HCDM is to HC Frank Maloney as ACC Membership is to opening Carrier Dome?

[xc84]

4 Years in the NFL at safety is hardly a "cup of coffee" career. I'd like to see what the average career span is.

Hurley, IMHO, was one of the Top 7 all time SU QBs and vastly superior to anyone since McNabb by leaps and bounds.

He played 3 years (23 games in the NFL). That's not a "long" career. It may even be average and not "cup of coffee"...but it's not a long career in the NFL. Art Monk had a long career. Hurley was certainly a good, exciting player for SU and a very good athlete.

 

[xc84]

Maloney was a really nice guy. I was just a kid when he was at SU but I recall, in his first season, he spoke at my grammar school sports banquet. Great guy.

 

[Bornorange]

My first memory of Bill Hurley was watching him fumble a punt into the end zone and taking a knee.
Glad he became a QB.

 

[GoSU96]

If so then; the next HC is the one prophesied to return us to greatness?

End of a looooooooooooooong Mooooooooooooooonday !!! LOL !!!
GO ORANGE !

Yeesh.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Ashton, Smith, and Gulley running the option would make me happy and would put a lot of butts in the seats for at least a few games.

Isn't a full back up the middle a mainstay of an option offense? We go up the middle already and no one finds that too interesting.

 

[Ozcuse]

Isn't a full back up the middle a mainstay of an option offense? We go up the middle already and no one finds that too interesting.

It would be a part of it but you gotta keep em guessing. If we wanted to do something purely to be "interesting", we would go shotgun empty backfield 24/7. It would be entertaining but without the right personnel it would be a bloodbath.

 

[jscene]

As far as assistants, Maloney also brought in Ivan Fears.

 

[Townie72]

My first memory of Bill Hurley was watching him fumble a punt into the end zone and taking a knee.
Glad he became a QB.

Actually, he failed to field the ball --- a kick off --- in the end zone, playing it as it were a punt and a dead ball. It wasn't.

It was against Villanova, a game in which SU fell behind and then had to scramble to win.

 

[Townie72]

Isn't a full back up the middle a mainstay of an option offense? We go up the middle already and no one finds that too interesting.

All teams run up the middle. Fans hate it ... unless it works. Coaches love it. It keeps the defense honest and sets up other plays.

Running plays to keep the fans interested seems like a recipe for disaster.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Running plays to keep the fans interested seems like a recipe for disaster.

You said it better than I could.

 

[Townie72]

I agree that Maloney got the short end of the stick in a difficult period but can you elaborate on what you are referring to with your "clowns that quit" statement?

Sure. In the early seventies, a group of players quit the SU football team claiming all sorts of injustices and accusing "Ole Ben" of being a racist. SU recruiting suffered from this and this helped put SU football in the crapper for a number of years.

 

[Bornorange]

Sure. In the early seventies, a group of players quit the SU football team claiming all sorts of injustices and accusing "Ole Ben" of being a racist. SU recruiting suffered from this and this helped put SU football in the crapper for a number of years.

.. And one of those guys named, Dwayne (as I recall) was my counselor in a teen program. He was a complete ass and totally conceited. Bad mouthed the program and Ben even though despite the scandal he invented, he still played for the Dolphins as a cornerback.

 

[Townie72]

.. And one of those guys named, Dwayne (as I recall) was my counselor in a teen program. He was a complete ass and totally conceited. Bad mouthed the program and Ben even though despite the scandal he invented, he still played for the Dolphins as a cornerback.

I was on campus at the time. It always seemed to me that most of the complaints of the group were part of the times. They wanted to be "fashionable". I'll be generous and say there were two sides to the controversy.

For Gross to take sides so publically on this old argument so has always seemd to me to be absolutely bone-headed stupid. Why dig up those old bones? Why pee on Ben's grave? Why play to "Liberal guilt" and put your finger in the eye of the other side of an ancient argument.

Since that time I have always considered Gross an "empty suit" albeit a very expensive "empty suit."

 

[TexanMark]

All but Hurley did. And the Independence bowl team was 7-5. They were a decent team with a few great players.

Ahh but they were much better than their record...all 11 games on the road. The real disappointing game was the finale vs BC at Cornell. The typical Cuse fans like lazy last minute lemmings tried to arrive 12 minutes before kickoff. I heard their was an epic traffic jam on RT 13 leading into Ithaca...many missed the entire first half. SU came out flat and lost to BC...good bye Tangerine Bowl--hello Independence Bowl in Shreveport.

The Bowl game (up to that year) was essentially a glorified smaller college bowl game. Syracuse was the first name team to play in it since the 1A vs 1AA split was forcing them to invite 6-5 Big Boy schools to upgrade the bowl. Syracuse was matched up versus 11-0 McNeese State out of Lake Charles, LA. This was the Super Bowl for McNeese St. Beat Syracuse and they probably get ranked in the Top 25. After a close first half Syracuse blew them out in the 2nd half.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Bowl

 

[xc84]

Ahh but they were much better than their record...all 11 games on the road. The real disappointing game was the finale vs BC at Cornell. The typical Cuse fans like lazy last minute lemmings tried to arrive 12 minutes before kickoff. I heard their was an epic traffic jam on RT 13 leading into Ithaca...many missed the entire first half. SU came out flat and lost to BC...good bye Tangerine Bowl--hello Independence Bowl in Shreveport.

The Bowl game (up to that year) was essentially a glorified smaller college bowl game. Syracuse was the first name team to play in it since the 1A vs 1AA split was forcing them to invite 6-5 Big Boy schools to upgrade the bowl. Syracuse was matched up versus 11-0 McNeese State out of Lake Charles, LA. This was the Super Bowl for McNeese St. Beat Syracuse and they probably get ranked in the Top 25. After a close first half Syracuse blew them out in the 2nd half.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Bowl

I recall it well. It was at the age when I was just getting interested in SU football...of course Hurley, Morris, Monk combination helped. Also, I used to get basketball and running shoes at Sporting Foot and Gary Bugenhagen had all those photos of himslef from SU and the NFL there... in addition, one of my doctors was the father of NFL player Doug Swift...so it all piqued my interest. I had been a big SU hoops fan since the days of Sweet D and Kid Kohls.

 

[Townie72]

Ahh but they were much better than their record...all 11 games on the road. The real disappointing game was the finale vs BC at Cornell. The typical Cuse fans like lazy last minute lemmings tried to arrive 12 minutes before kickoff. I heard their was an epic traffic jam on RT 13 leading into Ithaca...many missed the entire first half. SU came out flat and lost to BC...good bye Tangerine Bowl--hello Independence Bowl in Shreveport.

The Bowl game (up to that year) was essentially a glorified smaller college bowl game. Syracuse was the first name team to play in it since the 1A vs 1AA split was forcing them to invite 6-5 Big Boy schools to upgrade the bowl. Syracuse was matched up versus 11-0 McNeese State out of Lake Charles, LA. This was the Super Bowl for McNeese St. Beat Syracuse and they probably get ranked in the Top 25. After a close first half Syracuse blew them out in the 2nd half.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Bowl

I attended that ... driving over from Dallas. I still have an SU Independence Bowl pennant.

In the second half, SU ran the ball down their throats using that big offensive line to open holes for Joe Morris et al.

 

[OrangePA]

.. And one of those guys named, Dwayne (as I recall) was my counselor in a teen program. He was a complete ass and totally conceited. Bad mouthed the program and Ben even though despite the scandal he invented, he still played for the Dolphins as a cornerback.

I believe that you're talking about Duane Walker.

I was pretty sure that Duane eventually played for the Orange that year - 1970.

I had no idea he made it to the NFL - that's surprising.

 

[OrangePA]

Isn't a full back up the middle a mainstay of an option offense? We go up the middle already and no one finds that too interesting.

In 2010 Adam Harris had eight carries.

In 2011 he had two carries - he missed one game.

Though the FB along the center line is an important threat in an option offense, it has rarely been used at SU.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

In 2010 Adam Harris had eight carries.

In 2011 he had two carries - he missed one game.

Though the FB along the center line is an important threat in an option offense, it has rarely been used at SU.

I meant runs up the middle. Not FB specifically.

 

[OrangePA]

I meant runs up the middle. Not FB specifically.

So not up the middle, but off tackle?

It's more and more difficult to run wide these days - given the speed of outside LBs.

 

[OttoMets]

I was on campus at the time. It always seemed to me that most of the complaints of the group were part of the times. They wanted to be "fashionable". I'll be generous and say there were two sides to the controversy.

For Gross to take sides so publically on this old argument so has always seemd to me to be absolutely bone-headed stupid. Why dig up those old bones? Why pee on Ben's grave? Why play to "Liberal guilt" and put your finger in the eye of the other side of an ancient argument.

Since that time I have always considered Gross an "empty suit" albeit a very expensive "empty suit."

I was going to ask if you were on campus. I, of course, wasn't, but have heard from people who were neighbors, teammates, and classmates of the dissatisfied players (too diplomatic?) that their gripes were legitimate. At best, Ben was a creature of his era who was way too loose with his use of "n-----." At worst, a real bigot. Those guys enjoyed the privileges of being varsity athletes, sure, but they had a rough go of it with Ben and were treated differently than their white teammates.

As you said, there are two sides to these things.

 

[HtownOrange]

Thanks, Gents. The trip down Memory Lane was great. I was a kid in the 70's and my dad grew up an Orangemen fan, so I followed in his footsteps. None of my family can claim Syracuse as our alma mater, but, we're from the area and have always loved Syracuse. That trip down Memory Lane makes me glad my kids love Syracuse, too, even though we live in the Houston area.

Thanks again.

 

[Townie72]

I was going to ask if you were on campus. I, of course, wasn't, but have heard from people who were neighbors, teammates, and classmates of the dissatisfied players (too diplomatic?) that their gripes were legitimate. At best, Ben was a creature of his era who was way too loose with his use of "n-----." At worst, a real bigot. Those guys enjoyed the privileges of being varsity athletes, sure, but they had a rough go of it with Ben and were treated differently than their white teammates.

As you said, there are two sides to these things.

Almost complete nonsense.

Ask Floyd Little or Jim Nance or John Mackey or even Jim Brown if Ben was a racist. About all you might say is that Ben might not have been as sensitive to their newly heightened sensitivity as they might have liked. And that's what the whole thing was about. Ben was a tough old guy. Unyeilding. And a WWII paratrooper and disciplinarian.

In the players defense, they were caught up "in the times". This sort of thing was in all the papers on all the TV channels. They wanted to be part of a national movement.

The part about Ben using the "N" word is too ludicrous to comment on. At that time Ben had been at SU almost 20 years. Do you really think the guy had been getting away with that for 20 years? Ridiculous.

One of their top complaints was that no Blacks were considered for QB. At that time that complaint would have been true at all 119 Div I schools.

 

[OttoMets]

Almost complete nonsense.

Ask Floyd Little or Jim Nance or John Mackey or even Jim Brown if Ben was a racist. About all you might say is that Ben might not have been as sensitive to their newly heightened sensitivity as they might have liked. And that's what the whole thing was about. Ben was a tough old guy. Unyeilding. And a WWII paratrooper and disciplinarian.

In the players defense, they were caught up "in the times". This sort of thing was in all the papers on all the TV channels. They wanted to be part of a national movement.

The part about Ben using the "N" word is too ludicrous to comment on. At that time Ben had been at SU almost 20 years. Do you really think the guy had been getting away with that for 20 years? Ridiculous.

One of their top complaints was that no Blacks were considered for QB. At that time that complaint would have been true at all 119 Div I schools.

As helpful as it is for you to contradict the (factual) things I've said, I'll be exiting this thread now.

But that "newly heightened sensitivity" line is really a good one. Dang those "boys" discovering that they have the same rights as everyone else!

 

[xc84]

The part about Ben using the "N" word is too ludicrous to comment on. At that time Ben had been at SU almost 20 years. Do you really think the guy had been getting away with that for 20 years? Ridiculous.

I don't think it is that ridiculous. There are many, many people who used racial slurs back then and "got away with it." Sometimes it just depends on who you are talking to. I was a child in the 70s and heard those words used many times in my white neighborhood. I guess they all "got away with it." It was a sign of the times for sure which I think was mentioned as a "best case" by ottomets and worst case is, Ben was racist. Thinking that the scenario of Ole Ben ever using the "N" word is ludicrous ...well to me, that's really naive to think it could never have happened. ever.