Go low but bold

[Don]

It's time to come to grips with the changed face of upstate NY , population loss and what has replaced this population loss is people who don't care about foitball and in some cases may never even of heard of it. Syracuse is one of the poorest medium sized cities in the country. Add to that the attitudes about football safety and more and more people rethinking football for there youngsters and its not a great area for football. You can argue till your blue in the face about the how and the why's but the facts are staring the city in the fsce.

Now what does all the above crap have to do with Football and the dome? Well how about everything, the dome in its current configuration is an oversized concrete hulk with a iconic but outdated roof. With the current seating capacity it's going to remain a nice place to watch a game with the other 35000 people and 15000 empty seats all over the place. It's time to face facts the dome seating is too big period.

So be smart drop the capacity to 40,000 , widen the concourses, add more of an area for dinning at the dome before the games, bring in maybe a sattelits dinasaur bbq or vsrsity pizza type restaurant , add several boxes maybe 10 to 12 were parties can be held at the game, change all the seats to mesh or other comfortable style with seatbacks, clear more space for the band and other entertainment, change the acoustics so you can actually understand the announcements.

Todays central ny will not support 50000 seats in the dome consistently I don't care what kind of product is on the field it's not going to happen on a consistent basis the numbers , the money and the community don't add up.

So the renovation in my mind should go low but be bold about its concept.

That's my opinion what's yours?

 

[TheCusian]

Sounds good to me.

 

[rocklloyd]

If major reno, the plan is to drop at least 5k

 

[Finwad32]

In the major Reno plan, as rocklloyd said, the plan would be to install individual seating. This would drop capacity to 44-45k.

I think the plan they've discussed IS bold, unfortunately, funding/founders is/are not.

 

[xc84]

It's time to come to grips with the changed face of upstate NY , population loss and what has replaced this population loss is people who don't care about foitball and in some cases may never even of heard of it. Syracuse is one of the poorest medium sized cities in the country. Add to that the attitudes about football safety and more and more people rethinking football for there youngsters and its not a great area for football. You can argue till your blue in the face about the how and the why's but the facts are staring the city in the fsce.

Now what does all the above crap have to do with Football and the dome? Well how about everything, the dome in its current configuration is an oversized concrete hulk with a iconic but outdated roof. With the current seating capacity it's going to remain a nice place to watch a game with the other 35000 people and 15000 empty seats all over the place. It's time to face facts the dome seating is too big period.

So be smart drop the capacity to 40,000 , widen the concourses, add more of an area for dinning at the dome before the games, bring in maybe a sattelits dinasaur bbq or vsrsity pizza type restaurant , add several boxes maybe 10 to 12 were parties can be held at the game, change all the seats to mesh or other comfortable style with seatbacks, clear more space for the band and other entertainment, change the acoustics so you can actually understand the announcements.

Todays central ny will not support 50000 seats in the dome consistently I don't care what kind of product is on the field it's not going to happen on a consistent basis the numbers , the money and the community don't add up.

So the renovation in my mind should go low but be bold about its concept.

That's my opinion what's yours?

If renovations (new seating and concourses) requires a cut in the number of seats, so be it. However, if SU wins a lot, it can certainly support 50K...history shows it can.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

The area's social and economic issues aren't the reason the football team only gets lukewarm support. The basketball team can draw 30k for big games in an off year because they have had recent success. The football team hasn't had a really special year since 2001. A good start to a season and a 7-1 record would do wonders for attendance.

 

[OrangePA]

It's time to come to grips with the changed face of upstate NY , population loss and what has replaced this population loss is people who don't care about foitball and in some cases may never even of heard of it. Syracuse is one of the poorest medium sized cities in the country. Add to that the attitudes about football safety and more and more people rethinking football for there youngsters and its not a great area for football. You can argue till your blue in the face about the how and the why's but the facts are staring the city in the fsce.

Now what does all the above crap have to do with Football and the dome? Well how about everything, the dome in its current configuration is an oversized concrete hulk with a iconic but outdated roof. With the current seating capacity it's going to remain a nice place to watch a game with the other 35000 people and 15000 empty seats all over the place. It's time to face facts the dome seating is too big period.

So be smart drop the capacity to 40,000 , widen the concourses, add more of an area for dinning at the dome before the games, bring in maybe a sattelits dinasaur bbq or vsrsity pizza type restaurant , add several boxes maybe 10 to 12 were parties can be held at the game, change all the seats to mesh or other comfortable style with seatbacks, clear more space for the band and other entertainment, change the acoustics so you can actually understand the announcements.

Todays central ny will not support 50000 seats in the dome consistently I don't care what kind of product is on the field it's not going to happen on a consistent basis the numbers , the money and the community don't add up.

So the renovation in my mind should go low but be bold about its concept.

That's my opinion what's yours?

Sorry, but I think you're dead wrong.

If anything the seating capacity should be increased.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Sorry, but I think you're dead wrong.

If anything the seating capacity should be increased.

Unfortunately he's correct. The population/loss of major companies was the reason I was told seating is going to go down to ... wait for it ... 44k

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

OP is spot on. Die hard FB folks can't fathom that factors other than wins and losses impact attendance.
We used to have 8 FB tickets ( Bball also.) Now we have none. I don't miss going to the Dome at all.
I will watch on TV, if I am not otherwise busy, but SU FB is no longer a priority.
All of my kids were taken to games when young, but none care about SU FB at all.

 

[xc84]

Unfortunately he's correct. The population/loss of major companies was the reason I was told seating is going to go down to ... wait for it ... 44k

I was told it was because we are adding seats that take up more space per person than the bleachers seat. That's why the number is decreasing.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Eliminating 20% of the seating capacity also means eliminating 20% of the basketball seats.

A 40,000 seat Dome will only have 16,000 decent basketball seats.

It's a shame you want to punish the loyal customers who support the sport that we are able to draw record crowds in.

 

[xc84]

OP is spot on. Die hard FB folks can't fathom that factors other than wins and losses impact attendance.
We used to have 8 FB tickets ( Bball also.) Now we have none. I don't miss going to the Dome at all.
I will watch on TV, if I am not otherwise busy, but SU FB is no longer a priority.
All of my kids were taken to games when young, but none care about SU FB at all.

Actually it is the opposite of what you say. Diehards go whether win or loss. Fair weather fans go when they are winners...like in the 90s. People like leaving games elated and so many losses dampened the enthusiasm of many who were there for the wins.

 

[xc84]

Eliminating 20% of the seating capacity also means eliminating 20% of the basketball seats.

A 40,000 seat Dome will only have 16,000 decent basketball seats.

It's a shame you want to punish the loyal customers who support the sport that we are able to draw record crowds in.

Punish? It's a matter of making the dome nicer. The seats will be better. I honestly don't mind the bleachers but some do. If you are saying there will only be 16,000 good seats, that means there are only 20,000 now given your 20% reduction number. In reality, the dome holds 49K now so going to 44K is 10% reduction.

 

[UnknownOrange]

I was told it was because we are adding seats that take up more space per person than the bleachers seat. That's why the number is decreasing.

It's certainly a mixture of both. When I asked why we'd drop to 44 .. "It's not 1980 anymore. All these big companies took thousands out of CNY" .. then I saw the seating and was like okay that makes sense too lol

 

[UnknownOrange]

Eliminating 20% of the seating capacity also means eliminating 20% of the basketball seats.

A 40,000 seat Dome will only have 16,000 decent basketball seats.

It's a shame you want to punish the loyal customers who support the sport that we are able to draw record crowds in.

It won't be 40k

 

[xc84]

It's certainly a mixture of both. When I asked why we'd drop to 44 .. "It's not 1980 anymore. All these big companies took thousands out of CNY" .. then I saw the seating and was like okay that makes sense too lol

If they want seats with seat backs in the same space, they have to reduce seating because they take up more space per "seat". That is with or without job losses.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

It won't be 40k

They can eliminate 4 seats per row just by renumbering the seats.

You can't get 34 people across in a row anymore. Maybe 30 years ago you could. But not anymore.

The universe is constantly expanding. And so is everyone's waistline.

 

[Trueblue25]

replace with individual seating and keep it around 44-45,ooo. There's just below 500,000 people in our metropolitan area and fans travel to each game from Rochester/Albany/Utica/Binghamton as well.

45,000 is not too lofty a goal, especially if Dino reenergizes this program. What SU really should do is target the younger, post-grad professional population and continue to spread the news about the surprisingly affordable great seating.

My friends and I have 3rd level seating directly over the 50 for 225 a year. That's a fantastic deal. Throw in 50 for where we park and the tailgating/football games themselves quickly have become what we look forward to all year long.

We just gotta put the product on the field, advertise bigger/bolder, and yeah reduce from 50,000ish to 45.

 

[UnknownOrange]

If they want seats with seat backs in the same space, they have to reduce seating because they take up more space per "seat". That is with or without job losses.

Looking at attendance numbers for football the last 16 years ... it's smarted to reduce seating anyway lol

 

[TheCusian]

Using the last 15 years of attendance data is probably a dumb idea, given the product on the field. At the rate the dome reno is moving combined with the rate of improvement Dino is expecting, we'll see what it looks like with a winning team on the move over the next two years.

Some of it's chicken and egg stuff too. If it were more comfortable, better amenities, wider concourses, better parking, etc - you'd see an attendance increase.

 

[Cusester]

They can eliminate 4 seats per row just by renumbering the seats.

You can't get 34 people across in a row anymore. Maybe 30 years ago you could. But not anymore.

The universe is constantly expanding. And so is everyone's waistline.

In 1990 Delaware and the District of Columbia had the highest rate of obesity at 14.4%. In 2015 no state had an obesity rate below 20%. Sad.

 

[nccusefan]

There are 3 things impacting football attendance.

The biggest difference is that most games these games are televised and the quality of TVs has greatly improved.

The area populations has stayed fairly steady since the Dome was built. The problem is the population that has stayed in the area is an aging population. Many of those that have moved away are 25-55.

Lastly we have produced a bad product on the field without results.

With rising costs to attend games and better options to watch at home it is important to not only put a winning team on the field and make going to games be about the expierience. Going to a game needs to be an event with modern comforts and technologies.

One suggestion to help pay for it would be opening it up for other events that could generate money. With AC there could be events held there through the summer that wouldn't have to interfere with basketball or football.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Using the last 15 years of attendance data is probably a dumb idea, given the product on the field. At the rate the dome reno is moving combined with the rate of improvement Dino is expecting, we'll see what it looks like with a winning team on the move over the next two years.

Some of it's chicken and egg stuff too. If it were more comfortable, better amenities, wider concourses, better parking, etc - you'd see an attendance increase.

Okay so imagine the Dome reno was the hot topic in Greg Robinson's off-season going into his first year. You can project whatever you'd like to project. That's great. I hope Dino goes undefeated the next three years.

But build to your population and demand. Yes the last 15 years the product has stunk. However the last 15 years the population has only shrank by 2k people. in 1980 we had 26 thousand more people. 1990 was 19k more.

I am fine with 44K for the attendance in the Dome.

 

[OttoMets]

It's certainly a mixture of both. When I asked why we'd drop to 44 .. "It's not 1980 anymore. All these big companies took thousands out of CNY" .. then I saw the seating and was like okay that makes sense too lol

Yikes, it makes me cringe to think that someone who uses logic like that is making decisions at SU. Though it shouldn't surprise us. Home of Bowie and all...

There could be a lot of reasons (television, physical constraints with bleacher replacement, creating scarcity) to reduce capacity. Citing a population loss (not factually accurate) is a weird one for your colleague to have pulled out of the air.

 

[General20]

Lots of false information and bad assumptions in this thread.

First the population of Onondaga County has held steady for quite a while now. There hasn't been any population drop since the SU football attendance numbers started declining.

Second, Syracuse isn't an aging city. Its quite the reverse actually, the old people are leaving and being replaced by younger people. As a population Syracuse continues to get younger.

There are several reasons attendance at SU is bad.

The main one is, Football is not a way of life in this area of the country. People won't support it just because its football. Syracuse is going to have to earn every butt in the seats, and they have failed to do so on the field where they've been a losing team for years, in the overall game experience where they need to invest in the tailgating/pregame experience, and with customer service.

With the availability and quality of TV programming there aren't a lot of good reasons to see a game if you're not a football die hard.

Change the quality of the team or the quality of the game/pregame experience and attendance will increase. Also, I get why Gross had an advertising campaign in NYC, it probably helped us get into the ACC, but that's no longer necessary. Spend that same money advertising in Rochester, Binghamton, and Utica, and watch attendance at games start to go up.