Get a grip people

[OttoinGrotto]

I'm going to throw my phone if I get one more "We just gotta be patient" text lol

Maybe the real "we just gotta be patient" text is the friends we made along the way (watching us get dump trucked by Tennessee).

 

[phil77]

On the topic of young guys, I hope everyone realizes Kiyan Anthony and Sadiq White are not going to change anything. Very good players, but add them to a 12-win team and you're not going to be ranked. Especially given we're likely to simply swap out Donnie for Sadiq, and while I'm excited about Sadiq that's not an upgrade. Moore should be our biggest priority during the off-season, which means Kiyan probably comes off the bench.

Sounds like another vaunted greatest recruiting class ever

 

[two3zone]

We could win 10 and it wont mean much given the state of the ACC. The ACC is a disaster so far and pretty much getting manhandled by every other power conference with bad losses to boot.

We may need football to keep pushing forward and Fran shocking the world to give an assist to get a fire under getting hoops back where it belongs.

A bunch of tomato cans rattling around and one of them will be less dented than the rest.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Point 1: I was just reiterating that I too am not happy. The difference is that I think it is over the top to proclaim that we are never winning another game and all the other hyperbole. That isn't true or productive. If it makes you or others feel better to say so, sure, go ahead and have those feelings and process them that way. My point was that that is not how I choose to process my frustration -- looking back at the last few years, I believe the team will win enough this season that we will have something meaningful to be cheering for late into the season. It might not be the SU we want to see or deserve to see, but it's not the cesspool people are describing either.

Point 2: I never said that creeping back onto the bubble was ok or that the status quo was ok. Where are you seeing that? I was just saying that, given where we ended up at the end of the season after truly horrific starts, it is silly to be proclaim the season over at this point. That's really my main point here -- things are bad, really bad, but not nearly as bad as people are making them out to be. There is still some hope to salvage the season, even if we still need to make changes going forward -- and I'm not denying that maybe we should be making changes going forward.

Point 3: Again, you are misreading my intent. My only point is that we have some real talent this year and more coming in next. It obviously in this era needs to be supplemented through the portal and we failed in that this year. It's premature to guess about next year. But we did what we needed to do to have some young talent, and I expect this year's group to contribute and improve in a way that will give us a chance against pretty much anyone we play if they improve and get time.

Point 4: You asked for an honest answer, so I'll give you one. I think that if we recover and end the season in the top half of the ACC, with the class coming in, I'm willing to see what Red can do with another year. If they really tank the way others are guaranteeing we will, a change should be made at the end of this season. But I think we all know that's not happening.

Point 1—it’s not that you are not happy. It’s that you said you’re not happy but that your messaging and perspective about not being happy were the right ways to express not being happy. That your perspective is how we should all feel and deal.

Point 2 — More of the same thing. Not sure how you can proclaim certain projections as being “silly,“ while you espouse your own projections and hopes. In Point 4, you’re actually suggesting we might finish in the top half of the ACC. This, after seeing our condition after six games, and then us losing our ‘best player’ for a time period we don’t yet know. And we were already projected to be outside the top half of the conference. That, to me, sounds “silly.”

Point 3 — You‘re assuming next year we retain certain players. And then add some freshmen. Firstly, retaining anyone is a flip of a coin. And the worse we do this year only lowers the odds. Secondly, as I noted, relying on skinny freshmen against experienced, stronger players is not the recipe. We just saw guys we’ve never heard of and who have no nba prospects just abuse our strongest upperclassmen. Because they’re stronger and more experienced, and better-coached. None of which applies to our incoming class. We aren’t getting Cooper Flagg. Have you seen the kids we have coming in?

Point 4 — Thank you. But, why do you feel we will “recover?“ Why would you feel now, with the significant loss of JJ, that our prospects are better now than they even were before we started the season? Westry? And then you are essentially saying what you don’t want others to say. If we end up flailing and failing this season, you think we should move on from Red at the end of this season. That’s just what even the most negative person is saying here. No reasonable person is saying we should fire Red right now. Because who are we going to get to replace him? Moving to the next person on the same bench is what got us here. And I haven’t seen a list of good coaches who are just sitting at home waiting for a call.

As for your dismay at certain hyperbole… welcome to the internet! Your backup diskette is in the mail. Forums of any kind require something of the viewer. You have to PROCESS information and messages. Here’s a strategy you might want to try (this is not snark): when you read something that offends you because it’s ’too negative,’ imagine that post was typed by a fat dude in his underwear, drinking a PBR in his mom’s basement.

We disagree on a lot, but kudos for just keeping it to The Game and not jumping ugly into personal attacks. We are all here for the same reason. We all have different experiences and expectations. When I started at SU, we had Pearl and Seikaly. Got DC the next year and went to the NC. Signed the co-No 1 player in Billy Owens…. That, for me, was the norm. Many of us may have started their fandom when we were… a lesser program. All that to say that our perspectives are ALL shaped by something and it’s ridiculous to suggest we should all feel the sa,e way.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I'll stop with my responses, but the point of my original post was not that more patience was needed with Red or that I'm so worried about losing recruits that we better not make any changes. My point was that to say we are not winning another game, are the worst SU team in 50 years and that we don't have a single player that would start on another ACC team etc. etc. etc. is just idiotic venting. I get the frustration and totally agree that maybe we need to move in another direction. But in the here and now of 12/4/24, the season is not over and I think that, just like last year, we can get better, win some games and maybe make some noise. I'd rather cheer for that right now and save the apocalyptical stuff for the end of the season if it is warranted based on how the rest of the season goes.

If someone said we’re Not winning another game (who? Name names) and you took that so seriously that you need to walk out of the room, that’s on you. Treat a message board like you’re scoring gymnastics. Throw away the high and low scores.

[That’s how gymnastics scoring works, right?]

 

[BBQuse]

If someone said we’re Not winning another game (who? Name names) and you took that so seriously that you need to walk out of the room, that’s on you. Treat a message board like you’re scoring gymnastics. Throw away the high and low scores.

[That’s how gymnastics scoring works, right?]

Geez, trust me, I know how the internet work and none of this offends me even though it is pretty clear that your responses to me, despite your claims, have been kind of snarky (like clearly I was not being 100% literal about people saying we are not winning a single additional game, though many clearly have said we may not even qualify for the ACCT). My goal was just presenting a counterpoint to what I perceive to be the over-the-top negativity towards this year's team at this particular moment and time in the season. I have lurked on this board since it's inception (and it's prior incarnations too) and have obviously seen the movie before where everyone claims we are beyond terrible and irredeemable. While we aren't where we should be and pretty clearly won't end up where we should be (and I am also the same vintage as you -- with memories of the late 80's and expectations that that is where we always should be) --I'm not willing to say that we can't salvage the season, at least to some meaningful extent. That's what I'm hoping for and that's what I'll be cheering for.

 

[Orangezoo]

Geez, trust me, I know how the internet work and none of this offends me even though it is pretty clear that your responses to me, despite your claims, have been kind of snarky (like clearly I was not being 100% literal about people saying we are not winning a single additional game, though many clearly have said we may not even qualify for the ACCT). My goal was just presenting a counterpoint to what I perceive to be the over-the-top negativity towards this year's team at this particular moment and time in the season. I have lurked on this board since it's inception (and it's prior incarnations too) and have obviously seen the movie before where everyone claims we are beyond terrible and irredeemable. While we aren't where we should be and pretty clearly won't end up where we should be (and I am also the same vintage as you -- with memories of the late 80's and expectations that that is where we always should be) --I'm not willing to say that we can't salvage the season, at least to some meaningful extent. That's what I'm hoping for and that's what I'll be cheering for.

There has to be something to latch onto that’s evidence that the leadership needed to turn things around exists. That’s where it really falls short. Talent is still a problem but even being so early on- that lack of fire and true leadership is missing from Red when you just watch the games. The answers aren’t there from both a game management and intensity perspective. Those leadership elements don’t just emerge out of thin air. He has the recruiting chops and the assistant coaching ability to connect with players but there is what appears to be too much missing to really be a successful head of a major program in this environment.

He’s facing a major uphill battle to climb out of it and to do so he probably has to make some big changes in his approach. For some people that is a very difficult task.

 

[cusefan88]

Cuse is in the "failing at following a legend phase". Wildhack needs to get the post-Red hire right. Almost certainly will be someone with HC experience.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

I get it. I've been a fan for 40 years and where the program is right now stinks. I used to look forward to each game and watch every second of each, win or lose. The last few years, the joy of anticipation has turned into a fear/depression and I've found myself turning off some games well before the end. Worst of all, my kids are missing out on making the awesome memories that I take for granted. They've never known SU as a perpetual NCAAT participant (never mind threat to win every year). That being said, the "burn it all down now" mentality, where people think our players stink, our coaches stink and we aren't even going to qualify for the ACCT is just totally over the top. We've heard similar whining at the start of every year the last few years and, despite it all, we were able to creep back onto the bubble. Now maybe this is the year that doesn't happen, and JJ's injury is going to make things a lot more difficult, but we have some really impressive young talent and there is definitely a chance for improvement (just like last year). It might be too little too late, but with the class we have coming in next year, the doom and gloom is just a little over the top. To be clear, I'm not ok even with just being on the bubble, but I think it's just too early to be throwing in the towel on this year or the Red era. That time will come soon enough if things don't improve drastically by next year, but I'm willing to suffer just a bit longer to see where things go. Hopefully up.

Swiiiiiing and a Rob Deerian miss

 

[two3zone]

Cuse is in the "failing at following a legend phase". Wildhack needs to get the post-Red hire right. Almost certainly will be someone with HC experience.

This isn't a following a legend phase, this is pure incompetency. He picked the roster, every player, you saw the big ticket item and who he brought back.

Jim Boeheim has nothing to do with piecing those players together which is why this is a disaster.

 

[tptcuse]

This isn't a following a legend phase, this is pure incompetency. He picked the roster, every player, you saw the big ticket item and who he brought back.

Jim Boeheim has nothing to do with piecing those players together which is why this is a disaster.

I'm more concerned about the seeming inability to adapt and play the players who play best in the actual games.

 

[baggerbob]

Point 1—it’s not that you are not happy. It’s that you said you’re not happy but that your messaging and perspective about not being happy were the right ways to express not being happy. That your perspective is how we should all feel and deal.

Point 2 — More of the same thing. Not sure how you can proclaim certain projections as being “silly,“ while you espouse your own projections and hopes. In Point 4, you’re actually suggesting we might finish in the top half of the ACC. This, after seeing our condition after six games, and then us losing our ‘best player’ for a time period we don’t yet know. And we were already projected to be outside the top half of the conference. That, to me, sounds “silly.”

Point 3 — You‘re assuming next year we retain certain players. And then add some freshmen. Firstly, retaining anyone is a flip of a coin. And the worse we do this year only lowers the odds. Secondly, as I noted, relying on skinny freshmen against experienced, stronger players is not the recipe. We just saw guys we’ve never heard of and who have no nba prospects just abuse our strongest upperclassmen. Because they’re stronger and more experienced, and better-coached. None of which applies to our incoming class. We aren’t getting Cooper Flagg. Have you seen the kids we have coming in?

Point 4 — Thank you. But, why do you feel we will “recover?“ Why would you feel now, with the significant loss of JJ, that our prospects are better now than they even were before we started the season? Westry? And then you are essentially saying what you don’t want others to say. If we end up flailing and failing this season, you think we should move on from Red at the end of this season. That’s just what even the most negative person is saying here. No reasonable person is saying we should fire Red right now. Because who are we going to get to replace him? Moving to the next person on the same bench is what got us here. And I haven’t seen a list of good coaches who are just sitting at home waiting for a call.

As for your dismay at certain hyperbole… welcome to the internet! Your backup diskette is in the mail. Forums of any kind require something of the viewer. You have to PROCESS information and messages. Here’s a strategy you might want to try (this is not snark): when you read something that offends you because it’s ’too negative,’ imagine that post was typed by a fat dude in his underwear, drinking a PBR in his mom’s basement.

We disagree on a lot, but kudos for just keeping it to The Game and not jumping ugly into personal attacks. We are all here for the same reason. We all have different experiences and expectations. When I started at SU, we had Pearl and Seikaly. Got DC the next year and went to the NC. Signed the co-No 1 player in Billy Owens…. That, for me, was the norm. Many of us may have started their fandom when we were… a lesser program. All that to say that our perspectives are ALL shaped by something and it’s ridiculous to suggest we should all feel the sa,e way.

Wonderful Post, and I remember losing 26
In a row, but if Carlos doesn't end up getting a lot less minutes soon, then this needs to be Red's last year.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

This isn't a following a legend phase, this is pure incompetency. He picked the roster, every player, you saw the big ticket item and who he brought back.

Jim Boeheim has nothing to do with piecing those players together which is why this is a disaster.

I do think JB bears the brunt of some of this. We didn't get upper level portal guys or more+better HS recruits in part because we haven't been a high profile destination in a long time. A lot of it is pure money, but players also want to have a chance to play in the tournament and showcase their talents. Joining a team that hasn't been ranked or in The Dance for a while seems to make it necessary to pay more. And not being a very good team also should have something to do with how much NIL is generated. People are more likely to pay into a winning system, no? I don't know for sure—of course, some of that has to do with program energy. And generating energy can come from various means or sources. See Fran, i guess.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Geez, trust me, I know how the internet work and none of this offends me even though it is pretty clear that your responses to me, despite your claims, have been kind of snarky (like clearly I was not being 100% literal about people saying we are not winning a single additional game, though many clearly have said we may not even qualify for the ACCT). My goal was just presenting a counterpoint to what I perceive to be the over-the-top negativity towards this year's team at this particular moment and time in the season. I have lurked on this board since it's inception (and it's prior incarnations too) and have obviously seen the movie before where everyone claims we are beyond terrible and irredeemable. While we aren't where we should be and pretty clearly won't end up where we should be (and I am also the same vintage as you -- with memories of the late 80's and expectations that that is where we always should be) --I'm not willing to say that we can't salvage the season, at least to some meaningful extent. That's what I'm hoping for and that's what I'll be cheering for.

Dude, when i type snark, it's with a smile, not fangs.
I don't know what to say—you made a claim that 'people' are saying we're not going to win another game. I responded to that assertion. Now, you're saying you made it up... Dogs and geese! Okay, whatever. My point stands—you need to filter and process what you read.
You clearly started a thread with a 'demand' for 'the rest of us' to "get a grip," which implies that your perspective is the reasonable one. It may be reasonable, but it's not exlusively so. And you keep piling on the hyperbole yourself. "Beyond terrible" and "irredeemable?" Was that also "not being 100% literal?"

As i suggested—read internet posts with a smile in your head and don't project. I might write things that you read as being grounded in anger and hysterics, and really i'm a pretty light person and i don't get that upset about anything. And the thing is, everyone you're probably talking about has been here for many years and will continue to be here for many years, despite the abject dissatisfaction and discontentment.

Keep hoping. We're all hoping. Some of us just don't mind recognizing and discussing things that don't make us happy. Step into the Off-Topic side and witness the 'therapeutic venting.'

 

[PoppyHart]

Let's put the "we're not winning another game" narrative to bed NOW. We are beating Albany! Full stop.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

You aren’t living in reality, sir. This never happened anywhere except this board, we were NEVER on any bubble watches

NIT bubble yes.

Turning down a chance to play last year was pathetic but Red wanted to end the season and kick out Mintz and Q ASAP.

 

[AZOrange]

I'm more concerned about the seeming inability to adapt and play the players who play best in the actual games.

Yeah it’s weird. And learned

 

[JuiceMeUp]

Every One wants results like Fran had. Good recruits are coming. Red needed to do better at point guard for sure, but could not forsee Lampkins back or JJ injury. Tennessee is not better at every position because of Barnes’ scary coaching, it’s $$$$$$$. Does anyone think red didn’t want Kentuckys transfers, and “chose these guys instead?”.

Acc/Big east coaches are going to have to be masters at roster construction while SEC just pays for the best.

If I hear it’s money one more time man. We had the number 26 overall class for 2024 and number 10 overall transfer class in 2023. We have 4 star HS and transfer kids littered all over the roster and even two 5 stars (although I understand JJ is hurt now). It is almost exclusively all Autry’s guys at this point. I get that our talent doesn’t stack up with the CBB elite anymore but my god it is far better than the results that have been shown up to this point. I mean be truly honest with yourself, if you were the one counted on to write the checks, and this is the return on your investment that you’ve seen what on earth would entice you to give out more? Listen I really REALLY hope we can turn this around because I think there definitely is some potential here. However, it is very clear who is failing who at this point in time, and I’m tired of acting like it’s wrong to be honest about it.