Guys you wish had panned out

[Oakland]

As far as guys who stayed, the #1 guy has to be Edelin. As another poster has described, GMAC was a 2 guard forced into being a point guard. Edelin's drives to the basket would have set up Gerry's outside game perfectly. I agree that Paul Harris didn't live up to the hype but had a productive career in any case. He wasn't a bust.

They did play for half of 03-04. However, when Billy left mid season, the team changed from an offense oriented one to a defensive one which I thought was better. I still think of that as the ying/yang season.

 

[OttoMets]

There was a friend or family member of his on this board that responded to some of my posts about him. Wonder if their still around to shed some light on it? Last time I heard they were trying to get Dayshawn to ply his trade overseas.

He's not that old, it's conceivable that he could find minutes overseas.

 

[OttoMets]

Edelin is, of course, my 1b to Duncan's 1a. Not placing blame on Billy; he had a rough time. But I think we would have been 10 wins better with him on the team consistently from 2004-2006 and that he would have ended up the third-best point in school history by his senior year. We missed him.

Terrence Roberts is high on the list; as others have noted, he looked awesome against the Globetrotters and that other exhibition team in fall 2003. 6'9" with guard skills didn't translate in the Big East against other good players, though, and it also turned out that he had hands of stone. Playing on a torn meniscus (and still getting like 7.5 rebounds per), on the other hand, was a selfless thing to do as a senior.

Walton, yeah. Boeheim would have liked him. We wouldn't have had to try that experiment with Otis at the four (and Etan playing the five until halftime, at which point he'd foul out). Probably could've kept the 20-win streak alive and gotten us into the tournament. You know, if he hadn't been a lazy 18-year-old who decided to have someone else take the SAT for him. Oy.

No love for Conrad? He was a McD's guy and probably a player who could have boosted our win totals and tournament success with relatively decent (~13 and 8) numbers. Alas, another kid with stone hands. And another guy who was also loyal and likeable - he showed great patience in dealing with the NCAA shenanigans and suspensions for his last two years.

I was also sorry to see LeSean Howard go. He showed flashes of solid play.

Should Devendorf get a mention? He got McD's honors and was practically ambidextrous - surely no Syracuse player has ever been better at scoring with both hands. But his improvement was minimal, his defensive effort was consistently poor, and he made a fair number of freshman turnovers every year. (And we're also limiting this discussion to on-court behavior.) With his skill-set, Devendorf really could have made a run at Moten's scoring total in four years. Instead...no.

LeRon Ellis. So you average 16 points per game as a sophomore at Kentucky and transfer to Syracuse right as Rony Seikaly vacates his position for you. Your field-goal percentage drops by 7% and you score 6 points per game (with Sherman Douglas feeding the low post, no less!). 11 and 8 as a senior was better, but I'm sure the coaches expected a lot more.

Honorable mention to Kris Joseph. We all like him and acknowledge that his teams were quite successful, but one can't help thinking that the play didn't always match the talent. In his last 2.5 years, only his shooting improved. Health might have been a concern, but a lot of us were justified in thinking that he'd improve his handle, become a 20-point-per-game scorer, and probably take his 5.5/game rebounding average and increase it. None of those things happened.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I liked Michael Lloyd a lot, and think he could have been a very good player for us had he stayed another year. Guy had NBA athleticism, and was playing PG for the first time in his career and just beginning to figure things out.

But I'm not sure that we go to the '96 championship game with him at the helm instead of Z. The stars really aligned for that team, with a superstar like John Wallace deferring to Z as the on the court quarterback.

Then again, maybe Lloyd would have shifted off the ball and given us more scoring than what Cipolla / Janulis provided. Guess we'll never know.

I view that as similar to how Flynn's departure opened the door for the Rautins' led squad to really embrace the zone, and all of the carryover from that we're still seeing.

 

[Eric15]

For me it would have to be Z. I'm not saying he was a bust, but there always seemed to be so much more there just under the surface.

It's interesting you say that, because if the question was flipped and we were asked what player do you think OVERachieved the most, I would have said Lazarus Sims.

 

[newmexicuse]

Donyell Marshall - all but set to go to the Cuse & then Probation hit.

Also, there was a kid who committed & didn't qualify from the 70's or 80's who was a big-time NYC recruit, but I am not remembering his name. He was the Pearl of his day in terms of the excitement factor though I do not believe he was a PG. Any long in the toothers here have a better memory than me as to that kid's name. I would know it if I heard it.

 

[IthacaMatt]

This seems like a good topic for the off season - which Syracuse players were you really excited about when we signed, that never really panned out?

Here's my list -

Rock Lloyd

Lasean Howard

Eric Williams

Winfred Walton

Any others you have a soft spot for?

Rock Lloyd could have been Dion before Dion.

Lesean Howard was a nice athlete, but nothing special - kind of like Mike Jones after him.

Eric Williams got beat out by Damone Brown. He had the tools, but lacked the head.

Winfred Walton - wow, there's a blast from the past. Let's hope that McCullough doesn't turn out to be the next Walton.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Winfred Walton, Josh Wright, Dayshawn Wright. Many of the other players imo did pan out. They just did it somewhere else. Anthony Harris, Rock Lloyd, Sekunda, Bland, Tony Scott, Richard Manning, Lazor, Gelatt all had some success other places. Bland and Manning are 2 that would have been particularly useful the year after they left.

Ah, the bad old days, when recruiting sucked, and we took so many players who were borderline talent, lacked hoops IQ and were not good teammates.

For those who question the "coach in waiting" concept - that list above is all the reason you need to understand why Mike has earned first shot at succeeding Boeheim. Recruiting will keep on rolling with him at the helm. What he does with them, we'll find out, but we won't suffer because we don't have a guy who can recruit.

 

[joct]

Donyell Marshall - all but set to go to the Cuse & then Probation hit.

Also, there was a kid who committed & didn't qualify from the 70's or 80's who was a big-time NYC recruit, but I am not remembering his name. He was the Pearl of his day in terms of the excitement factor though I do not believe he was a PG. Any long in the toothers here have a better memory than me as to that kid's name. I would know it if I heard it.

Not sure if this is who you are thinking of -- but in the late 80's there was a kid named Karlton Hines out of NYC that signed with SU, and from what I remember he was a top recruit. 6-5 with a ton of ability. However he had a lot of issues, dropped out of HS his senior year (or was kicked out), never went back, got into some bad things (to put it mildly), and was dead at 25. There are some documentaries made about him out there on youtube. A real sad story.

 

[moqui]

Other than perhaps Michael Edwards, I don't think I've ever been more underwhelmed when I saw a player in preseason practice than I was with Josh Wright. When I used to live in Syracuse, my father and I would head up to Manley dozens of times in the preseason to catch practice--and I used to do a lot of practice / player write-ups for an earlier incarnation of the board.

Wright was fast, but that was the extent of his D1 ability. He was slight of build, had a negligible handle, and was tremendously shaky offensively. He looked flat out AWFUL the first time I saw him, handling the ball against pressure. Made the same mistake over and over getting trapped against the sideline and making a weak and predictable jump pass back out toward the middle.

I knew we were in trouble with him the first time I saw him, and doubted he'd ever make an impact as a point guard here.

It is shocking how everyone - the recruiting services, the various coaches who recruited him, and especially JB - missed on this kid.

I don't know whether it is accurate or not, but a Syracuse recruiting legend has it that JB virtually had his pick of Wright, AJ Price and Kyle Lowry and offered the spot to the first one who accepted, which is how we got Wright. At the time, I remember reading how he had outplayed Sebastian Telfair on the AAU circuit

 

[newmexicuse]

Not sure if this is who you are thinking of -- but in the late 80's there was a kid named Karlton Hines out of NYC that signed with SU, and from what I remember he was a top recruit. 6-5 with a ton of ability. However he had a lot of issues, dropped out of HS his senior year (or was kicked out), never went back, got into some bad things (to put it mildly), and was dead at 25. There are some documentaries made about him out there on youtube. A real sad story.

Bingo - that is the kid - thx !! I knew he had issues, but I had forgotten exactly how sad his story turned out.

 

[moqui]

Actor/director Nick Cassavetes has claimed in the past that he attended Syracuse on a basketball scholarship, but hurt his knee, never played, and dropped out of school. I have my doubts about this.

The claim has been scrubbed from his IMDB page, but you can still see it in other online bios.

but just imagine, we could have had this guy as a defensive stopper

 

[cuseclappy]

Should Devendorf get a mention? He got McD's honors and was practically ambidextrous - surely no Syracuse player has ever been better at scoring with both hands. But his improvement was minimal, his defensive effort was consistently poor, and he made a fair number of freshman turnovers every year. (And we're also limiting this discussion to on-court behavior.) With his skill-set, Devendorf really could have made a run at Moten's scoring total in four years. Instead...no.quote]





I have to respectuflly disagree on devo. didnt he finish top 5 in all time points? he came in with a rep as a scorer and did just that. played his heart out for su and probably would have left as our all time leading scorer if he was around 1 more year. just because we didnt go to a final 4 with him i wouldnt consider him a bust

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Actor/director Nick Cassavetes has claimed in the past that he attended Syracuse on a basketball scholarship, but hurt his knee, never played, and dropped out of school. I have my doubts about this.

The claim has been scrubbed from his IMDB page, but you can still see it in other online bios.

but just imagine, we could have had this guy as a defensive stopper

You may not have realized this, fellow fans, but Moqui put three separate links in the "other online bios" part of his post.

That's HOF level stuff.

 

[moqui]

thanks, Otto; I wondered if anyone would catch that

 

[OttoMets]

I have to respectuflly disagree on devo. didnt he finish top 5 in all time points? he came in with a rep as a scorer and did just that. played his heart out for su and probably would have left as our all time leading scorer if he was around 1 more year. just because we didnt go to a final 4 with him i wouldnt consider him a bust

That's what I mean - not a bust, but he had a lot of talent and never really capitalized on it. (I know he ended up with about 1,600 points - nowhere close to top-five, but certainly in the top 15 or 20; I looked at this recently when wondering where C.J. will end up.)

Devendorf came in as a great scorer and left as a pretty good scorer. Not a lot of development elsewhere; a pretty one-dimensional player: really careless with the ball, average distributor (at best), and a really poor defender. And while his outside shooting was really good (not sure exactly, but it's way above 35% for his career [just looked it up - .378, seventh all-time at SU]), his overall field-goal shooting was very average.

When a 6'4" McDonald's guard with that skillset comes in, expectations are high. In Devendorf, I see a guy with a solid 3.3-year scoring average and not a lot more. Absolutely not a bust, but kind of a "didn't pan out."

 

[LennX6]

Chuck Gelatt. Good one. Wasn't he a pretty good long range shooter for a big? Or at least believed he was?

Really good one, I totally went "Chuck Who?" I seriously don't remember him.

 

[LennX6]

That 2003 class had two guys that were ridiculous athletes and were impressive to look at, but lacked any basketball skill. Another guy that had the size and shooting to become a great player, but lacked the mental toughness to become a star. And then there was Louis, I have no words for Louis.

Louis on the court looked like a man amongst boys. He looked on the court like Sammy Sosa used to look to the rest of the Cubs. But he couldn't play. He sure looked like he should play very well, but didn't. Paul Harris kinda the same thing but at least Paul had nice moments and wasn't such a t*rd.

 

[LennX6]

Agree with this [and preceding posts] about how frustrating TRob was.

But after he played that last part of his senior year on a bad knee, sporting that large knee brace, and gutted it out to finish the year for the team as opposed to shutting it down for surgery, I vowed not to ever bad mouth the kid again.

I just posted similarly above about players that "looked" like they should have been better than they were .Terrence fits that one. Like Paul Harris he had his time to shine but, boy, he should have been 17 pts-12 boards a night, every night.

 

[Cowtown]

Agree on Edelin and on Mike Jones. Jones' offensive talent was needed desperately during the entire time he was/wasn't here.

 

[OrangeDW]

... and that's how much hype he had.

He was hyped as being great, but ended up being good.

When I think of guys who "didnt pan out" I don't think of good, productive players. I think of mediocre/bad players who had potential but never really did much beyond showing some flashes. I guess it's in how you look at it.

 

[orange2win]

Two McDAAs, Michael Lloyd and Rodney Walker. Lloyd all the way from Texas and he did not pan out. Walker upset with playing time transferred to Maryland.

Two Parade All-American guards, Ramel Lloyd (Bronx) and Anthony Harris (Danbury) could have been great, but transferred. Tony Scott (Rochester) a forward with lots of potential also transferred.

 

[cuseinseattle]

What about Dave Bing? He came to Syracuse when they were riding a huge winning streak and had all those great players around him and never amounted to much. I'm kidding.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Paul Harris was a decent role player who was supposed to be the next Carmel Anthony.

 

[kirbivore]

We have no shortage of guys that could fill this list, but if you're looking for someone who would have been an impact player and exponentially changed the out come of a two season stretch, the answers have to be Winfred Walton and Billy Edelin

Winfred Walton was the "Next DC". The annointed heir to John Wallace. He was the next #44. He would have turned what was ultimately a successful class (Jason Hart, Etan Thomas, later Ryan Blackwell) into a phenomenal class. The dark years of 1997 and 1998 would have been wiped off the map. Walton was that good. He would have anchored that team in the paint and allowed Otis Hill to play in 1997 the way he played in 1995 and 1996. SU would have been a monster team.

I wouldn't call 1998 a "dark" year. They made the sweet 16 as a 5 seed and lost to 1 seed Duke.