Class of 2016 G John Gillon Jr. Commited to Syracuse

[cusetown1]

When has JB had a guard that shot 10% from three and 30% overall with a below 2/1 assist to turnover ratio?

I think people forget how good MCW was coming in let alone his second year. Thinking a Howard blow up into that is just insane.

Gillon didn't transfer to sit behind a guard who has essentially done nothing to prove he belongs on the court during games, he came to play and id be shocked if he didn't start. (If Mali doesn't come back)

I'm actually very excited about Howard. He has a great basketball IQ and is an excellent passer(minus a few passes in the ACC tourney game against Pitt, and one in the tourney ). I felt very comfortable with him in games at clutch times as a frosh. Also with the limited shots he took he made quite a few of them. All he would have to do to "blow up" is hit more shots and keep passing the way he does . With ample minutes that's easily possible, and he will eventually earn that opportunity .

 

[jgeorge322]

When has JB had a guard that shot 10% from three and 30% overall with a below 2/1 assist to turnover ratio?

I think people forget how good MCW was coming in let alone his second year. Thinking a Howard blow up into that is just insane.

Gillon didn't transfer to sit behind a guard who has essentially done nothing to prove he belongs on the court during games, he came to play and id be shocked if he didn't start. (If Mali doesn't come back)

Done nothing... Woah

 

[two3zone]

I'm actually very excited about Howard. He has a great basketball IQ and is an excellent passer(minus a few passes in the ACC tourney game against Pitt, and one in the tourney ). I felt very comfortable with him in games at clutch times as a frosh. Also with the limited shots he took he made quite a few of them. All he would have to do to "blow up" is hit more shots and keep passing the way he does . With ample minutes that's easily possible, and he will eventually earn that opportunity .

The numbers say the complete opposite.

 

[two3zone]

Done nothing... Woah

He showed he can't shoot at all. I'm not saying he'll never be a rotation guy or anything along those lines, but going all in with somebody that shoots like that and has a A/T ratio less than 2/1 is not the smartest decision.

 

[jgeorge322]

He showed he can't shoot at all. I'm not saying he'll never be a rotation guy or anything along those lines, but going all in with somebody that shoots like that and has a A/T ratio less than 2/1 is not the smartest decision.

Youre the one being extreme. You said done nothing.

And hes already a rotation guy so your comment is irrational.

Boeheim himself said he made some of the best passes weve seen in the dome.

 

[two3zone]

Youre the one being extreme. You said done nothing.

And hes already a rotation guy so your comment is irrational.

Boeheim himself said he made some of the best passes weve seen in the dome.

Extreme? His numbers are extreme.

 

[jgeorge322]

Extreme? His numbers are extreme.

Ok and hes a frosh who wasnt expected to play. His numbers mean relatively little. You're eye test must not work very mean.

Also, do you plan on addressing my other points or is that the best you could do?

 

[two3zone]

Ok and hes a frosh who wasnt expected to play. His numbers mean relatively little. You're eye test must not work very mean.

Also, do you plan on addressing my other points or is that the best you could do?

What are your other points? You take numbers and disregard them. Does Howard shoot that bad next year? Probably not, but he needs to improve greatly.

He made Buss Patterson look like a sharp shooter last season, if you don't think Howard needs a lot of work I really have nothing to debate with you.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I haven't looked but how many attempts did he have? Gosh it can't be a whole bunch? Watch Frank play and you can see he is a talent, numbers are important but they don't convey everything.

 

[two3zone]

I haven't looked but how many attempts did he have? Gosh it can't be a whole bunch? Watch Frank play and you can see he is a talent, numbers are important but they don't convey everything.

2-20 from 3, 18-63 overall.

 

[weedsportwarriors]

Two3zone, it must be hard to be an SU fan when all you do is look for what is wrong with everyone's game and concentrate on that. I realize you can't win games without putting the ball in the hoop, but it also takes someone to get the ball to the player to put it in the hoop. Frank may not be a great shooter right now, but he has a 2 to 1 asst/TO ratio (for a freshman) and played pretty good defense while he was in there, again for a freshman getting used to the zone. I know you have said that you don't wear orange color glasses like the rest of us, but I was wondering if you wear anything orange colored. You are always so negative.

 

[jgeorge322]

2-20 from 3, 18-63 overall.

Thats a small sample set especially with coach b breathing down your back every time you even think of shooting. Didnt Frank break his hand mid year too?

 

[MSOrange]

Thats a small sample set especially with coach b breathing down your back every time you even think of shooting. Didnt Frank break his hand mid year too?

Fractured left thumb

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebaske...actured_left_thumb_against_florida_state.html

 

[jgeorge322]

Fractured left thumb

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebaske...actured_left_thumb_against_florida_state.html

I just feel its a bit unfair to throw out his shooting numbers, say he did nothing his first year, and then infer he could be a rotational guy some day. I mean silent g's assist to to was only 1.6-1. Numbers dont say it all.

 

[patcuse]

Thats a small sample set especially with coach b breathing down your back every time you even think of shooting. Didnt Frank break his hand mid year too?

Don't forget his .500 freethrow percentage. You tie all those shooting stats together and guess what he can't shoot. Then it's Jim's fault for not letting him shoot. Common you think he is knocking them down in practice.

 

[orangefog]

The kid was shooting once a game. He was on a tremendously short leash. There was no chance to get any rhythm. To judge him on his numbers this year is foolish and only serves to support a negative point of view. I know from watching the games, that I felt comfortable with him in at the point guard position for whatever minutes he got. And he was productive, and he was improving. His confidence was growing and I expect him to be extremely productive next year and beyond. I thought he was an impressive freshman despite the numbers.

 

[PhatOrange]

Demetris Nichols shot 23.6 % from 3 his frosh year and 25% his sophomore year.

17-72
15-60

Then he jumped up to 36% and 41.7% and tripled the number of shots.

73-201
100-240

How about Duany who was 4-16 his frosh year (25%) and 43-123 (35%) his senior year.

Nah Howard is doomed for sure. Freshman numbers mean everything.

 

[Funk Doc]

Let's not forget, he was recruited as a point guard with average to below average shooting skills. Do I think he is as bad a shooter as his numbers say...definitely not. But is he a tad better than those numbers?...most likely. All I know is, that the sample size I saw of him on the floor, I was completely comfortable with him on the ball. In my opinion the best scoring back court we could send out there last season was him at one and G at the two. Do I see MCW next season for him? Of course not, but so far I really like what I see as a future PG for this team.

 

[jordoo]

Wow, the numbers do not lie, he had a very bad shooting freshman campaign. I think the kid has a lot of upside and will be a better shooter than he has shown but I don't understand arguing the facts.

If Mal goes to the NBA this whole discussion is meaningless as Frank, John, Tyus will all get big minutes.

If Mal comes back I expect that he will play some minutes at the 3 so there could be somewhere around 90 minutes for those 4 guards to split. I think Frank would still get regular minutes in that scenario just not as many minutes as some expect.

Its hard for me to see any scenario where the most successful, experienced and proven PG on the roster doesn't get 18-20 minutes or more per game. (Gillon)

 

[orangefog]

Wow, the numbers do not lie, he had a very bad shooting freshman campaign. I think the kid has a lot of upside and will be a better shooter than he has shown but I don't understand arguing the facts.

If Mal goes to the NBA this whole discussion is meaningless as Frank, John, Tyus will all get big minutes.

If Mal comes back I expect that he will play some minutes at the 3 so there could be somewhere around 90 minutes for those 4 guards to split. I think Frank would still get regular minutes in that scenario just not as many minutes as some expect.

Its hard for me to see any scenario where the most successful, experienced and proven PG on the roster doesn't get 18-20 minutes or more per game. (Gillon)

I agree with you, Jordoo. But, the people that point to the numbers and dismiss Frank, and I know that isn't you, don't consider the context of those numbers. Try playing 5 minutes per game or less, knowing that you will be removed from the game as soon as you make your first mistake. And in those games you take one or two shots, no rhythm at all, and all with the pressure of knowing that if you miss, you are out. So, while those numbers don't lie, they also don't tell the whole truth. And most of us see, I am sure you included, is that with an increased role, Frank will be just fine.

 

[jordoo]

I agree with you, Jordoo. But, the people that point to the numbers and dismiss Frank, and I know that isn't you, don't consider the context of those numbers. Try playing 5 minutes per game or less, knowing that you will be removed from the game as soon as you make your first mistake. And in those games you take one or two shots, no rhythm at all, and all with the pressure of knowing that if you miss, you are out. So, while those numbers don't lie, they also don't tell the whole truth. And most of us see, I am sure you included, is that with an increased role, Frank will be just fine.

I agree its quite common for freshman to struggle with shooting in these situations. Frank is far from the first or last that we will see do so at SU. If you look at the history of these type of guys who became good shooters over their career it usually took until their junior seasons. I really do not expect Frank to take off with his shooting numbers next year. I think we will see improvement in that area and he can certainly help us in other ways. He has a lot of potential defensively but that is an area he needs to work hard on to understand where to be and when to move. Still Frank strikes me more as a distributor/scorer than a shooter type. I'm doubtful he will ever be a great shooter but I think he will round out into a dangerous scorer when needed to be one by the end of his career.

 

[orangefog]

I agree its quite common for freshman to struggle with shooting in these situations. Frank is far from the first or last that we will see do so at SU. If you look at the history of these type of guys who became good shooters over their career it usually took until their junior seasons. I really do not expect Frank to take off with his shooting numbers next year. I think we will see improvement in that area and he can certainly help us in other ways. He has a lot of potential defensively but that is an area he needs to work hard on to understand where to be and when to move. Still Frank strikes me more as a distributor/scorer than a shooter type. I'm doubtful he will ever be a great shooter but I think he will round out into a dangerous scorer when needed to be one by the end of his career.

Agree completely, if we are depending on him becoming a dead eye shooter, we are in trouble. I am excited about his playmaking ability and his pass first mentality. He has shown excellent vision and ability to deliver. I thought he looked much more comfortable in the NCAA tournament, his confidence grew as he learned his role. I think that only expands next year. If MR comes back, next year is going to be incredible. I am hoping that JB uses the press nearly every game to speed up the game and change pace, because we will have the horses to pull it off. Four dependable guards and a stable of big men. Many of us have wanted to have a secondary defense to go along with the zone, because some teams just know how to beat it. It looks like the press could be just enough to throw teams off. Sorry for going off topic, just getting amped for next year already.

 

[HoustonCuse]

What did Demetris Nichols and James Southerland shoot on their first 20 attempts from 3? Not very excellent I would wager. Also, since Frank was on the "no shoot" list, a lot of the shots he did take were forced by end of clock situations (low percentage type shots from the get go).

In any event, point is: he shot very very little, he shot like dog poop, but that doesn't mean he is destined for the junk heap or his ceiling is little used reserve. I really like his game and I think he will be a very important player in the Scoop Jardine type mold for this program over the next 3 years. As for numbers and stats, here's one I like: he has already been a rotation player on a Final Four squad. Not a terrible start.

 

[MSOrange]

I wonder if Lazarus Sims might be a good comparison for Frank. It looks like Frank will probably play more minutes than Lazarus did his first few years. He already has as a freshman. But Lazarus eventually got to the point where he still didn't shoot a ton, but he was clutch when he did and Lazarus was always an excellent passer. I'd be happy with that progress although I think Frank has an even higher ceiling. Could be wrong though.

 

[jgeorge322]

Wow, the numbers do not lie, he had a very bad shooting freshman campaign. I think the kid has a lot of upside and will be a better shooter than he has shown but I don't understand arguing the facts.

If Mal goes to the NBA this whole discussion is meaningless as Frank, John, Tyus will all get big minutes.

If Mal comes back I expect that he will play some minutes at the 3 so there could be somewhere around 90 minutes for those 4 guards to split. I think Frank would still get regular minutes in that scenario just not as many minutes as some expect.

Its hard for me to see any scenario where the most successful, experienced and proven PG on the roster doesn't get 18-20 minutes or more per game. (Gillon)

How manu of franks shot was when the shot clock was running down and he had to get something up? Id say at least 1/3. Not saying hes a great shooter but i think the numbers can deceive in this situation. Its not like he looks like josh pace when he shoots.