” as with Shraders early career situation, then I don’t know what to tell you.

Similarly with McPherson, Schrader in his less than one full season here has more rushing yardage then in McPherson‘s first 3 seasons, and in point in fact in that one 3/4 first season has rushing yards that is approaching what McPherson had in his entire career as well. In terms of passing he Has early in his career very similar numbers and in point of fact almost the exact early career passing numbers as Shrader that so many are disappointed with.

This while his team (McPhersons)was barely .500, to me that’s the definition of a similarly limited qb as well just like our current guy early in his career.

So Good lord right back at you for not seeing the reality of the situation in how they are/were all “limited” at the same early stages of all their careers.

Don McPherson should've won the Heisman in 1987.

Your semantic antics will never change that.

 

[Cuseregular]

Don McPherson should've won the Heisman in 1987.

Your semantical antics will never change that.

You, my friend, are very much preaching to the choir there! Just like with jim brown, the BS ND lore and legend won out versus the deserving winner. Amen

 

[Janner]

We 100% should try in bring in a QB this cycle, and bring in the best QB we can possibly get whether that is a transfer or a HS recruit. If any of the current QBs on the roster do not like it then they are obviously free to transfer. Competition is not just important but necessary at this level and the QB position is the most important position on the field. Players get injured, players transfer, and we just went 5-7 so there is definitely room for improvement. I think the Devito years are a good example of what happens when you dont have more than one true QB option on your roster.

 

[Cuse181]

yeah I don't think I'll need to come back here for any of that. Because it won't happen. Whether anyone likes it or not, and barring a miracle portal get GS, very real limitations and all, is who we got. So we all better hope he makes the leap of improvement like a lot of young kids do.

So no I won't be the one needing to come back and eat crow, as Much like you may have very well been one of the ones debating that TD was better than GS to be qb #1 this year when anyone with eyes and a brain saw otherwise including ADJW who observed same monday. That was a fun debate and whoops guess who was right?

I’d keeping playing both qb’s. Still not very clear, IMO. What sucks is that cant run the same offense

Agreed, we need him to be better against better competition. But that's not the standard being applied to Shrader. Why? We know Tommy cannot get it done vs P5 teams. We don't know what Shrader can do. There is a reason why Dino brought him in and hasn't chosen a starting QB yet.

syracusefan.com

and this one would have been spot on if not for the aforementioned coaching gaffes:

Take A Guess

Based on what we have witnessed thus far, what do you predict the overall record will be come end of November?

syracusefan.com

No you'll be twisting in the wind unable to enjoy the seasons successes next year both with GS and the team because you're ilk is and remains too rigid to see the error of your ways just like with the GS vs. TD debate. Don't worry we all can't be right...

I’d love to be wrong, but I won’t be. The real shrader is 150 yards through the air and 60-70 on the ground guy. If they stack the box and have Power 5 CBs to play man coverage Syracuse is going to lose. He can’t fit the ball into tight windows and can only hit the deep ball once in a blue moon. You can be his cheerleader if you want, no one is saying you can’t but Syracuse would be better served finding a replacement who can complement Tucker as opposed to allow defenses to key in on him.

 

[baggerbob]

So they took away his right arm against liberty, Clemson and wake when he was a 50% passer with 75%+ of his throws inside 10 yards? What, was he playing with it tied behind his back? Was his right arm gone his freshman year too? None of this criticism is unfair or unwarranted. When he is benched next year for another option I’m sure you’ll be coming back here to comment about how my “nonsensical inaccurate take” turned out to be a premonition.

Go back and look at the records in 2016, and 2017 for Mahoney, and Culpepper, when we had a real QB coach who could teach in Lewis. Under Lewis they both were able to pass with success, so your argument is worthless.
Get a real QB coach and let him work with Garrett. We also need receivers who can catch the ball, they are the biggest problem.
You have had 2 coaches in Martin, and Gilbert who had no idea how to be a QB coach, just ask the folks from his previous job for Gilbert.

 

[Cuse181]

Shrader was converted because he’s a great athlete and wasn’t a fit for Leach’s offense. The previous coach, Joe Moorhead, who’s a pretty good offensive mind, played him at QB as a true frosh in the SEC no less. Stop being a .

Im not being a dick, im stating the obvious. He didn’t have the arm strength to even be in the QB room. He had middling success at Mississippi state with SEC level athletes, and he had middling stats at Syracuse with ACC level athletes, he’s a middle of the road QB at best and a complete dud at worst. No one has given me a single trait he has that makes him a serviceable QB of the future.