Here is what I can PROMISE all the "fire Shafer" people

[GoSU96]

People keep saying two things re:Marrone vs Shafer

- Marrone had more marque wins and that's true (major check for Marrone)

- And that Shafer was hired to maintain Marrone's success

If you look at the stats, Shafer has maintained the offense at bad/mediocre and maintained the defense at decent (major check for Shafer as a defensive mind). In Marrone's two 8 win seasons we had the easiest two schedules in the last 8 years.

Marrone's offense in 2012 is the only year better than the 2008 Robinson team. Let that sink in. And Robinson did it against a much harder schedule.

Too much is being made of Marrone's successes (built largely on an improved defense). This years offense is smack in the middle of an average Marrone year, with a freshman QB. Our defense is letting us down for the first time since 2011. And we play a slightly higher SOS in the ACC.

What? Whole lot of craziness to unpack there.

Time for your meds.

 

[CuseCactus]

People keep saying two things re:Marrone vs Shafer

- Marrone had more marque wins and that's true (major check for Marrone)

- And that Shafer was hired to maintain Marrone's success

If you look at the stats, Shafer has maintained the offense at bad/mediocre and maintained the defense at decent (major check for Shafer as a defensive mind). In Marrone's two 8 win seasons we had the easiest two schedules in the last 8 years.

Marrone's offense in 2012 is the only year better than the 2008 Robinson team. Let that sink in. And Robinson did it against a much harder schedule.

Too much is being made of Marrone's successes (built largely on an improved defense). This years offense is smack in the middle of an average Marrone year, with a freshman QB. Our defense is letting us down for the first time since 2011. And we play a slightly higher SOS in the ACC.

Marrone never went 3-9. His worst year was his first at 4-8. His best year was his last at 8-5. And the offense was great his last year. Everything was trending the right way when he left. It's very hard to spin Shafer as successful (right now - hoping this changes). He has failed to improve on what he inherited. No way around it. He still has time - here's to a great win this weekend!

 

[KaiserUEO]

I don't even go into the chat room. I can't keep up with that and still watch the game.

i have a hard time with both.

as someone said, at least with chats...the insanity disapears.

with that thread we were able to establish that cusian likes to punt, down 3 scores, with the ball at midfield.

:crazy: :noidea:

the credibility he had been building...shot.

Oh Lord

 

[K Otto XLIV]

People keep saying two things re:Marrone vs Shafer

- Marrone had more marque wins and that's true (major check for Marrone)

- And that Shafer was hired to maintain Marrone's success

If you look at the stats, Shafer has maintained the offense at bad/mediocre and maintained the defense at decent (major check for Shafer as a defensive mind). In Marrone's two 8 win seasons we had the easiest two schedules in the last 8 years.

Marrone's offense in 2012 is the only year better than the 2008 Robinson team. Let that sink in. And Robinson did it against a much harder schedule.

Too much is being made of Marrone's successes (built largely on an improved defense). This years offense is smack in the middle of an average Marrone year, with a freshman QB. Our defense is letting us down for the first time since 2011. And we play a slightly higher SOS in the ACC.

2010 was an easy as pie schedule. 2012 was not easy by any means. It was harder than normal for us which says a lot. Our schedules since joining the ACC are very top heavy. We have played some really good teams. But they have been evened out by playing a bunch of bad teams.

 

[Crusty]

Marrone never went 3-9. His worst year was his first at 4-8. His best year was his last at 8-5. And the offense was great his last year. Everything was trending the right way when he left. It's very hard to spin Shafer as successful (right now - hoping this changes). He has failed to improve on what he inherited. No way around it. He still has time - here's to a great win this weekend!

In fairness, that team lost first and fourth round NFL draft choices. Shafer went 7-6 with a nice bowl victory over Minnesota in the Texas Bowl. After that, the cupboard was truly bare as evidenced by the large number of freshmen playing this year.

IMO the simple fact is that we have a major rebuild in progress. This isn't Shafer coaching great players left behind by Marrone. He is coaching freshmen that he recruited.

 

[NineOneSeven]

My favorite thing- Leave it to thecusian in last year's game thread to actually not question the decision to punt down 23, stating the decision was "irrelevant because we were down 3 scores".

 

[NineOneSeven]

In fairness, that team lost first and fourth round NFL draft choices. Shafer went 7-6 with a nice bowl victory over Minnesota in the Texas Bowl. After that, the cupboard was truly bare as evidence by the large number of freshmen playing this year.

IMO the simple fact is that we have a major rebuild in progress. This isn't Shafer coaching great players left behind by Marrone. He is coaching freshmen that he recruited.

Agreed. But, some of the decisions made have nothing to do with the age of the players. Bad coaching and young players can have overlap.

 

[Crusty]

Agreed. But, some of the decisions made have nothing to do with the age of the players. Bad coaching and young players can have overlap.

Of course, but what would you rather coach - 3 star freshmen or 3 star juniors?

 

[phil77]

Of course, but what would you rather coach - 3 star freshmen or 3 star juniors?

Does it matter the stars if you can't coach?

Let me edit this...Because Shafer can clearly coach when he was a defensive coordinator he was a great coach when that was is only focus.

My worry with Shafer being a head coach is that he struggles with game planning and in game adjustments and decisions and IMO he has not improved in those areas in three years.

 

[Crusty]

Does it matter the stars if you can't coach?

I guess I know your answer. You can't coach.

 

[phil77]

I guess I know your answer. You can't coach.

I edited my response as I didn't like it. LOL

 

[TheCusian]

Marrone never went 3-9. His worst year was his first at 4-8. His best year was his last at 8-5. And the offense was great his last year. Everything was trending the right way when he left. It's very hard to spin Shafer as successful (right now - hoping this changes). He has failed to improve on what he inherited. No way around it. He still has time - here's to a great win this weekend!

I'm not spinning that he's more successful. Shafer hasn't had a year like 2012 as a coach. What hurts is that Marrone left before any kind of foundation could be established offensively and then he took the OC.

But in a lot of ways 2012 was more anomaly than stepping stone.

 

[TheCusian]

What? Whole lot of craziness to unpack there. Time for your meds.

Go ahead and unpack.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

In fairness, that team lost first and fourth round NFL draft choices. Shafer went 7-6 with a nice bowl victory over Minnesota in the Texas Bowl. After that, the cupboard was truly bare as evidenced by the large number of freshmen playing this year.

IMO the simple fact is that we have a major rebuild in progress. This isn't Shafer coaching great players left behind by Marrone. He is coaching freshmen that he recruited.

In fairness we underachieved record wise in 2012. Also we played six teams that finished in the Sagarin Top 50 in 2012. In 2013 we played only three. It was a lot easier schedule. So going from 8-5 to 7-6 makes sense despite the personnel losses.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

That Pitt game thread is gold. A lot of posters brought their A game.

Crazy stupid game. Sugar Bear running the ball in for a TD. The punt for no reason. Incredible stuff.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

That Pitt game thread is gold. A lot of posters brought their A game.

Crazy stupid game. Sugar Bear running the ball in for a TD. The punt for no reason. Incredible stuff.

The Pitt game was so frustrating. We had 2 weeks to prep for an awful run D and were not able to run the ball. Our OL was relatively healthy too.

 

[TheCusian]

The Pitt game was so frustrating. We had 2 weeks to prep for an awful run D and were not able to run the ball. Our OL was relatively healthy too.

Sometimes an offense can be so bad it just doesn't matter.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Of course, but what would you rather coach - 3 star freshmen or 3 star juniors?

I'm with you. And what I'll say is- we need to determine whether we are winning by just having better players than years past, vs better game plan

 

[qdawgg]

I couldn't understand why I didn't comment on the game thread, then I remembered, my counselor has been trying to help me forget that I was at the game and had stayed to the end.

 

[Crusty]

I'm with you. And what I'll say is- we need to determine whether we are winning by just having better players than years past, vs better game plan

Most coaches agree that game plans are overrated. (The old Mike Tyson quote that everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face!) More games are won during the week than on Saturdays. Preparing players with constant stress on fundamentals- timing, technique and recognition and teaching each one how to get a bit better each week seems to be the key to coaching success.

It is also true that match-ups really count and how coaches deal with those is important and sometimes determinative.

Shafer has a long history of being a very good defensive coach and he didn't get stupid overnight. He has much to learn about game management, but he does know how to get his players to play hard and to grow.

It seems to me to be a prima facie case that if we had good players, all these freshmen would not be starting.

One can reasonably argue if our talent has gotten enough better to compete in the ACC or not, but that's it. The talent is clearly better, but young. We are playing 22 and 23-year-olds with our 18 and 19-year-olds.

Can the fan base sit still for another 3-9 season? Will Coyle want his own guy? Who knows? For me, I want to see another season, after that come talk to me.

 

[Chip]

The Pitt game was so frustrating. We had 2 weeks to prep for an awful run D and were not able to run the ball. Our OL was relatively healthy too.

Not to mention that Pitt was coming into that game as a hot mess, losing 3 straight, and giving up points and yards to anyone who wanted them.

We saved their season.

 

[Crusty]

Didn't you also believe Austin wilson was the QB of the future here?

Austin Wilson is a pro style QB recruited for Marrone's offense. He is strong armed, no run like Ryan. He does not fit Lester's system.

 

[007]

Not to mention that Pitt was coming into that game as a hot mess, losing 3 straight, and giving up points and yards to anyone who wanted them.

We saved their season.

Kinda like us coming into this game. Maybe you are on the something...

 

[KellySyracuse]

wow, so many geniuses in this thread with all the answers. Shirley some of you must be coaching football in the big leagues now with your vast knowledge of all the exes and ohs. Somebody call Coyle and get y'all signed up.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Austin Wilson is a pro style QB recruited for Marrone's offense. He is strong armed, no run like Ryan. He does not fit Lester's system.

He doesn't fit any system at this level with what he has shown. He's an Ivy League type talent.