FSU vs The ACC

[DaCuse]

How do we know that the Big Ten does not want Florida State?

 

[richmondcuse03]

I believe that the conference agreement requires that it be resolved in a NC state court (possibly in Raleigh? Charlotte?). I believe that became specified when Maryland sued the ACC in a Federal court in MD when it wanted to leave.

They’re hoping to get a local court to make a ridiculous ruling that will become irrelevant when it gets moved. Florida judges do idiotic things every day.

 

[Hoo's That]

If I were FSU, I would pay the half billion dollars in pennies.

"We don't believe there's a half billion dollars there, put them in rolls."

 

[Chip]

Today???

Good lord, it's all they talk about. The fact that they can't get out of the GoR either means they have a terrible legal team, or they just know they can't.

I can't imagine the ACC hearing this and thinking "ok, well we should negotiate".

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

The landscape is vastly different then when Maryland left. An entire P5 conference just collapsed. Nobody is getting to just walk away from the ACC.

FSU was a party to drafting the GOR after Maryland left. There was no duress. The intention was to ensure stability. The GOR is working as drafted. There's a general premise with contracts that when there are disputes about contract language/terms, a preference is given to a party who did not draft the language (not an artful way of saying it, but i think you get it).

The Big 12 settled with Texas and Oklahoma for a reduced fee. The other schools probably saw some value in having a certain outcome, avoiding litigation, and getting the money sooner than later. The Texas private schools and OKST probably also had other "incentives" to allow Texas and Oklahoma to depart under collegial terms.

The majority of ACC schools have absolutely no incentive to let FSU just walk away right now. I think richmondcuse03 is spot on. Come up with $500m (an estimate $72m reduction) and we can discuss an exit strategy.

I also agree that FSU doesnt bring the requisite value as an add to the SEC right now; same for the Big 10.

 

[JimBoston]

This could be FSU's out and is news to me.

 

[HtownOrange]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/big12/2023/09/22/texas-oklahoma-big-12-sec-espn-role-realignment/70910157007/

According to this article they will have their 2024-25 money withheld ($33M each) when they are in the SEC anyway. This is out of the B12 commish's mouth. What is more credible than that?

Do you have a better, credible source? Most articles were speculation and B12 commissioner spin. Their commish spun the numbers. Each team now gets $33M a year, not $40M. First he counted that $7M each as money withheld in 2023-24 when in reality it applied to every B12 team to pay for the new teams. It had nothing to do with the exit. Second he continued to inflate the numbers by $7M each for 2024-25. Then they are not receiving money ($33M) in a year they are not in the B12. Again spin. Reality nothing is being withheld when he claims $80M for 2024-25.

So he counted $7M in reduced 2023-24 payout that applied to all B12 teams as a "fee" for the exit (total BS). He counted the 2024-25 payout as $40M when in reality it is now $33M (2023 $7M + 2024 $40M = $47M). However that fake $40M is for 2024-25, when Texas and Oklahoma will be in the SEC! That is where the reported $50M each came from. It is actually $33M, not $50M and is withheld money from a season where neither are in the B12. It is fuzzy accounting. They actually paid nada.

What do you believe Texas and Oklahoma paid or had withheld?

Sorry, the link does not work on my phone

As to your numbers, I don't know whether they are real or not. However, if OU and UT negotiated the exit fee agreement that is what they must pay. My guess is you don't work in the contracts world or the legal world. Suffice it to that the B12 would withhold payments in lieu of actual payments to OU and UT with each sending a new check back.

Think back to when SU and Pitt left the Big East, neither wrote a check, the Big East withheld monies owed to them. That is how the ga work. UT and OU will not get a share of the B12 payout next summer. That money will be withheld and count towards their agreed upon separation payment. Again, without a credible source, I am reluctant to believe interwebs regurgitation from people who don't know numbers. Taking quotes from valid sources out of context is useless.

We do know that UT and OU agreed to pay more than double the value of the TV rights to leave one year by early. UT, OU, and the B12 stated this and the numbers agreed. That is the level of source one should rely on.

Will money actually change hands? Probably not, but a paper trail will show how each party met their obligations and received their benefits.

 

[richmondcuse03]

The landscape is vastly different then when Maryland left. An entire P5 conference just collapsed. Nobody is getting to just walk away from the ACC.

FSU was a party to drafting the GOR after Maryland left. There was no duress. The intention was to ensure stability. The GOR is working as drafted. There's a general premise with contracts that when there are disputes about contract language/terms, a preference is given to a party who did not draft the language (not an artful way of saying it, but i think you get it).

The Big 12 settled with Texas and Oklahoma for a reduced fee. The other schools probably saw some value in having a certain outcome, avoiding litigation, and getting the money sooner than later. The Texas private schools and OKST probably also had other "incentives" to allow Texas and Oklahoma to depart under collegial terms.

The majority of ACC schools have absolutely no incentive to let FSU just walk away right now. I think richmondcuse03 is spot on. Come up with $500m (an estimate $72m reduction) and we can discuss an exit strategy.

I also agree that FSU doesnt bring the requisite value as an add to the SEC right now; same for the Big 10.

I've been told by someone in the know that the Big 10 has no desire to add FSU at any point in the near future. Given the deals the other schools got from Pac12 to join, not sure how they could even structure a contract that would appeal to other Big 10 schools AND justify FSU leaving. Schools add others when it makes them more money or protects them in other reasons. They don't share money just for the sake of doing it.

That leaves the SEC, which also can't pay enough to justify FSU addition. The contract landscape has changed drastically in the past few years. FSU is hoping for a miracle that doesn't exist anymore. Even if they somehow got a reduced penalty...what's the end game? The ACC isn't falling for the bluff. So they're stuck in litigation now and likely end up in the same place, with the rest of the schools holding issues against them. Have fun with that.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

This could be FSU's out and is news to me.

View attachment 235641

If that is the case why all the hubbub? Announce that you are leaving after the 2026-27 season. Then negotiate the ACC exit from 3 years withholding down to 2 years.

 

[richmondcuse03]

If that is the case why all the hubbub? Announce that you are leaving after the 2026-27 season. Then negotiate the ACC exit from 3 years withholding down to 2 years.

agree. if they thought that was a legit reason, they would have already used it. I'm sure they know their legal chances are slim so this boils down to either a miracle judicial ruling or trying to push for some kind of leverage to get the ACC/rest of the schools and ESPN to agree to a reduced penalty. But even then, they still need a home. They don't have one that makes financial sense. This all seems like posturing by whackos in Florida who think they're more important than they are and it's simply for political gain.

 

[DPCuse]

This could be FSU's out and is news to me.

View attachment 235641

So are they saying it’s only 3 years of media rights they need to negotiate plus the exit fee? But I still don’t understand where they think they are going? Is the Big XII that much better?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Sorry, the link does not work on my phone

As to your numbers, I don't know whether they are real or not. However, if OU and UT negotiated the exit fee agreement that is what they must pay. My guess is you don't work in the contracts world or the legal world. Suffice it to that the B12 would withhold payments in lieu of actual payments to OU and UT with each sending a new check back.

Think back to when SU and Pitt left the Big East, neither wrote a check, the Big East withheld monies owed to them. That is how the ga work. UT and OU will not get a share of the B12 payout next summer. That money will be withheld and count towards their agreed upon separation payment. Again, without a credible source, I am reluctant to believe interwebs regurgitation from people who don't know numbers. Taking quotes from valid sources out of context is useless.

We do know that UT and OU agreed to pay more than double the value of the TV rights to leave one year by early. UT, OU, and the B12 stated this and the numbers agreed. That is the level of source one should rely on.

Will money actually change hands? Probably not, but a paper trail will show how each party met their obligations and received their benefits.

No we don't know that UT and OU agreed to that. You are making assumptions based on the B12's spin.

I will make it simple. Answer these questions and just these questions, no tangents.

1. Are Texas and Oklahoma paying any money out of pocket to leave the B12? Yes or No. If yes, please provide supporting article.

2. Are Texas and Oklahoma having any money withheld from the 2023-24 payout? Yes or No. If yes, please provide supporting article.

 

[richmondcuse03]

So are they saying it’s only 3 years of media rights they need to negotiate plus the exit fee? But I still don’t understand where they think they are going? Is the Big XII that much better?

Can we trade WVU for FSU? FSU it's on you to negotiate a bigger TV contract for your own benefit in your new contract.

 

[HtownOrange]

It is an interesting argument to say, hey, there is precedent to the ACC only collecting about half of a schools withdrawal penalty 10 years ago. So why isn’t that being offered to FSU? Even if it was $300M, split among 15 schools that would equate to $20M per school. That doesn’t change the world. That doesn’t even build a wing in a building anymore.

The exit fee goes to the conference and is equal to three times the current year TV revenue payout, approximately $120MM if FSU announced before the next sports calendar year. The remainder, and at this time the bulk of the money, is to buy back their TV rights. ESPN owns the TV rights.

There is no incentive by any party except FSU to get out early and to lower the cost of leaving.

Regarding Maryland, if I recall Maryland rejected the increased conference exit fee. (I will defer to a credible source) As the fee increased before Maryland left, there was a compromise. FSU voted for this increase and may have lobbied for it, the fee has been in place for several years, FSU lobbied for the TV deal, FSU is not likely to get the same deal as Maryland.

Further, as has been discussed, there is no incentive for ESPN to weaken one money making property (ACC) to pay more and move FSU to another money making property (SEC). Further, there is no incentive for ESPN to cooperate with FSU to go to a competitor (BTN/Fox). FSU is not really in the driver's seat, they are along for the ride and can only scream annoying songs like kids on a bus trip - which is what they are acting like. Ironically, FSU is showing prospective conferences what the prospective conference can expect if they allow FSU to join them.

And this does not begin to discuss the additional legal issues id ESPN and/or Fox are working deals behind everyone's back.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/39167937/florida-state-sue-acc-grant-rights-withdrawal-fee&ved=2ahUKEwjykMj9t6ODAxUlMEQIHRRoAHEQvOMEKAB6BAgTEAE&usg=AOvVaw3Lj2uPt18WqLJfoVjeEVmg

Buncha cowards.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Found the FSU attorney…

 

[HtownOrange]

The ACC should withhold money from FSU to cover lawyer fees.

Also now that FSU is announcing their withdrawal, the rest of the ACC should vote FSU ineligible for ACC Championships. So next year if FSU is 10-2 they need to get in as an at large because they aren't in the ACC CG.

FSU made their bed there is no reason for the ACC to play nice.

I like the idea; though, I am not sure they can do so, prima facially speaking.

 

[CuseBlood44]

Actually you’re still being laughed at.

How would all of you know it all’s like your crow prepared? Roasted, smoked, baked?

 

[Acesn8s]

At the end of the day, I just want Syracuse to have a seat at the table, I will
Lmao if FSU get destroyed in court, BUT if they win and the Acc dies Syracuse needs to do whatever to get into the Big 12

 

[Willy75]

The landscape is vastly different then when Maryland left. An entire P5 conference just collapsed. Nobody is getting to just walk away from the ACC.

FSU was a party to drafting the GOR after Maryland left. There was no duress. The intention was to ensure stability. The GOR is working as drafted. There's a general premise with contracts that when there are disputes about contract language/terms, a preference is given to a party who did not draft the language (not an artful way of saying it, but i think you get it).

The Big 12 settled with Texas and Oklahoma for a reduced fee. The other schools probably saw some value in having a certain outcome, avoiding litigation, and getting the money sooner than later. The Texas private schools and OKST probably also had other "incentives" to allow Texas and Oklahoma to depart under collegial terms.

The majority of ACC schools have absolutely no incentive to let FSU just walk away right now. I think richmondcuse03 is spot on. Come up with $500m (an estimate $72m reduction) and we can discuss an exit strategy.

I also agree that FSU doesnt bring the requisite value as an add to the SEC right now; same for the Big 10.

Good succinct analysis. You could also add that others acted in reliance on their having signed onto the GOR.

 

[DPCuse]

So 8 conference away games in football for FSU next year? Lol

 

[gmoney44]

I hope the horrible ACC refs give them the “special treatment” they usually reserve for SU now.

 

[Willy75]

At the end of the day, I just want Syracuse to have a seat at the table, I will
Lmao if FSU get destroyed in court, BUT if they win and the Acc dies Syracuse needs to do whatever to get into the Big 12

That's for another day, but personally I have no desire at all for SU to be part of the Big 12. I think there's room for another conference comprised primarily of private schools.

 

[qdawgg]

How would all of you know it all’s like your crow prepared? Roasted, smoked, baked?

It’s funny all of this is still going over your head. You think having Brett post you want to leave on Twitter amounts to leaving with no severe financial penalty. It’s laughable. There is no crow necessary. This is playing out like everyone on here expected. FSU has no bargaining power or legal standing so they’re hoping the Twitter universe will all feel sorry for them. Maybe they’ll win the public outcry battle, I doubt it because nobody cares.

Can someone start FSU a gofundme

 

[JimBoston]

FSU is laying out their basis to sue and there seems to be some merit. I never knew that the ACC media contract is only good until 2027 and ESPN has the option to extend to 2036. And, there seems to be some ACC bylaw issues that they could sue over.

I'm sure many ACC schools, including Syracuse, have been or will be contacting other conferences to see what's available to them. It will be an interesting 2024.