Gillon is a huge get

[OttoMets]

Battle is going to be terrific on offense. Gillon and Battle will learn how to play the top of the zone very quickly. What's more important is having the athleticism and endurance to expend the amount of energy that is required. Our teams always seem to play our best defense at the end of the season.

P.S. I remember biting my nails every time Scoop would shoot. But I sure did miss him after he left!

Eh, most of our players have athleticism and endurance. I'd prioritize desire, knowledge, and experience (in that order) as attributes required to defend to Boeheim's satisfaction. Beyond that, the best thing Gillon or Battle could have is a back-court mate who's played defense for Syracuse before - it always helps to have someone who's done it before alongside you to pick you up and communicate your mistakes.

Not sure they'll have that luxury this season, so I'm more interested in what they can do on the other side of the court. Let's win some 90-75 games.

 

[Dave85]

http://www.nunesmagician.com/2016/5...so-who-is-colorado-state-transfer-john-gillon

Here's a great article on Gillon from Nunes. I like what I hear more and more. Sounds like he would be perfect as an energy changing 6th man.

I'm becoming fan-drunk again.

Okay, this part brought me back down to earth:

"In terms of negatives with Gillon's game, sometimes he can get a little too out of control, but that is frequently just a result of what I talked about earlier: trying to get to the basket and make things happen. The good still outweighs the bad with that. And defensively, he could have problems with bigger (Gillon is only like 170 pounds), more talented guards in the ACC, but his offensive value is usually going to outweigh the issues there too."

 

[HoustonCuse]

Only, we've done that before multiple times, with Flynn and GMac [I don't care if he was listed at 6-2, the guy is about the same size as Gillon].

That is an artificial constraint the board is putting on the situation.

I don't completely disagree with you, but things have changed since the Flynn era. And changed dramatically. JB hasn't just gone all-in on the zone, he has gone all-in on a defense first approach. Not just defense first, but almost ALL defense approach. The results of this have been spectacularly good, especially in the NCAA Tournament. So, while it is clear that Gillon will get minutes, he is not going to start and he is not going relegate Howard to the bench.

Does Frank have some weaknesses? Of course. But he is a legit playmaker with a zone-ready body. He will make a frosh-soph jump in his shooting and confidence. He is also the future of the program, whereas Gillon is a 1 year guy. JB and Hop, I hope, understand the much higher value proposition that Howard represents vs Gillon for the program. Nowhere am I saying that Gillon stinks or won't play, etc. What I am saying is he is getting a Paul Harris level bump in perceived capabilities and his fit and long term benefit to the program is an order of magnitude less that Frank's. In the highlight video, which I will remind everyone condenses 2 years of play into 6 minutes of the best of the best of his plays, show a guy who looks very quick and aggressive, can get to the rim, is very small, and very willing to chuck from extremely deep. It also shows him doing some nice things against pitiful defenses (seriously pay attention in most of the highlights). I think he will be a solid contributor but he is being dramatically over valued from a skills and capabilities standpoint based on the 6 minute video.

But no need to get too emotional about all of it. Clearly all of us are speculating on what will happen next year. It is all guesses. Battle could re-injure himself in pre-season scrimmages and Gillon plays 37 minutes a game for all we know. I am thrilled that Gillon has decided to come to SU because I do think we will need him and he will fill several important roles for the team, I don't happen to think "starter" is going to be one of them. If Frank's minutes go down or stay the same because we have Gillon, then it will have turned out not to be a very good move for the program (in my view).

 

[Dave85]

I don't completely disagree with you, but things have changed since the Flynn era. And changed dramatically. JB hasn't just gone all-in on the zone, he has gone all-in on a defense first approach. Not just defense first, but almost ALL defense approach.

At some point they have to start playing offense. I agree with your post. I just thought the idea of not playing offense during the whole game was kind of funny.

 

[HoustonCuse]

At some point they have to start playing offense. I agree with your post. I just thought the idea of not playing offense during the whole game was kind of funny.

I agree, we do need some more offense. Remember though, when our defense is shortening games like it does, you can't really afford to have a guy who shoots 33% chucking 32 footers, you need to take more care with your limited offensive possessions than that. Think about that when watching the Gillon video.

 

[RF2044]

I agree, we do need some more offense. Remember though, when our defense is shortening games like it does, you can't really afford to have a guy who shoots 33% chucking 32 footers, you need to take more care with your limited offensive possessions than that. Think about that when watching the Gillon video.

Your assessment of Gillon is WAY off. The coaches certainly wouldn't agree.

 

[Dave85]

I agree, we do need some more offense. Remember though, when our defense is shortening games like it does, you can't really afford to have a guy who shoots 33% chucking 32 footers, you need to take more care with your limited offensive possessions than that. Think about that when watching the Gillon video.

His stats are not bad:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/61915/john-gillon

They do play defense in the MW league. He had a lot more minutes and took a lot more shots his junior year so he was probably a bigger focus of the other team's defense. He's probably not going to have G's numbers but he will get some good PT in my opinion especially if MR does not come back.

I hope he spends the summer in Syracuse and works out everyday in the Melo Center. Beef up his weight a few pounds but not too much so he's just as fast.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I don't completely disagree with you, but things have changed since the Flynn era. And changed dramatically. JB hasn't just gone all-in on the zone, he has gone all-in on a defense first approach. Not just defense first, but almost ALL defense approach. The results of this have been spectacularly good, especially in the NCAA Tournament. So, while it is clear that Gillon will get minutes, he is not going to start and he is not going relegate Howard to the bench.

Does Frank have some weaknesses? Of course. But he is a legit playmaker with a zone-ready body. He will make a frosh-soph jump in his shooting and confidence. He is also the future of the program, whereas Gillon is a 1 year guy. JB and Hop, I hope, understand the much higher value proposition that Howard represents vs Gillon for the program. Nowhere am I saying that Gillon stinks or won't play, etc. What I am saying is he is getting a Paul Harris level bump in perceived capabilities and his fit and long term benefit to the program is an order of magnitude less that Frank's. In the highlight video, which I will remind everyone condenses 2 years of play into 6 minutes of the best of the best of his plays, show a guy who looks very quick and aggressive, can get to the rim, is very small, and very willing to chuck from extremely deep. It also shows him doing some nice things against pitiful defenses (seriously pay attention in most of the highlights). I think he will be a solid contributor but he is being dramatically over valued from a skills and capabilities standpoint based on the 6 minute video.

But no need to get too emotional about all of it. Clearly all of us are speculating on what will happen next year. It is all guesses. Battle could re-injure himself in pre-season scrimmages and Gillon plays 37 minutes a game for all we know. I am thrilled that Gillon has decided to come to SU because I do think we will need him and he will fill several important roles for the team, I don't happen to think "starter" is going to be one of them. If Frank's minutes go down or stay the same because we have Gillon, then it will have turned out not to be a very good move for the program (in my view).

I agree with much of this. I just like the mentality of Gillon. By default he is an upgrade compared to the last few years because he actually IS a PG with some speed who will play downhill some. By default. I just think we forget how woeful our PG play, playmaking, and speed has been from the guards the past few years. We made a great run but our general performance in the ACC has been just OK, imo. I think most of that has been due to guard woes, too thin of a backcourt, guys playing out of position, 2013 draft class bust, etc. I think we all have been tired of seeing our guards play east-west and struggling against any decent M2M. I'm not saying Gillon will be some all-ACC performer but we will undoubtedly benefit from him.

 

[Dave85]

I agree with much of this. I just like the mentality of Gillon. By default he is an upgrade compared to the last few years because he actually IS a PG with some speed who will play downhill some. By default. I just think we forget how woeful our PG play, playmaking, and speed has been from the guards the past few years. We made a great run but our general performance in the ACC has been just OK, imo. I think most of that has been due to guard woes, too thin of a backcourt, guys playing out of position, 2013 draft class bust, etc. I think we all have been tired of seeing our guards play east-west and struggling against any decent M2M. I'm not saying Gillon will be some all-ACC performer but we will undoubtedly benefit from him.

You forgot to mention Ennis on a fast break was like watching paint dry. Fast breaks were not part of his game. Kaleb was supposed to be a true PG but I just wish him the best of luck. Battle is not really a PG but he has such terrific ball handling skills I think we will be happy. And if Gillon can just compete well in the ACC it will be huge plus and get. I'm really hoping Howard makes a huge leap into his sophomore year. I thought he had all the skills but was a little bit of a head case at times. If maturity playing year 2 will hopefully translate to huge bump in the quality of his play. Even without MR, I like our back court, or I should say, the potential of our back court (oh wait, we're Syracuse, we don't have a back court. We have top of the zone).

 

[SoBeCuse]

You forgot to mention Ennis on a fast break was like watching paint dry. Fast breaks were not part of his game. Kaleb was supposed to be a true PG but I just wish him the best of luck. Battle is not really a PG but he has such terrific ball handling skills I think we will be happy. And if Gillon can just compete well in the ACC it will be huge plus and get. I'm really hoping Howard makes a huge leap into his sophomore year. I thought he had all the skills but was a little bit of head case at times. If maturity playing year 2 will hopefully translate to huge bump in the quality of his play. Even without MR, I like our back court, or I should say, the potential of our back court.

Agreed. I never was the biggest fan of Ennis's overly under control game. I too think Battle is going to be pretty special and will be just fine whenever he is playing PG.

 

[General20]

He does show some interesting skills. I'm glad to have him.

A Cooney highlight tape would make him look like Jerry West.

And for all the people who complained about Cooney's 3 point shooting percentage . . . it was %16 higher than Gillon's was last season.

 

[Dave85]

And for all the people who complained about Cooney's 3 point shooting percentage . . . it was %16 higher than Gillon's was last season.

Anytime you post I always click "like" before I read it.

 

[jncuse]

The 38% and 36% shooting the last 2 years is a bit concerning from an efficiency perspective. For his role, I am fine with the move.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

A couple of quick things. We pursued three different grad transfers, but not all three were cut from the same cloth or viewed the same by the coaching staff. Mullins was a guy the staff went after--hard. They viewed him as a complimentary player who would provide terrific shooting, could play backup PG as he was the lead guard for Columbia, and had good size for the zone. They were trying to pitch him the potential for expanded PT if Mali didn't return.

Albrect was a desperation / stop gap involvement. It is very important to step back and recognize that we were facing a situation where if Mali bails we'd only have TWO GUARDS no next year's roster--Howard and Battle--neither of whom is a proven commodity. When Mullins [who the staff viewed as a good fit] opted to go elsewhere, then Albrect became a plan C fallback option--injury history and all. If we'd landed Albrect, the staff would have crossed their fingers hoping he would be healthy enough to play and give us the 10 minutes per game that some are artificially attributing to Gillon.

Gillon is small. That's literally the only knock on this kid. He could have gone to Oklahoma and been handed the keys to the team, since both of their guards are departing. Once the staff broke down his film, they loved his game. He wasn't brought in to sit--and will play major minutes whether as a starter or as a sub.

Ceiling is irrelevant. Sure, Howard has a higher "ceiling" because he's a sophomore, and this kid is a fifth year senior. Ceiling doesn't factor in much when the goal is to win this season.

"Ceiling" was re: Howard versus Joseph, not Howard versus Gillon.
Thanks for the exposition, but that really wasn't my point. We went out to get a 5th year/transfer for one general purpose — depth/insurance, not to find a starter. If he happens to be that good, so be it — i'm not asserting Howard has some legacy lock on the position. The fact that Gillon is "small" is pretty significant. It may be the "only knock," but it's a significant knock. Like saying DC 'can't jump.' I hope like hell Gillon can produce for us, of course — he's ours now. But, i'm also concerned it's going to be a bit of Kaleb redux. This guy has (much) more moxie and assertiveness than KJ had, but they're both small, and i have a feeling KJ could average 10-12 points a game if he played for Colorado State.

If he plays "major minutes," in a way, that says negative things about Battle and a lack of development from Howard... I'm expecting Battle to play A LOT. If Gillon and Howard split time, that wouldn't be at all a surprise.

 

[RF2044]

"Ceiling" was re: Howard versus Joseph, not Howard versus Gillon.
Thanks for the exposition, but that really wasn't my point. We went out to get a 5th year/transfer for one general purpose — depth/insurance, not to find a starter.

Your point was wrong. And bolded text above is little more than an unsubstantiated opinion with zero basis in fact. That's what the "exposition" explained, if you'd bothered to take the time to understand what was written.

Comparing KJ to Gillon only works if one is willing to overlook the fact that unlike KJ, Gillon has a great handle, is adept at driving, is an outstanding finisher, and has deep shooting range.

They are both short, I'll grant you that.

 

[orange2win]

Get used to it--they are going hardcore after Quade Green, who is exactly this same size.

Hardcore maybe, but a lot of competition.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/190793/quade-green

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Your point was wrong. And bolded text above is little more than an unsubstantiated opinion with zero basis in fact. That's what the "exposition" explained, if you'd bothered to take the time to understand what was written.

Comparing KJ to Gillon only works if one is willing to overlook the fact that unlike KJ, Gillon has a great handle, is adept at driving, is an outstanding finisher, and has deep shooting range.

They are both short, I'll grant you that.

Yes, it was opinion. Which is why i said "IMO, of course..." This is all speculation — what he will do for us. Yeah, if i'm wrong about the staff's intention, then, again — thanks, for informing me. I make no claims to having 'intimate' details from actual staff. And, forgive me for not knowing who you are, and whether you, in fact, do. My 'thanks' for the "exposition" was genuine, not snark, so your condescension is unwarranted. Aside from that, even in my so-called lack of understanding, you haven't said anything that i haven't said, except for your presumption of a greater possibility of him starting. Which, is also, at this stage, unsubstantiated opinion... Unless he's already been promised the job, which i highly doubt.*

Comparing KJ to Gillon... Well, one started for an entire season in the ACC. And, performed rather well in some summer action, if i recall — just not under JB. I, for one, do not conclude that his 'talents' or potential would ever be realized with us, but i do recognize that the player we saw, in either year, could show better in another situation. Which brings me back to the other point — the highlight reel of Gillon is quite nice, but so was that of KJ in high school. Glad that the staff has more real 'tape' to look at in assessing Gillon, but he was most likely a 1 or 2 option at CSU, and won't be that in the ACC.**


*Unsubstatiated opinion.
**Completely unsubstantiated opinion, contrary to hope.

 

[pfister1]

His stats are not bad:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/61915/john-gillon

They do play defense in the MW league. He had a lot more minutes and took a lot more shots his junior year so he was probably a bigger focus of the other team's defense. He's probably not going to have G's numbers but he will get some good PT in my opinion especially if MR does not come back.

I hope he spends the summer in Syracuse and works out everyday in the Melo Center. Beef up his weight a few pounds but not too much so he's just as fast.

Here is what I like. He both attempted and made more free throws than anybody on Syracuse last season. And he shoots 88% from the line. He did that in 3 fewer games than Syracuse played and fewer total minutes than Syracuse's 5 top minutes guys. He is not just a chucker.

 

[SoBeCuse]

On this KJ to Gillon issue: KJ started one season in the ACC because we had nobody else. It's my opinion that JB was grooming Silent G even at the beginning of that season for playing PG in the future. I truly believe he was like, 'Oh , this guy (KJ) can't hack it.' How many times did he fall down by himself on breakways or botch up a simple 2-on-1? I think those were major red flags. The meltdowns in games. Then it was pretty much all over his soph season when G was offically handed the keys. I'll be very surprised if Joseph can come close to producing at Creighton like how Gillon played at CSU.

 

[Dave85]

On this KJ to Gillon issue: KJ started one season in the ACC because we had nobody else. It's my opinion that JB was grooming Silent G even at the beginning of that season for playing PG in the future. I truly believe he was like, 'Oh , this guy (KJ) can't hack it.' How many times did he fall down by himself on breakways or botch up a simple 2-on-1? I think those were major red flags. The meltdowns in games. Then it was pretty much all over his soph season when G was offically handed the keys. I'll be very surprised if Joseph can come close to producing at Creighton like how Gillon played at CSU.

Once you get in JBs doghouse it's tough to get out. However, he did have plenty of opportunities during the 2015-16 season to redeem himself for the 2014-15 season. I wish good luck to him.

 

[zhanjuzi]

View attachment 62582

I'm still learning Photoshop. I could not figure out how to get rid of the white part. It's a work in progress.

Dave, No offense but its like my Uncle Sol used to say to me "I think you have a lot of talent but its been misdirected .."

 

[Dave85]

Dave, No offense but its like my Uncle Sol used to say to me "I think you have a
lot of talent but its been misdirected .."

LOL! No offense at all. My crotchety grandma used to say in an Edith Bunker voice, "If you don't have anything nice to say shut your God damn mouth!" My mother would hate it when she would say that! It's really funny now that I'm older!

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Yes, it was opinion. Which is why i said "IMO, of course..." This is all speculation — what he will do for us. Yeah, if i'm wrong about the staff's intention, then, again — thanks, for informing me. I make no claims to having 'intimate' details from actual staff. And, forgive me for not knowing who you are, and whether you, in fact, do. My 'thanks' for the "exposition" was genuine, not snark, so your condescension is unwarranted. Aside from that, even in my so-called lack of understanding, you haven't said anything that i haven't said, except for your presumption of a greater possibility of him starting. Which, is also, at this stage, unsubstantiated opinion... Unless he's already been promised the job, which i highly doubt.*

Comparing KJ to Gillon... Well, one started for an entire season in the ACC. And, performed rather well in some summer action, if i recall — just not under JB. I, for one, do not conclude that his 'talents' or potential would ever be realized with us, but i do recognize that the player we saw, in either year, could show better in another situation. Which brings me back to the other point — the highlight reel of Gillon is quite nice, but so was that of KJ in high school. Glad that the staff has more real 'tape' to look at in assessing Gillon, but he was most likely a 1 or 2 option at CSU, and won't be that in the ACC.**


*Unsubstatiated opinion.
**Completely unsubstantiated opinion, contrary to hope.

Are you comparing college videos to HS videos.
KJ could not play at the ACC level. Period.

 

[SBU72]

OMG, you're so negative!!

Just kidding. Kind of.

He's a complementary piece if Malachi returns. If not, he's going to play 20 minutes a game. Howard is far from a finished product offensively.

Conversely, when was the last time a kid commited to SU and DIDN'T get high praise as "fantastic get" or "love his..." or "he'll fit right in". Point is sometimes there are to many oragne tinted glasses reporting on a kid.

 

[Cusefan0307]

On this KJ to Gillon issue: KJ started one season in the ACC because we had nobody else. It's my opinion that JB was grooming Silent G even at the beginning of that season for playing PG in the future. I truly believe he was like, 'Oh , this guy (KJ) can't hack it.' How many times did he fall down by himself on breakways or botch up a simple 2-on-1? I think those were major red flags. The meltdowns in games. Then it was pretty much all over his soph season when G was offically handed the keys. I'll be very surprised if Joseph can come close to producing at Creighton like how Gillon played at CSU.

There haven't been very many transfers that have left SU and been successful.