Future Campus Framework Presentation...

[Cheriehoop]

This dismissal is poor form. You must not be in marketing.

If I'm a competitor, I beat the hell of that drum. Commercials. All my printed material. Website. I look to sponsor something else to get my name on it so announcers have to say it.

Kind of like the Pepsi arena not selling Pepsi there. Bet Coke would love to have rights in the Pepsi arena or Pepsi Center.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

It's a by-product of stability. Basketball luckily has had JB as an assistant or HC for over 45 years, football hasn't had it the past 25 + years.

Yes, but, I am saying, bridging the gap. You see the Floyd Little's and the Chris Gedney's, but what about the Donovan McNabb's and the Marvin Graves and other guys older and younger. They gave their heart for Syracuse football but now it is almost dead to them.

They should be publicly showing their support to the school they represented. No matter if the team is winning or losing or who the coach is. Now, it could be happening, but if it is, it is happening very quietly and in very small doses.

 

[zjscuse]

Yes, but, I am saying, bridging the gap. You see the Floyd Little's and the Chris Gedney's, but what about the Donovan McNabb's and the Marvin Graves and other guys older and younger. They gave their heart for Syracuse football but now it is almost dead to them.

They should be publicly showing their support to the school they represented. No matter if the team is winning or losing or who the coach is. Now, it could be happening, but if it is, it is happening very quietly and in very small doses.

Well if you would listen to cusecast by mike mcallister you would hear the i terview with graves.. he now runs a restaurant in dc and still VERY much bleeds Orange...

 

[reedny]

Screwed? Screwed? The University got screwed?

Carrier gave them a$2.4M gift (in 1979 Dollars) when they needed it badly. And that $2.4M is worth $7M in 2016 dollars.

The University and some of its supporters want to reneg on the deal and get more money? Instead of gratitude for the $2.4 M gift, what we hear is a sense of entitlement for more. The value went up, so we are entitled to more, is what I hear.

It's like selling someone a house and having that house go way up in value for the new owners. None of that money the new owners made is yours.

If I'm Carrier, my bottom number for relinquishing the name is $7M And they can wash their hands of the deal. Of course, they might also want to write a letter and publish it warning other corporations not to get involved with SU.

Yep, I'd say screwed is the right term. A couple million for 35 years ... when the value was 10 times that. And Carrier responded by moving its (most of its) operations to Mehico. NICE.

 

[Cusefan78]

Yep, I'd say screwed is the right term. A couple million for 35 years ... when the value was 10 times that. And Carrier responded by moving its (most of its) operations to Mehico. NICE.

Yep, I'd say screwed is the right term. A couple million for 35 years ... when the value was 10 times that. And Carrier responded by moving its (most of its) operations to Mehico. NICE.

I don't really know how anyone can fully blame carrier or any of the big companies that once were here for moving. Regulations and taxes have decimated businesses here for years. Drive by carrier or gm circle and all you see are abandoned lots and businesses. Look at Remington. They get crapped on left and right. Does anyone blame them for moving south. I see both sides. The university is here to make money so if they can get carrier to walk away or renegotiate that's great but they should not go to court over this. Carrier was there when they needed it and that should be good considered and honored.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

[QUOTE="cliftonparksufan, post: 1894590, mem

They should be publicly showing their support to the school they represented. [/QUOTE]

Why? They owe the school nothing. Their bargain was complete when their eligibility was up.

 

[CuseOnly]

Screwed? Screwed? The University got screwed?

Carrier gave them a$2.4M gift (in 1979 Dollars) when they needed it badly. And that $2.4M is worth $7M in 2016 dollars.

The University and some of its supporters want to reneg on the deal and get more money? Instead of gratitude for the $2.4 M gift, what we hear is a sense of entitlement for more. The value went up, so we are entitled to more, is what I hear.

It's like selling someone a house and having that house go way up in value for the new owners. None of that money the new owners made is yours.

If I'm Carrier, my bottom number for relinquishing the name is $7M And they can wash their hands of the deal. Of course, they might also want to write a letter and publish it warning other corporations not to get involved with SU.

This would be pretty embarrassing for SU wouldn't it? Embarrassing enough that they wouldn't seek more money? Maybe.

But from your argument before, Carrier wouldn't be embarrassed enough by having Trane or some other equipment powering the AC in the Carrier Dome...announced as a naming gift for every home basketball and football game in perpetuity as long as the equipment was installed.

Aren't you using the same logic that I was to prove my point with this statement? Essentially, yes.

Your other argument was that basically Carrier won't care and the University doesn't have a choice as to what equipment is used, the contractor chooses. On that I call BS. I sell to several multi Billion Dollar companies through some multi Billion Dollar companies as well as K-12 and higher ed and the customer can always dictate to the contractor what equipment is used per their specs and operating environment. If that contractor won't do it, they move on to another contractor that does.

 

[reedny]

I don't really know how anyone can fully blame carrier or any of the big companies that once were here for moving. Regulations and taxes have decimated businesses here for years. Drive by carrier or gm circle and all you see are abandoned lots and businesses. Look at Remington. They get crapped on left and right. Does anyone blame them for moving south. I see both sides. The university is here to make money so if they can get carrier to walk away or renegotiate that's great but they should not go to court over this. Carrier was there when they needed it and that should be good considered and honored.

>
Lots of companies are located domestically and are doing very well. I'll let the corporate/capital experts chime in on what we could do to bring the cash back, and provide incentives for businesses to relocate here. But if the reason for going to mehico is lax environmental standards and 12 year olds working 10 hour days ... pretty hard to give companies a "thumbs up" for social responsibility.

 

[Cusefan78]

>
Lots of companies are located domestically and are doing very well. I'll let the corporate/capital experts chime in on what we could do to bring the cash back, and provide incentives for businesses to relocate here. But if the reason for going to mehico is lax environmental standards and 12 year olds working 10 hour days ... pretty hard to give companies a "thumbs up" for social responsibility.

Not to make this into a political post but not all companies are leaving the country. The common denominator is they are leaving nys. As for the Mexico move and really have a hard time standing behind that. corporate greed is also out of control.

 

[Bayside44]

Does GE not advertise GE? They don't have to advertise power plants. Just like Ford is not advertising trucks when it put its name on Ford Field in Detroit.

You can't lift the hammer, can you...

 

[Bayside44]

Screwed? Screwed? The University got screwed?

Carrier gave them a$2.4M gift (in 1979 Dollars) when they needed it badly. And that $2.4M is worth $7M in 2016 dollars.

The University and some of its supporters want to reneg on the deal and get more money? Instead of gratitude for the $2.4 M gift, what we hear is a sense of entitlement for more. The value went up, so we are entitled to more, is what I hear.

It's like selling someone a house and having that house go way up in value for the new owners. None of that money the new owners made is yours.

If I'm Carrier, my bottom number for relinquishing the name is $7M And they can wash their hands of the deal. Of course, they might also want to write a letter and publish it warning other corporations not to get involved with SU.

It seems that when Carrier did it, the equivalent would be naming a library on campus.

Times have clearly changed.

 

[Townie72]

This would be pretty embarrassing for SU wouldn't it? Embarrassing enough that they wouldn't seek more money? Maybe.

But from your argument before, Carrier wouldn't be embarrassed enough by having Trane or some other equipment powering the AC in the Carrier Dome...announced as a naming gift for every home basketball and football game in perpetuity as long as the equipment was installed.

Aren't you using the same logic that I was to prove my point with this statement? Essentially, yes.

Your other argument was that basically Carrier won't care and the University doesn't have a choice as to what equipment is used, the contractor chooses. On that I call BS. I sell to several multi Billion Dollar companies through some multi Billion Dollar companies as well as K-12 and higher ed and the customer can always dictate to the contractor what equipment is used per their specs and operating environment. If that contractor won't do it, they move on to another contractor that does.

First of all no one is going to announce before every game what company manufactured the HVAC equipment in the building. Your point is ridiculous. It's never going to happen. And Carrier will know that.

And even if they did, no one would care. Because HVAC systems aren't a consumer good and if there are 35,000 people at a football game there might be five people involved in the procurement of HVAC systems.

On on the procurement process, although an owner can tell the Engineer what equipment to specify or can actually buy the equipment themselves, this rarely happens and is filled with potential problems when it does. Universities generally lack the expertise to do this.

The University doesn't have a leg to stand on in this. The best they can do is buy Carrier out. If Carrier doesn't want to sell, the University will have to pound sand.

But Carrier probably will agree to some sort of arrangement. After all, the Carrier name on that building isn't all that valuable to them. But I wouldn't give it away. Like I said, if I were them I'd ask for not a penny less than the current value of the $2.4M which is $7 M.

 

[Townie72]

Not to make this into a political post but not all companies are leaving the country. The common denominator is they are leaving nys. As for the Mexico move and really have a hard time standing behind that. corporate greed is also out of control.

Well, if your competitors are manufacturing in a lower cost environment (wages, regulations, etc) and you aren't you'll be unable to compete and then out of business. So if it's greedy to want to stay in business, than they are guilty of that.

That's basic economics.

 

[Townie72]

It seems that when Carrier did it, the equivalent would be naming a library on campus.

Times have clearly changed.

I guess what bothers me most about this whole conversation is the sheer ingratitude of those who claim SU didn't get enough. Talk about "Greed".

 

[Orangepace]

I've got an idea.. instead of complaining about past miscues in selling the naming rights, the University could approach it's wealthy alumni and ask them to attempt to purchase the rights from Carrier/UTX. I'd be curious what the asking price would be.

 

[orangecuse]

Screwed? Screwed? The University got screwed?

Carrier gave them a$2.4M gift (in 1979 Dollars) when they needed it badly. And that $2.4M is worth $7M in 2016 dollars.

The University and some of its supporters want to reneg on the deal and get more money? Instead of gratitude for the $2.4 M gift, what we hear is a sense of entitlement for more. The value went up, so we are entitled to more, is what I hear.

It's like selling someone a house and having that house go way up in value for the new owners. None of that money the new owners made is yours.

If I'm Carrier, my bottom number for relinquishing the name is $7M And they can wash their hands of the deal. Of course, they might also want to write a letter and publish it warning other corporations not to get involved with SU.

If Carrier's 1979 donation was a "gift," in the spirit of giving such a thing does one expect something in return? Is that commonplace for "gift" givers? Or, is the "gift" done as a nice gesture, making one feel good about giving the 'gift' in the first place? It appears SU has been quite appreciative (showing its 'gratitude') by displaying Carrier's name so visibly on the building ever since.

As you have suggested in several of your comments, if Carrier doesn't see the value in having its name displayed on the dome, then why do/would they care if SU changes the name of the building, especially with the university taking on such substantial monetary renovations? Furthermore, as you've also suggested, the patrons that go to the stadium (as well as the millions of viewers across the US and abroad) aren't consumers of Carrier's products...so again, no loss there. Though, I imagine many of these patrons and viewers own dwellings, businesses, etc. have AC units or may be in the market for same. I know I've had my dwelling's AC units serviced by a company/dealer that actually sells Carrier high efficiency SEER units...go figure.

Possibly, SU can include a nostalgia type wing/wall, etc. in the new dome that has pictures of the old Carrier Dome as it was...showing its continued "gratitude" of such proportioned gift once upon a time. Maybe that would satisfy Carrier enough from writing that horrifying warning letter you imply they should to other would-be corps in scorn of SU? Although, I imagine, those prospective corporations all would likely share the same sentiment in that a dream deal like that was really once in a lifetime...a gift that keeps on giving!

 

[CuseOnly]

First of all no one is going to announce before every game what company manufactured the HVAC equipment in the building. Your point is ridiculous. It's never going to happen. And Carrier will know that.

And even if they did, no one would care. Because HVAC systems aren't a consumer good and if there are 35,000 people at a football game there might be five people involved in the procurement of HVAC systems.
On on the procurement process, although an owner can tell the Engineer what equipment to specify or can actually buy the equipment themselves, this rarely happens and is filled with potential problems when it does. Universities generally lack the expertise to do this.
The University doesn't have a leg to stand on in this. The best they can do is buy Carrier out. If Carrier doesn't want to sell, the University will have to pound sand. Again your opinion

But Carrier probably will agree to some sort of arrangement. After all, the Carrier name on that building isn't all that valuable to them. But I wouldn't give it away. Like I said, if I were them I'd ask for not a penny less than the current value of the $2.4M which is $7 M.

First of all no one is going to announce before every game what company manufactured the HVAC equipment in the building. Your point is ridiculous. It's never going to happen. And Carrier will know that.Just like they don't announce that the Carrier Dome doesn't have air conditioning, hardy har. If Trane has paid for commercials during that space, they most assuredly will get mentioned. They can and will, this is your opinion.

And even if they did, no one would care. Because HVAC systems aren't a consumer good and if there are 35,000 people at a football game there might be five people involved in the procurement of HVAC systems. This would be a name recognition play, they aren't targeting the 5 ppl that buy commercial HVAC in the crowd or the audience. Not every bit of advertising is done to target buyers and consumers to purchase product. Talk to IBM and GE about this. Some it is done to show that the company is on the cutting edge of tech in their space.

On on the procurement process, although an owner can tell the Engineer what equipment to specify or can actually buy the equipment themselves, this rarely happens and is filled with potential problems when it does. Universities generally lack the expertise to do this. Again, this is your opinion and complete supposition. You are making the assumption that the owner entity has no idea or no engineers on staff to determine what is needed. Believe it or not, contractors that have no loyalty or preference for products do exist and are hired every day. I see it nearly every day where IT Staff and engineers specifically determine what is needed. If you don't think that almost every HVAC company have very similarly spec'd products to fit almost all applications, you are deluding yourself. On a project this large, you can bet your ass the Manufacturer, whoever it is (Carrier, Trane, etc.), will be involved every step of the way... from the spec, to procurement to the install process and most likely be on site every step of the way as well. Again, I see this every day in private, K-12 and Higher ed with much smaller projects.

The University doesn't have a leg to stand on in this. The best they can do is buy Carrier out. If Carrier doesn't want to sell, the University will have to pound sand. Again your opinion, have you seen the contract? I am guessing no or it would have been public information long ago. They could litigate on the grounds that the building is not the same. I would guess that if what you think is correct, Carrier wouldn't have picked up the phone...yet they did and are willing to negotiate. Meaning that their position is not as strong as you think it is. If you are dealing from a position of strength, you tell the University to go pound...you don't say to them "hold on now, don't be rash , let's talk about this...".

But Carrier probably will agree to some sort of arrangement. After all, the Carrier name on that building isn't all that valuable to them. But I wouldn't give it away. Like I said, if I were them I'd ask for not a penny less than the current value of the $2.4M which is $7 M. You would probably end up in court with this stance and take a chance of getting nothing at the end.

 

[xc84]

I really don't think it would be a bad PR move if they could get out of the agreement by saying that it is a different building after the renovations. I think $250M in renovations to a building that cost $26M to build makes the conclusion logical to come to. The roof will no longer be air supported...which was a main design feature of the current dome. If it can legally be done, I can't imagine a potential donor who would really care enough to halt donations. This is a very unique circumstance and people understand.

 

[xc84]

And even if they did, no one would care. Because HVAC systems aren't a consumer good and if there are 35,000 people at a football game there might be five people involved in the procurement of HVAC systems.

 

[Townie72]

HVAC as a consumer good when the purchase is not part of a construction or renovation project:

SUFan Dream world version:
"Hey, Honey, when you're at Home Depot get some light bulbs and a new furnace and a couple of heat pumps, please. And make sure to get Trane because that's what they use in the Carrier Dome."

Real world version:
"Hey, Honey, the heating system repair guy was out today and said we need to replace our furnace and heat pumps. After all, they are 20 years old. He said it would cost about $8,000."

"OK, Dear. But we probably ought to get at least one competitive bid from another HVAC company to make sure we aren't getting ripped off." (Notice that the "shopping" that goes on is between competing HVAC contractors and not between equipment manufacturers. And it's the HVAC contractor.

The dream world version is preferred by those on here who are desperate for SU to build better facilities so they can enjoy them. And have somehow talked themselves into the idea that the name of the SU facility is going to influence these decisions.

And Home Depot doesn't carry Trane equipment, only Carrier, Lennox and Rheem. And "Honey" doesn't have the foggiest clue about how these units and manufacturers are different from one another. Except for price.

 

[Townie72]

I really don't think it would be a bad PR move if they could get out of the agreement by saying that it is a different building after the renovations. I think $250M in renovations to a building that cost $26M to build makes the conclusion logical to come to. The roof will no longer be air supported...which was a main design feature of the current dome. If it can legally be done, I can't imagine a potential donor who would really care enough to halt donations. This is a very unique circumstance and people understand.

It's a transparent and sleazy grab for a few more bucks.

That's what his long-time contributing alum would think.

In a world where our political leaders are so obviously dishonest, it would be nice if at least the universities tried to conduct themselves in an ethical manner.

And Universities aren't very good at this law suit approach. Remember when UConn talked Pitt and others into suing the ACC? The suit failed completely and the universities were stuck with huge legal bills.

Universities need to stay out of court. They aren't land developers or Wall Street firms

 

[xc84]

HVAC as a consumer good when the purchase is not part of a construction or renovation project:

SUFan Dream world version:
"Hey, Honey, when you're at Home Depot get some light bulbs and a new furnace and a couple of heat pumps, please. And make sure to get Trane because that's what they use in the Carrier Dome."

Real world version:
"Hey, Honey, the heating system repair guy was out today and said we need to replace our furnace and heat pumps. After all, they are 20 years old. He said it would cost about $8,000."

"OK, Dear. But we probably ought to get at least one competitive bid from another HVAC company to make sure we aren't getting ripped off." (Notice that the "shopping" that goes on is between competing HVAC contractors and not between equipment manufacturers. And it's the HVAC contractor.

The dream world version is preferred by those on here who are desperate for SU to build better facilities so they can enjoy them. And have somehow talked themselves into the idea that the name of the SU facility is going to influence these decisions.

And Home Depot doesn't carry Trane equipment, only Carrier, Lennox and Rheem. And "Honey" doesn't have the foggiest clue about how these units and manufacturers are different from one another. Except for price.

That's not my experience. I picked the brand I wanted. I purchased an air conditioner and furnace for my house about 5 years ago. I got various quotes from various dealers and brand was part of my decision.

 

[Chip]

Universities need to stay out of court. They aren't land developers or Wall Street firms

Or running for President.

heyyyyyyyyyyyyy ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

(it's a joke, deep breaths everyone).

 

[xc84]

It's a transparent and sleazy grab for a few more bucks.

That's what his long-time contributing alum would think.

In a world where our political leaders are so obviously dishonest, it would be nice if at least the universities tried to conduct themselves in an ethical manner.

And Universities aren't very good at this law suit approach. Remember when UConn talked Pitt and others into suing the ACC? The suit failed completely and the universities were stuck with huge legal bills.

Universities need to stay out of court. They aren't land developers or Wall Street firms

I think they will "settle out of court" and both Carrier and SU will portray it as a win/win. They will just announce that they negotiated an agreement that satisfied both sides.

 

[Townie72]

>
Lots of companies are located domestically and are doing very well. I'll let the corporate/capital experts chime in on what we could do to bring the cash back, and provide incentives for businesses to relocate here. But if the reason for going to mehico is lax environmental standards and 12 year olds working 10 hour days ... pretty hard to give companies a "thumbs up" for social responsibility.

Lots of companies manufacturing domestically?
Name a few that aren't just assembling parts made outside the US.
And those that are have all moved South.

The Unions, the taxers, the regulators and the high cost of living (driven by high taxes) killed the goose that laid the golden egg of manufacturing in the NE and Mid-West.

I've been in Mexican plants and there are no 12 year olds. It's adults. (People watch too many movies and believe them.)