FSU vs The ACC | Page 116 | Syracusefan.com
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FSU vs The ACC

HtownOrange said:
Woad forgets the B1G has Rutgers and Northwestern. Even UNL has been a body bag game since they joined. The SEC has Vandy and Kentucky, even Mizzou and the Mississippi schools aren't anything to brag about. Built in tomato soup cans for the big boys, all conferences have them. Sure, they may have a good year now and then but rarely do they threaten the powers that be in the conference.
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I was responding more to his comment about not playing Division 1 AA teams, but your observation is also true.
 
WoadBlue said:
Belichick will draw viewers, no doubt. But UNC must play people who matter, or those viewers will start going away. 1AA teams do NOT matter. Neither do half or more of the G5. Wake does not matter. Wake is nothing more than Rice that got lucky because the ACC was better run than the SWC and did not have Texas.
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Having 4 NC based teams does dilute the contract. I'm not sure we can do anything about adjusting the numbers. Going to have to wait 4 more years IMHO.
 
TexanMark said:
Having 4 NC based teams does dilute the contract. I'm not sure we can do anything about adjusting the numbers. Going to have to wait 4 more years IMHO.
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Having 6 from 2 states without a lot of people NC and Virginia automatically puts the ACC in a big hole.
 
HtownOrange said:
Woad forgets the B1G has Rutgers and Northwestern. Even UNL has been a body bag game since they joined. The SEC has Vandy and Kentucky, even Mizzou and the Mississippi schools aren't anything to brag about. Built in tomato soup cans for the big boys, all conferences have them. Sure, they may have a good year now and then but rarely do they threaten the powers that be in the conference.
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Apple and oranges, or to be more precise: 1AA teams are not even fruit. Maybe leaves of fruit plants.

You are equating the weak sisters in play, and usually TV drawing power, of all leagues. And that is not the issue. Because each game has both a Winner and a Loser, and in every league, over time teams emerge to become primarily Winners or Losers, all leagues have both.

The issue is total TV viewers for leagues first and then also for each league member. That is what TV pays for. TV pays for viewers. 19 of 20 years, Ole Miss vs. Miss St will draw more TV viewers than Cuse vs. BC.

Perhaps making the point about 1AA teams will strike with you if we make it very close to hime.

Cuse vs 1AA Albany won't draw any number of TV viewers, but because Rutgers is a HUGE state Flagship and Land Grant school and is in the BT, Cuse vs Rutgers will have a nice TV audience. Not huge (except if perhaps both enter the game 7-1 and ranked in the Top 15) , but good numbers.

The ACC must find ways to draw significantly larger numbers of TV viewers. The money disparity is already large, and widely projected growth in that disparity is terrifying.
 
baggerbob said:
Having 6 from 2 states without a lot of people NC and Virginia automatically puts the ACC in a big hole.
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It is not the number people in any state that determines the number of viewers. If that were the case, Syracuse would draw as many TV viewers for football as Ohio St.

And on the other end, it would mean that Arkansas would have a teeny little bitty stadium holding 30,000, which is rarely ever sold out.

Your thinking makes good sense from an NFL perspective and almost none from a CFB perspective.
 
WoadBlue said:
Apple and oranges, or to be more precise: 1AA teams are not even fruit. Maybe leaves of fruit plants.

You are equating the weak sisters in play, and usually TV drawing power, of all leagues. And that is not the issue. Because each game has both a Winner and a Loser, and in every league, over time teams emerge to become primarily Winners or Losers, all leagues have both.

The issue is total TV viewers for leagues first and then also for each league member. That is what TV pays for. TV pays for viewers. 19 of 20 years, Ole Miss vs. Miss St will draw more TV viewers than Cuse vs. BC.

Perhaps making the point about 1AA teams will strike with you if we make it very close to hime.

Cuse vs 1AA Albany won't draw any number of TV viewers, but because Rutgers is a HUGE state Flagship and Land Grant school and is in the BT, Cuse vs Rutgers will have a nice TV audience. Not huge (except if perhaps both enter the game 7-1 and ranked in the Top 15) , but good numbers.

The ACC must find ways to draw significantly larger numbers of TV viewers. The money disparity is already large, and widely projected growth in that disparity is terrifying.
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The Ohio State University plays Grambling and Ohio this fall. See every B1G and SEC schedule. We can go on, but the scheduling you are complaining of is practiced everywhere, the gist of my point.

Viewership is the issue, nobody disputes that. The ACC teams lack the viewership of some of the of the SEC and the B1G teams.

Playing a body bag game is not what makes a conference fail. My comment about the lesser schools in the B1G and SEC were to show every conference has built in body bag games and the teams are not playing a full slate of top 10 teams. Add that to DIaa teams they play and you should equally whine about them, but you make this an ONLY-ACC issue ... On a Syracuse board that sees their team play virtually any school and has a history of doing so, even to our detriment.

Start by convincing your Tar Heels to play tougher schedules. Future North Carolina Football Schedules | FBSchedules.com
 
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HtownOrange said:
The Ohio State University plays Grambling and Ohio this fall. See every B1G and SEC schedule. We can go on, but the scheduling you are complaining of is practiced everywhere, the gist of my point.

Viewership is the issue, nobody disputes that. The ACC teams lack the viewership of some of the of the SEC and the B1G teams.

Playing a body bag game is not what makes a conference fail. My comment about the lesser schools in the B1G and SEC were to show every conference has built in body bag games and the teams are not playing a full slate of top 10 teams. Add that to DIaa teams they play and you should equally whine about them, but you make this an ONLY-ACC issue ... On a Syracuse board that sees their team play virtually any school and has a history of doing so, even to our detriment.

Start by convincing your Tar Heels to play tougher schedules. Future North Carolina Football Schedules | FBSchedules.com
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Lots of very poor people justify continuing to live as they do - not trying to cut corners on spending, not taking a new job because it alone can't make them hit the next tax bracket, etc. - because they see that the rich do not do such things. And so they make certain they remain as they are.

The guy making 500K a year does not need to have a Staycation in order to live in a very nice, safe neighborhood with a very well respected and safe school district. But the guy who makes 80K per year will either cut every possible corner of spending, and that may include having nothing but a Staycation every single year, or else he lives in an area with unsafe and poor schools, or perhaps he chooses to live in an area far away from seemingly everything because its is safe and affordable.

The SEC and BT are the already super rich. They literally can afford to pass up many opportunities to add to their TV numbers because those numbers are very high regardless of opponents. Ohio St vs Ohio U will draw more viewers than Cuse vs BC almost any year because Ohio St is Ohio St. So Ohio St can schedule really weak OOC foes and still have TV numbers through the roof. And when a league has multiple Ohio States, that league will be Super rich and have huge TV numbers even when OOC games tend to be against 1AA schools, the MAC, and CUSA, and even when that league cannot win a national Championship for a decade or more.

Everybody else must work overtime to stay afloat trying to compete against the super rich. Those who fail at that contest in this era are doomed to some level of destruction. The Pac was the Home league of the Rose Bowl, and see what it is now. Lack of TV viewers did that.

SEC and BT are guaranteed huge numbers of viewers because of the schools they have. The ACC does not have nearly enough such schools. In fact, the ACC has no school that is equal to a Texas or Bama or LSU or Ohio St or Michigan, or Penn St, etc. FSU is in that next rung down, with Clemson perhaps also in that rung.

So the ACC, which has a lower bottom than either SEC or BT, will either do things that secure larger TV audiences, or by that 2036 date the ACC will then either become the next SWC (totally dead ) or the next Pac (totally gutted and reduced in status permanently).

I have spent decades making the case on UNC boards for UNC football to schedule as aggressively in OOC as can be arranged - including to play the Home game at a neutral site if that is what it takes to the most esteemed names in the sport often.
 
Moontan said:
No, it's not.

It's "THE Ohio State!".
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So Ohio St is not Ohio St in the sense I mean?

Denying reality only guarantees the show gets worse in every way. ND is ND. Bama is Bama, Texas is Texas, Michigan is Michigan. Penn St is Penn St. LSU is LSU. UGA is UGA. Etc. Certain schools always make certain that their foes draw TV viewers than against any other foe save anotehr from that super elite group.

And the matter is not based at all on Wins. 4-4 ND against 5-3 BC is aways going to draw more viewers than 6-2 Rutgers vs. 7-1 Army. And 4-4 ND vs. 4-4 FSU always will draw many more viewers than 4-4 ND vs 5-3 BC.

Over time a school can use winning consistently and then winning BIG to increase is baseline TV drawing power. But it takes time, not a couple years, but a couple decades. FSU in 1979 had no discernible TV drawing power by outself. Then FSU kept winning. By the time FSU joined the ACC, it was a massive TV draw. It then was in the middle of an unheard 14 year run of finishing in the Top 5. That is what it took for FSU - a HUGE state school in a football crazed state - to make itself one of the major annual Top TV draws.

So if you think BC, a small private school in a state - MA - that cares maybe half a about CFB and even less than that about HS football, and produces next to nothing in CFB top talent, can be a major TV draw just from back to back 11-1 teams, you are totally out of the loop to outer reality. BC would need even more than 14 consecutive Top 5 national finishes to earn that level of TV drawing power.

That is what the ACC faces. We have time, but not forever. And only some very bold moves will save the ACC to compete at the top tier of CFB successfully after that mid 2030s period.
 
WoadBlue said:
So Ohio St is not Ohio St in the sense I mean?

Denying reality only guarantees the show gets worse in every way. ND is ND. Bama is Bama, Texas is Texas, Michigan is Michigan. Penn St is Penn St. LSU is LSU. UGA is UGA. Etc. Certain schools always make certain that their foes draw TV viewers than against any other foe save anotehr from that super elite group.

And the matter is not based at all on Wins. 4-4 ND against 5-3 BC is aways going to draw more viewers than 6-2 Rutgers vs. 7-1 Army. And 4-4 ND vs. 4-4 FSU always will draw many more viewers than 4-4 ND vs 5-3 BC.

Over time a school can use winning consistently and then winning BIG to increase is baseline TV drawing power. But it takes time, not a couple years, but a couple decades. FSU in 1979 had no discernible TV drawing power by outself. Then FSU kept winning. By the time FSU joined the ACC, it was a massive TV draw. It then was in the middle of an unheard 14 year run of finishing in the Top 5. That is what it took for FSU - a HUGE state school in a football crazed state - to make itself one of the major annual Top TV draws.

So if you think BC, a small private school in a state - MA - that cares maybe half a about CFB and even less than that about HS football, and produces next to nothing in CFB top talent, can be a major TV draw just from back to back 11-1 teams, you are totally out of the loop to outer reality. BC would need even more than 14 consecutive Top 5 national finishes to earn that level of TV drawing power.

That is what the ACC faces. We have time, but not forever. And only some very bold moves will save the ACC to compete at the top tier of CFB successfully after that mid 2030s period.
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He was making a joke.

miss-the-point.jpg
 
IthacaMatt said:
He was making a joke.

View attachment 253238
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Hard to tell when people from the miortheast make jokes and when they think that being in the northeast actually helps create football wealth and power. The ACC is many dollars short and many days late even getting near the ability to discern the actual landscape.

Texas State, which not long ago was a D2 program, not 1AA/FCS but D2, is now in the Pac. That is what happens when a league that was once Major in every sense get gutted. If the name survives, the status will be dead and buried. Both SEC and BT are threatened by a fully strong ACC, one stronger than it is now, but have no fear whatsoever of a Big 12. They are not going to try to carve it up. They are going to try to use their money advantage to destroy the ACC. They will not care a jot if the Big 12 out of that gets into NC with NCSU or gets more basketball power with Syracuse and Louisville or gets a smaller state school that once was a National Power in football like GT.

The most valuable Big 12 schools in what makes football wealth and power can help the ACC, perhaps a good deal, but leftover ACC schools that are wanted by neither SEC nor BT will not help the Big 12 bridge any gap of wealth or power with the SEC and BT.

Those are the stakes. All of intercollegiate athletics will feel deeply what eventually becomes the Top Tier of CFB, because that Top Tier will close its ranks. It will not be acting to recognize the new Pac as anything in its world. And the odds are fairly good that it will not even tolerate the Big 12 in its world if it has destroyed the ACC.
 
In case you’re not sure, nobody in the northeast believes that our region is a college football hotbed. What we do know is that with the right coach and institutional support we can compete, maybe even at the highest level. Currently, in my opinion, that describes Syracuse football. We will see how it all works out.
 
WoadBlue said:
Hard to tell when people from the miortheast make jokes and when they think that being in the northeast actually helps create football wealth and power. The ACC is many dollars short and many days late even getting near the ability to discern the actual landscape.
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Thanks for the lecture.

I have never heard anyone from the northeast say that being in the northeast actually helps create football wealth and power. Anyone who does isn't worth taking the time it takes them to say it. And they would most certainly be in the super-minority.

1751328063598.jpeg
 
Moontan said:
No, it's not.

It's "THE Ohio State!".
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WoadBlue said:
So Ohio St is not Ohio St in the sense I mean?
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WoadBlue, this post is a SyracuseFan.com lesson:

<SyracuseFan.com-Lesson>

When people use this font, you should not take the text using that font seriously.
It can be used for humor or other things. Just don't take it seriously.

</SyracuseFan.com-EndOfLesson>
 
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WoadBlue said:
Hard to tell when people from the miortheast make jokes and when they think that being in the northeast actually helps create football wealth and power. The ACC is many dollars short and many days late even getting near the ability to discern the actual landscape.
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I think pretty much everyone who is a sports fan who lives in the Northeast knows and understands that the big cities are pro sports towns. Pro sports eat up the media coverage and viewership.

The Northeast only really matters in the world of college sports contracts for basketball, and basketball doesn't really matter economically to ESPN and Fox, despite providing them with ton of broadcast inventory for half the school year.

That said, there is room for a small handful of Northeastern football schools to be important nationally. Historically, Syracuse has been one of those schools, along with Pitt, BC and Penn State. WVU, too, used to play us all, and was part of our rivalry group. Nobody else matters in football.

But of course, many ACC schools literally don't matter in football.

So, here we are. Thanks for the lectures. We have a pretty significant handful of people on our board who work in sports broadcasting, so we're probably a lot better informed than you think we are.
 
IthacaMatt said:
I think pretty much everyone who is a sports fan who lives in the Northeast knows and understands that the big cities are pro sports towns. Pro sports eat up the media coverage and viewership.

The Northeast only really matters in the world of college sports contracts for basketball, and basketball doesn't really matter economically to ESPN and Fox, despite providing them with ton of broadcast inventory for half the school year.

That said, there is room for a small handful of Northeastern football schools to be important nationally. Historically, Syracuse has been one of those schools, along with Pitt, BC and Penn State. WVU, too, used to play us all, and was part of our rivalry group. Nobody else matters in football.

But of course, many ACC schools literally don't matter in football.

So, here we are. Thanks for the lectures. We have a pretty significant handful of people on our board who work in sports broadcasting, so we're probably a lot better informed than you think we are.
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You’re implying he thinks … bad assumption.
 
IthacaMatt said:
I think pretty much everyone who is a sports fan who lives in the Northeast knows and understands that the big cities are pro sports towns. Pro sports eat up the media coverage and viewership.

The Northeast only really matters in the world of college sports contracts for basketball, and basketball doesn't really matter economically to ESPN and Fox, despite providing them with ton of broadcast inventory for half the school year.

That said, there is room for a small handful of Northeastern football schools to be important nationally. Historically, Syracuse has been one of those schools, along with Pitt, BC and Penn State. WVU, too, used to play us all, and was part of our rivalry group. Nobody else matters in football.

But of course, many ACC schools literally don't matter in football.

So, here we are. Thanks for the lectures. We have a pretty significant handful of people on our board who work in sports broadcasting, so we're probably a lot better informed than you think we are.
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Bless your heart, you northerners don't know anything, dur dur dur.
 
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