Go low but bold

[UnknownOrange]

Yikes, it makes me cringe to think that someone who uses logic like that is making decisions at SU. Though it shouldn't surprise us. Home of Bowie and all...

There could be a lot of reasons (television, physical constraints with bleacher replacement, creating scarcity) to reduce capacity. Citing a population loss (not factually accurate) is a weird one for your colleague to have pulled out of the air.

Well... there is 26 thousand less people living here than in 1980. So..

 

[Cusefan0307]

I mean more people live in Onondaga County now than there was in 2000 which was supposedly the golden age of football. A quick Google search would have pointed that out. Lazy Narrative.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Well... there is 26 thousand less people living here than in 1980. So..

453,000 people in Onondaga County in 2006. Almost 470,000 now. You can't use the same narratives you used in the 90's now. Syracuse bottomed out a long time ago and you were filling the Carrier Dome then. What Changed?

 

[UnknownOrange]

453,000 people in Onondaga County in 2000. Almost 470,000 now. You can't use the same narratives you used in the 90's now. Syracuse bottomed out a long time ago and you were filling the Carrier Dome then. What Changed?

I must be googling the wrong info then. I'm not sure what changed to be honest. I'd say there's many factors to why you reduce seating or why people are coming or not coming ... but I didn't mean to come off as the ONLY reason they'd reduce seating was because of population.

 

[SU68]

You want to increase attendance? Black out the LOCAL telecasts.

 

[OttoMets]

Well... there is 26 thousand less people living here than in 1980. So..

Was that in the MSA? Because my quick check of county numbers showed us up 4,500 from 1980. The epitome of stagnant, for sure, but not a loss.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Was that in the MSA? Because my quick check of county numbers showed us up 4,500 from 1980. The epitome of stagnant, for sure, but not a loss.

Apparently I was looking at Syracuse numbers not onondaga county .. so my mistake!

 

[TheCusian]

Okay so imagine the Dome reno was the hot topic in Greg Robinson's off-season going into his first year. You can project whatever you'd like to project. That's great. I hope Dino goes undefeated the next three years.

But build to your population and demand. Yes the last 15 years the product has stunk. However the last 15 years the population has only shrank by 2k people. in 1980 we had 26 thousand more people. 1990 was 19k more.

I am fine with 44K for the attendance in the Dome.

Miraculously, basketball attendance has weathered the decline in population just fine.

To be clear, I'm fine with a reduction of seats if the experience gets better. I'm just not sure we know how many seats we can fill with a good football product over 2-3 years.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Miraculously, basketball attendance has weathered the decline in population just fine.

To be clear, I'm fine with a reduction of seats if the experience gets better. I'm just not sure we know how many seats we can fill with a good football product over 2-3 years.

I think a demand for more seating is just the problem SU wants to have lol

 

[SUskibum]

Miraculously, basketball attendance has weathered the decline in population just fine.

Mid-week, freezing temps, high winds and snow covered roads for the drive and snow covered sidewalks for the walk to the dome.

And yet... they come.

I can't imagine it's just because upstate New York loves the game of basketball so much better than football (they certainly didn't when I lived there in the 90's.)

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Actually it is the opposite of what you say. Diehards go whether win or loss. Fair weather fans go when they are winners...like in the 90s. People like leaving games elated and so many losses dampened the enthusiasm of many who were there for the wins.

It's exactly what I said. The non-diehards won't come back just because of winning. Many have moved on from FB. If it's a big name opponent, they will come, but 8-2 SU vs Wake isn't going to get 50K in the seats.

 

[xc84]

It's exactly what I said. The non-diehards won't come back just because of winning. Many have moved on from FB. If it's a big name opponent, they will come, but 8-2 SU vs Wake isn't going to get 50K in the seats.

Diehards don't need to come back. They haven't left. That's why they are diehards.

 

[rocklloyd]

Correct

I was told it was because we are adding seats that take up more space per person than the bleachers seat. That's why the number is decreasing.

 

[Ish88888]

If renovations (new seating and concourses) requires a cut in the number of seats, so be it. However, if SU wins a lot, it can certainly support 50K...history shows it can.

History shows it, but it's just that, HISTORY. Way before the electronic, connected age, HD tvs, and every game , every week in tv. Makes a huge difference! If we are top 25 and fun we still dont pack in 50k every week. Make the ticket more valuable like the pirates, orioles, padres, twins have done, all markets with attendance problems. They went from 50k to 35kish and improved attendance. Even NFL teams have done it. All NFL teams dont have 80k plus. Most dont realize the steelers, heinz field maxes out at 65k.

 

[upperdeck]

remove 10% of the seats doesnt mean you have to lose any "good" ball seats. Wasnt part of the plan trying to rework the location of the court? if you moved if 10-20 yards towards midfield and reworked it so you had both sides move in you could actually create more seats that would be much closer so that the 15K that people try to get for the big games would be decent and perhaps more people would buy they more often instead of just 1-2 times a yr.

 

[Ish88888]

Miraculously, basketball attendance has weathered the decline in population just fine.

To be clear, I'm fine with a reduction of seats if the experience gets better. I'm just not sure we know how many seats we can fill with a good football product over 2-3 years.

Good point. Basketball will always easily out attend fb in the north. Its easier to understand, its the "thing" at SU. people go and sit in those ridiculous upper deck seats just to say they were there. I get it, a brand. That said, the fb fan in the north is different and will only attend when the team is good. I think 45k should be our max. Make fans scramble for tix when we are finally good instead of just walking up. FB has become a tv sport from the NFL down. Its just a better experience on tv minus all the BS , $$$, and time invested into attending. Don't get me wrong, myself and most on this board appreciate the live product, but we are probably in the 25th percentile on this.

 

[nccusefan]

It's exactly what I said. The non-diehards won't come back just because of winning. Many have moved on from FB. If it's a big name opponent, they will come, but 8-2 SU vs Wake isn't going to get 50K in the seats.

If we are ever 8-2 we probably have already played Wake :rolling:

 

[tipphill]

You want to increase attendance? Black out the LOCAL telecasts.

and win

 

[Don]

Between 2010 and 2016
Onondaga county had 9938 foreign immigrants move into the county, it had 13400 domestic people migrate from the county. A loss of about 3 percent, the foreign immigrants many from areas that have no football other than the round one played all over the world.
Basketball will do better than football among the new population because it's w world sport, football with the round ball is a world sport, football with the pigskin is not,

The population has changed these are the facts and they are undisputed . Onondaga county now is much different than it was. Also it is undisputed that the city of Syracuse has a large part of its population that are in poverty and can't afford to attend football games. The overall population may in fact be about the same as it was but flat out its not the same population as it was.

Is that the only reason attendance has gone down like it has, the answer is no, however it must be one of the factors that is looked at.

I'm more interested in what other items can be brought into the dome than just the seats. I think the private boxes would be great, a local flair to entertainment. Common nobody can sat the love the pa announcements

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

In case anyone is interested in the actual census numbers and comparisons from 2000 to 2010:

 

[orangehomer]

we've sucked for almost 15 years in a row. we have essentially lost close to two generations of possible fans. and you guys are writing about population loss. LOL. you know why people don't go to games? because there is nothing worse than watching our team get rolled by every decent team that comes in here. i'm a diehard and even i have a hard time walking up there for the crap we have been subjected to.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

we've sucked for almost 15 years in a row. we have essentially lost close to two generations of possible fans. and you guys are writing about population loss. LOL. you know why people don't go to games? because there is nothing worse than watching our team get rolled by every decent team that comes in here. i'm a diehard and even i have a hard time walking up there for the crap we have been subjected to.

Thank you. Just win baby. You win, you sell tickets, you pack the dome even if the only thing you sell is crap hot dogs and Pabst Blue Ribbon.

 

[sufandu]

OP is spot on. Die hard FB folks can't fathom that factors other than wins and losses impact attendance.
We used to have 8 FB tickets ( Bball also.) Now we have none. I don't miss going to the Dome at all.
I will watch on TV, if I am not otherwise busy, but SU FB is no longer a priority.
All of my kids were taken to games when young, but none care about SU FB at all.

How old are your kids? Did they grow up only knowing crappy to occasional mediocre football? If my formative years had been post McNabb I'd probably be apathetic too. I was lucky enough to grow up in the late 80's into the 90's and remember when a 6 win season was a down year and only a blip. I'm surprised anyone born after '85 is a fan. We've lost a generation of fans and need some prolonged success to avoid losing another.

 

[shandeezy7]

How old are your kids? Did they grow up only knowing crappy to occasional mediocre football? If my formative years had been post McNabb I'd probably be apathetic too. I was lucky enough to grow up in the late 80's into the 90's and remember when a 6 win season was a down year and only a blip. I'm surprised anyone born after '85 is a fan. We've lost a generation of fans and need some prolonged success to avoid losing another.

'85 is a stretch. Kids born in the late 80's would have been in their formative years right around when McNabb was doing his thing on the Hill. Now if you were born post 1990, you probably haven't enjoyed much success, at least that you can really remember.

 

[sufandu]

'85 is a stretch. Kids born in the late 80's would have been in their formative years right around when McNabb was doing his thing on the Hill. Now if you were born post 1990, you probably haven't enjoyed much success, at least that you can really remember.

Certainly they were alive but not all cared yet. I didn't really understand and pay attention to sports as a spectator until I was about 12. For someone born in '85 that's the end of the McNabb era, which may have been enough to grab some, but the post McNabb erosion certainly lost a lot. Regardless, arguing '85 versus '90 is nitpicking. The point remains the same. A generation of fans has been lost, and that age group is at the point where they'd be buying tickets now if they had been given a reason to care. You'll probably see them at basketball games.