Future Campus Framework Presentation...

[Capt. Tuttle]

building a tunnel would require demolition of more buildings than the other two choices from what I've read about the project. The artist renderings are based on what has been released about the project so far, the building owners have already been contacted by the DOT to attend meetings about it last week.

I'm afraid the decision will likely come down to whoever gives Driscoll the best financial deal for himself and his family.

Fixed.

 

[xc84]

If the blvd wins out, the big losers will be commuters living in the southwestern suburbs (e.g. Onondaga Hill) who have to cross through the city to get to their jobs. If the western bypass existed, I think the boulevard would be a no-brainer.

I don't think it will be that big of a loss. Part of the redesign will still be an ramps to/from the Boulevard to 690E and W. The boulevard will make it much easier to cross the city than today's streets and depending on direction, maybe better that 81. Also, much of the boulevard design remains a highway ( from current 481 interchanges into downtown). The boulevard itself is only a 1.3 mile stretch. No matter the design, there will be some that have things improved and some not as much as they would like.

 

[SU68]

Why would it cause a perm. traffic jam since 81 is rerouted to where 481 is?

The proposal would designate the current 81 through the city to be a state highway but not 81. There are also 2 parts to this "former 81". One is that most will remain a "highway" until it gets to downtown where it will let out as a grade-level boulevard where current streets exist. Better configuration and organization of all streets will result in improved downtown traffic flow due to increased capacity.

Here is a good link: I-81 : Virtual Public Meeting

Okay, that makes sense. Will north-bound traffic on I-81 have to drive around the city on 481 to get to the Thruway?

 

[xc84]

Okay, that makes sense. Will north-bound traffic on I-81 have to drive around the city on 481 to get to the Thruway?

They would do that or drive through the city on the 1.3 miles of boulevard. Depending on where they need to go, they might already take 481 to the Thruway (if they are going e.g. to Utica). If they are going West, they might have to drive about 3/4 miles on the boulevard to get to a new 690W on-ramp and get to the Thruway from there. It all depends on where they are going... just like now.

Look at the modeling: I-81 : Virtual Public Meeting

 

[FrancoPizza]

Instead of spending 3 years studying different proposals, they could just finish the western bypass - it's really only a quarter-loop that remains unconnected from Fairmount Fair to Brighton/481 interchange. I know it's a fantasy, just saying there's been a ton of wasted energy in this process.

 

[CuseOnly]

If the blvd wins out, the big losers will be commuters living in the southwestern suburbs (e.g. Onondaga Hill) who have to cross through the city to get to their jobs. If the western bypass existed, I think the boulevard would be a no-brainer.

Would those folks really be losers though? Going through the city would be much easier with folks from the other parts of the burbs being re-routed around the city on 690 and the 81 (481). Receiving a big chunk of the traffic that would normally be going through on the viaduct.

 

[xc84]

Instead of spending 3 years studying different proposals, they could just finish the western bypass - it's really only a quarter-loop that remains unconnected from Fairmount Fair to Brighton/481 interchange. I know it's a fantasy, just saying there's been a ton of wasted energy in this process.

Not sure they can anymore due to development that has occurred since the original prospects. Even with that though, they still need to replace/remove the current 81 because the reason they are doing so it has past its useful lifespan. The Western bypass would make the boulevard choice easier though. There is also this...

 

[DownTheField]

If the blvd wins out, the big losers will be commuters living in the southwestern suburbs (e.g. Onondaga Hill) who have to cross through the city to get to their jobs. If the western bypass existed, I think the boulevard would be a no-brainer.

Couldn't they also get on 481 right off the Seneca Tpk and get out East just as quickly? Or do you mean people who work right in the city? A sacrifice of a few extra minutes added on to the commute will be worth it if it means that we can get rid of that overpass through the middle of the city.

 

[xc84]

Couldn't they also get on 481 right off the Seneca Tpk and get out East just as quickly? Or do you mean people who work right in the city? A sacrifice of a few extra minutes added on to the commute will be worth it if it means that we can get rid of that overpass through the middle of the city.

If you work in the city, I don't think there is a downgrade at all. You take the highway which goes to an at-grade boulevard downtown which will have much more capacity than current downtown streets.

 

[OttoMets]

Couldn't they also get on 481 right off the Seneca Tpk and get out East just as quickly? Or do you mean people who work right in the city? A sacrifice of a few extra minutes added on to the commute will be worth it if it means that we can get rid of that overpass through the middle of the city.

Right. I'm sure people who live southwest of the city will lose a few minutes on trips to the airport, but that's the trade-off you make when you live out in the sticks: you're choosing to have more than a 15-minute drive to local destinations. Not the end of the world, and something that shouldn't be a factor in regional policy planning.

 

[Jake]

It has already pretty much been shot down and it would cost too much. They are "considering" it just like they are "considering" just maintaining the current viaduct. From what I have read, a tunnel will almost be triple what the boulevard would be.

The water table is also an issue.

 

[Jake]

Wasn't there also something about ongoing maintenance costs due to contacting the local water table?

yessir.

 

[DownTheField]

Right. I'm sure people who live southwest of the city will lose a few minutes on trips to the airport, but that's the trade-off you make when you live out in the sticks: you're choosing to have more than a 15-minute drive to local destinations. Not the end of the world, and something that shouldn't be a factor in regional policy planning.

It seems like the biggest opponents to the boulevard are people who live in the suburbs who want to get through the city as quickly as possible and don't like the idea of going around it on 481 or adding a few extra minutes driving through it. Most of those people have no interest in ever going downtown where you can't park in a parking lot right next to a chain store or restaurant.

This is a decision that will impact the future of downtown, and people who are only interested in getting through the city as quickly as possible should not have a say in it. There is no reason for truckers or people traveling through the city to literally drive through the city; that's why there are circles and beltways around every other metropolitan area.

 

[oldpinepoint]

yessir.

Tunnel is stupid, who remembers the Big Dig in Boston. that was the biggest Custer *** ever and was so over budget and missed the completion date by like a decade. Let's keep it simple and for once let's not do what congeal wants.

 

[TexanMark]

Do the boulevard and finish the Western connection which should've been finished 35 years ago

 

[TexanMark]

And while they are at it extend I690 to Chittenango

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Do the boulevard and finish the Western connection which should've been finished 35 years ago

And while they are at it extend I690 to Chittenango

Both projects were finished in the alternate Fringe universe.

Of course, both were unnecessary since we all travel by blimps.

 

[xc84]

And while they are at it extend I690 to Chittenango

Houses and a golf course in the way now.

 

[FrancoPizza]

There is no reason for people traveling through the city to literally drive through the city; that's why there are circles and beltways around every other metropolitan area.

Other cities have beltways that form a complete loop. We have a half-completed loop. It's easy to say "go take 481" when you're not the one who would have to drive out of the way just to reach your job in Cicero.

 

[KellySyracuse]

Other cities have beltways that form a complete loop. We have a half-completed loop. It's easy to say "go take 481" when you're not the one who would have to drive out of the way just to reach your job in Cicero.

But 481N takes you to the thruway to 81, or exit at North Syracuse or exit to 81N to Cicero. Why would you want to be stuck either in a tunnel or on top of a viaduct if there is an accident with no place to go?

 

[xc84]

Other cities have beltways that form a complete loop. We have a half-completed loop. It's easy to say "go take 481" when you're not the one who would have to drive out of the way just to reach your job in Cicero.

Not a good example. The half-loop is as good as a full loop in that case.

 

[CuseOnly]

Not a good example. The half-loop is as good as a full loop in that case.

Terrible example, 481 North or South from anywhere to 81 is about a 3 min drive to cicero no matter where you are near the city.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Interstate 690 project: NY to seize 4 Syracuse properties by eminent domain

 

[dooey139]

Interstate 690 project: NY to seize 4 Syracuse properties by eminent domain

That seems to have come out of nowhere, no?

 

[Cheriehoop]

The biggest issues with route 81 is the crazy downtown junctures with 690. The bottleneck is at the Adams St exit which is exacerbated by the route 690 entrance right before that Adams St southbound exit. Northbound again the worst problem is the juncture with 690 shortly after the Harrison St entrance. Otherwise 81 has really never been an issue. If the 690 junctures with 81 were moved from the busiest downtown areas, I think 95% of what Syracuse considers traffic jams would go away. 690 is as much a problem as 81 and divides the city just as much, dividing the city into quadrants.