Give JB one more year.

[Alsacs]

I know exactly what has been said. You said 23 wins and 8 losses is not good, with the talent we have coming in. As another poster pointed out, KY is 17-9 this year with all the talent they have. That's 7 seed range.

Talent alone doesn't guarantee a certain number of wins. 23 wins in the regular season and 2-4 post-season wins is a reason to force him out? Not for me. It is for you. That's fine. Nothing anyone says here matters. View attachment 122646

If Kentucky went 17-9 4 years in a row Kentucky fans would be in uproar.

We are irrelevant nationally right now.

 

[Alsacs]

That money is a sunk cost.

Spending money doesn’t make a fan in my book and it doesn’t entitle you to anything. You spent that money to be entertained.

What I am sure of is that random internet posters don’t get a vote in anything. Not who coaches, who plays, or what plays are run.

Your definition of a true fan would probably eliminate 75% of this board.

 

[Townie72]

Your definition of a true fan would probably eliminate 75% of this board.

I think a lower percentage, but maybe what draws people to these boards is frustration and venting. Neither are very attractive.

Oh, and I forgot about the opportunity to want to pass yourself off as smarter than JB.

 

[Alsacs]

I think a lower percentage, but maybe what draws people to these boards is frustration and venting. Neither are very attractive.

Oh, and I forgot about the opportunity to want to pass yourself off as smarter than JB.

Yeah because I always say I know more than JB.
Stop with this crap. I never claim to know more. Jeez you twist these arguments into these narratives you want because it fits your agenda.

JB makes mistakes. His mistakes can be discussed. You give him a pass for everything. What JB did to Mike Hopkins was disgraceful . Hop was forced out by his mentor.

JB is 73 years old and is the oldest coach in college basketball. He isn’t the future of the program. JB deserves criticism for putting his program on probation not one but twice. I root for the school and program.

JB isn’t the school or program he is part of it.
He isn’t god no matter what you think.

 

[djcon57]

honest question, can't we make one townie megathread? I'd be down with that.

Every thread turns into a fandom card waving competition. This is boring.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Again your moving the goalposts.
Nobody has argued against this post.
Continue on you are entertaining me now.

Moving the goalposts or making a strawman? I can’t figure our what vernacular you kids use these days? Can you?

What goalposts am I moving? Boehem’s record this year is slightly worse than Self’s,Roy William’s and Coach K’s...and the same as Calipari’s...and they alll have far superior talent.

Why?

 

[Townie72]

Yeah because I always say I know more than JB.
Stop with this crap. I never claim to know more. Jeez you twist these arguments into these narratives you want because it fits your agenda.

JB makes mistakes. His mistakes can be discussed. You give him a pass for everything. What JB did to Mike Hopkins was disgraceful . Hop was forced out by his mentor.

JB is 73 years old and is the oldest coach in college basketball. He isn’t the future of the program. JB deserves criticism for putting his program on probation not one but twice. I root for the school and program.

JB isn’t the school or program he is part of it.
He isn’t god no matter what you think.

Yeah because I always say I know more than JB.
Stop with this crap. I never claim to know more. Jeez you twist these arguments into these narratives you want because it fits your agenda.

JB makes mistakes. His mistakes can be discussed. You give him a pass for everything. What JB did to Mike Hopkins was disgraceful . Hop was forced out by his mentor.

JB is 73 years old and is the oldest coach in college basketball. He isn’t the future of the program. JB deserves criticism for putting his program on probation not one but twice. I root for the school and program.

JB isn’t the school or program he is part of it.
He isn’t god no matter what you think.

Two points. Do you have proof that JB forced Hop out? Without it I’d say that was an out and out lie from you. It’s a scurrilous slander based on suppositions and guessing on your part.

And JB is the SU basketball program and has been for many years. He built it and maintained it.

He made it into an all SU program with alums as coaches and SU alums understand this and support the guy.

For you to bring up the probations in this post in which JB was only tangentially involved shows how desperate you are to slime the guy.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

This post makes no sense because it’s predicated on a point no one is making.
However good job.

It shows you are spoiled as a new fan and don’t have perspective. The program didn’t start in 2003.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

Yeah because I always say I know more than JB.
Stop with this crap. I never claim to know more. Jeez you twist these arguments into these narratives you want because it fits your agenda.

JB makes mistakes. His mistakes can be discussed. You give him a pass for everything. What JB did to Mike Hopkins was disgraceful . Hop was forced out by his mentor.

JB is 73 years old and is the oldest coach in college basketball. He isn’t the future of the program. JB deserves criticism for putting his program on probation not one but twice. I root for the school and program.

JB isn’t the school or program he is part of it.
He isn’t god no matter what you think.

The question I asked origianally remains. When are you NOT ripping Boeheim?

And I won’t accept “yeah, you’re right. All i do is rip Boeheim. You got me. Well done. You got me pegged. Kudos to you. If you don’t like my posts just ignore me.”

And by the way...JB had done nothing but encourage Hop to stay. You have no clue. Ask your buddy VT, who was more than happy to PM me for inside info. You’re out of your depth here.

 

[Townie72]

honest question, can't we make one townie megathread? I'd be down with that.

Every thread turns into a fandom card waving competition. This is boring.

Right now my IPad shows 50 threads. I have posted comments in two of them.

4% of threads is not “every” thread.

 

[djcon57]

Just the dirt worst.

 

[dasher]

Two points. Do you have proof that JB forced Hop out? Without it I’d say that was an out and out lie from you. It’s a scurrilous slander based on suppositions and guessing on your part.

And JB is the SU basketball program and has been for many years. He built it and maintained it.

He made it into an all SU program with alums as coaches and SU alums understand this and support the guy.

For you to bring up the probations in this post in which JB was only tangentially involved shows how desperate you are to slime the guy.

I can't agree with the last line. You said Jb is Syracuse basketball. It's his program. He does the schedule. Not the A.D. The probation on two different occasions were on him. There is no way around that.

 

[Townie72]

I can't agree with the last line. You said Jb is Syracuse basketball. It's his program. He does the schedule. Not the A.D. The probation on two different occasions were on him. There is no way around that.

So you are saying he knew about the 10 page paper and approved of it?

Or that he was aware of or was involved in the YMCA jobs?

Your use of “on him” isn’t very descriptive.

Or do you agree with the NCAA idea that it doesn’t matter if he knew or not, he was there and he should have known?

In my view both of these were BS minor things that drew major punishments. Sort of like the bogus voiding of SUs 1990 lax championship.

Maybe I feel that way because I am an actual SU fan and my instinct is to defend the program against those who get so frustrated after loses they trash everything but Otto.

But they feel entitled to do this bitter complaining because they have bought tickets or they have been accustomed to more wins.

They ought to figure out qw

 

[dasher]

So you are saying he knew about the 10 page paper and approved of it?

Or that he was aware of or was involved in the YMCA jobs?

Your use of “on him” isn’t very descriptive.

Or do you agree with the NCAA idea that it doesn’t matter if he knew or not, he was there and he should have known?

In my view both of these were BS minor things that drew major punishments. Sort of like the bogus voiding of SUs 1990 lax championship.

Maybe I feel that way because I am an actual SU fan and my instinct is to defend the program against those who get so frustrated after loses they trash everything but Otto.

But they feel entitled to do this bitter complaining because they have bought tickets or they have been accustomed to more wins.

They ought to figure out qw

The first probation was started because we were using a street agent named Rob Johnson. Every real Syracuse fan knew at the time that we got off lightly because of what they could have found. The second time, yeah, I think Jb knew that they were trying to get fab back. He is the head of the program. Go figure. I doubt the academic adviser decided on his own to help fab with his paper. But I guess I'm not a real fan like you. I graduated from the school and arrange my activities around both football and basketball.

 

[CousCuse]

So you are saying he knew about the 10 page paper and approved of it?

Or that he was aware of or was involved in the YMCA jobs?

Your use of “on him” isn’t very descriptive.

Or do you agree with the NCAA idea that it doesn’t matter if he knew or not, he was there and he should have known?

In my view both of these were BS minor things that drew major punishments. Sort of like the bogus voiding of SUs 1990 lax championship.

Maybe I feel that way because I am an actual SU fan and my instinct is to defend the program against those who get so frustrated after loses they trash everything but Otto.

But they feel entitled to do this bitter complaining because they have bought tickets or they have been accustomed to more wins.

They ought to figure out qw

Boeheim either allowed of was bereft of his responsibility so that players on his team could referee charity games and make a couple hundred dollars and so the moral paragons of virtue who post here will forever hold him in disregard for this transgression. That is rotten crap right there.

 

[dasher]

Boeheim either allowed of was bereft of his responsibility so that players on his team could referee charity games and make a couple hundred dollars and so the moral paragons of virtue who post here will forever hold him in disregard for this transgression. That is rotten crap right there.

How about the term paper? That doesn't count? How about the drug program? That doesn't count? I think we got hit harder than we should have. But we were in the wrong.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I went into the season expecting NIT. Nothing has changed on that front and I was willing to give Boeheim a pass this year until the end of next season. It’s just tough with the injuries, Geno/TT bolting, streaky shooting, all the minutes logged, and having only one good ballhandler (two but HW is out) out there.

We’ll see what happens in terms of defections and such. I think there is a real possibility that some kids just don’t like him and don’t want to play in this system so they Adios asap.

Next year I definitely want to see some improvements. Better screening, better movement, better looks generated, tempo cranked up (likely a Frank VS Carey issue), and less hero ball/forced shots. I’d be happy with 23-24 wins since it would mean being firmly off the bubble and a solid season. But, if we are sweating out Selection Sunday again with all available hands on deck and still plodding on offense, then enough is enough. Hopefully Wildhack would pull the plug.

 

[bpo57]

I don’t agree. I know people don’t like Howard, but if we get the same production from him as this year plus more efficient production at every other position we will win a lot more games.

The decision making, the brutal turnovers, the lack of court awareness - they're all glaring to me. Just my two cents.

 

[hungrychuck]

So you are saying he knew about the 10 page paper and approved of it?

Or that he was aware of or was involved in the YMCA jobs?

Your use of “on him” isn’t very descriptive.

Or do you agree with the NCAA idea that it doesn’t matter if he knew or not, he was there and he should have known?

In my view both of these were BS minor things that drew major punishments. Sort of like the bogus voiding of SUs 1990 lax championship.

Maybe I feel that way because I am an actual SU fan and my instinct is to defend the program against those who get so frustrated after loses they trash everything but Otto.

But they feel entitled to do this bitter complaining because they have bought tickets or they have been accustomed to more wins.

They ought to figure out qw

Maybe “excelled in plausible deniability” should be added to JB’s HOF plaque.

 

[Townie72]

Maybe “excelled in plausible deniability” should be added to JB’s HOF plaque.

Maybe you are watching too much TV with all the conspiracies going on.

 

[AlaskaSU]

I am just sick of JB never doing anything differently.
We are just the obvious program in the nation.
All you need to do is watch 5 minutes and the scouting report is done.
We don’t change.

100% zone D
Full court press when down
ISO offense

That is the HC.
The team constantly makes undisciplined mistakes(non specific to this team I am talking since 2010.)

Plus JB is thin skinned. The guy is 71 it’s not like people are pushing him out young.

I get the next HC is a step back but as long as the school is committed to putting a winning product on the court the fanbase will support the program.

Kansas went from Larry Brown to Roy Williams to Bill Self.

Self went from Tulsa to Illinois before Kansas.

Syracuse could find a Self at smaller
School if they paid.

"but as long as the school is committed to putting a winning product on the court the fanbase will support the program."

Because we have had a successful program it is easy to assume that the school is committed to put a winning product on the court. Evidence is that the school is not financially committed, or maybe even able to, spend what it takes to be competitive. Aside from the Dome, JB built the program on the cheap. Kansas and Tucky have residential facilities that we will never match. Coming from behind, we should have an exceptional residential facility. Bling matters to these young future millionaires. Our improved locker room is still inferior to many of our competitors. Why assume that we would be willing, or able to, pay top dollar for a coach? When it comes to transition we will be in a vulnerable position. School support is a hindrance not a strength.

 

[Alsacs]

Two points. Do you have proof that JB forced Hop out? Without it I’d say that was an out and out lie from you. It’s a scurrilous slander based on suppositions and guessing on your part.

And JB is the SU basketball program and has been for many years. He built it and maintained it.

He made it into an all SU program with alums as coaches and SU alums understand this and support the guy.

For you to bring up the probations in this post in which JB was only tangentially involved shows how desperate you are to slime the guy.

Mike Hopkins was forced out.
Ask the people here who were close to him. He was put in a position of no win by Jim Boeheim.
Hop was loyal to JB and left so he wouldn’t force out JB who didn’t want to retire.
Also go watch Hopkins press conferences after his win over Arizona. He was asked if he has heard from JB congraulating him. Hop took the high road and said we will see but the truth was JB didn’t contact him after all Hop did.
You defend JB to the hills.
The guy did a great job but this program is above him.
He let the program slip and these past years on him. 4 consecutive medicore regular seasons.
It’s on him.
Sorry if I don’t give him a pass for life. The program is above one person.

 

[Townie72]

I went into the season expecting NIT. Nothing has changed on that front and I was willing to give Boeheim a pass this year until the end of next season. It’s just tough with the injuries, Geno/TT bolting, streaky shooting, all the minutes logged, and having only one good ballhandler (two but HW is out) out there.

We’ll see what happens in terms of defections and such. I think there is a real possibility that some kids just don’t like him and don’t want to play in this system so they Adios asap.

Next year I definitely want to see some improvements. Better screening, better movement, better looks generated, tempo cranked up (likely a Frank VS Carey issue), and less hero ball/forced shots. I’d be happy with 23-24 wins since it would mean being firmly off the bubble and a solid season. But, if we are sweating out Selection Sunday again with all available hands on deck and still plodding on offense, then enough is enough. Hopefully Wildhack would pull the plug.

Four more years of JB are assured.

Then he names his successor.

Wildhack acquiesces.

Given the likely decline of the program after JB, Wildhack isn’t going to grab the controls and start making high-risk decisions.

 

[Alsacs]

"but as long as the school is committed to putting a winning product on the court the fanbase will support the program."

Because we have had a successful program it is easy to assume that the school is committed to put a winning product on the court. Evidence is that the school is not financially committed, or maybe even able to, spend what it takes to be competitive. Aside from the Dome, JB built the program on the cheap. Kansas and Tucky have residential facilities that we will never match. Coming from behind, we should have an exceptional residential facility. Bling matters to these young future millionaires. Our improved locker room is still inferior to many of our competitors. Why assume that we would be willing, or able to, pay top dollar for a coach? When it comes to transition we will be in a vulnerable position. School support is a hindrance not a strength.

Melo Center is a top notch basketball facility.
The Dome brings big crowds.
We are close to NYC where a lot of talent is located.
Unlike football we have a good recruiting base.
Syracuse basketball will be fine as long as they pay market rate.
We aren’t a blue blood but we are an elite program.
JB built it up the program will survive him.

 

[Townie72]

Mike Hopkins was forced out.
Ask the people here who were close to him. He was put in a position of no win by Jim Boeheim.
Hop was loyal to JB and left so he wouldn’t force out JB who didn’t want to retire.
Also go watch Hopkins press conferences after his win over Arizona. He was asked if he has heard from JB congraulating him. Hop took the high road and said we will see but the truth was JB didn’t contact him after all Hop did.
You defend JB to the hills.
The guy did a great job but this program is above him.
He let the program slip and these past years on him. 4 consecutive medicore regular seasons.
It’s on him.
Sorry if I don’t give him a pass for life. The program is above one person.

I’ll stick with characterizing your description of the Hop departure as a scurrilous slander based on rumors and unnamed sources. I listened to Wildhack, Hopkins and Boeheim and they all said the same thing. I believe them.

Your description of events is a soap opera fantasy of what conspiracy theorists hope happened.

After JB the odds are that SU never consistently get better than a mid-tier ACC program.