Here is what I can PROMISE all the "fire Shafer" people

[SU94]

Millhouse, I don't know you at all, but I believe I remember reading you are a Rochester guy, so you cannot be all bad. I will say this ... for a guy who dabbles quite a bit in statistics and math on this site, you don't show any proper judgement or context when it comes to sample sizes. You've made dozens of posts about the folly that is Lester's offense. I mean, honestly, how "dumb" is that (to use one of your words)? How stupid is it to say that since we are 0-2 on the road when our QB has a rating of 132+ this year, and but had a 80% winning percentage since in that instance since 2000, we should scrap the offense and get a new scheme.

I mean, the grand declarations you make based on FIVE P5 games is ridiculous, especially as someone so eloquently stated, Lester has had Dungey taking primary reps in his offense now for, what(?) 4-5 weeks? Maybe a bit more? Okay, 5-6 weeks.

Hey, I like analytics. A lot. So, I am not the 80-years-old guy screaming that stats are for losers. I just think that, to put it in baseball terms ... Willie Mays went 0-for-23 to start his career. There is no doubt in my mind, if you were a power broker with the New York Giants back then, you would have sent him down to redo or retool his swing. And that would have been a real shame, right? (and no, I never saw Willie play, I swear).

Speaking for myself, I like what I've seen out of Lester's offense so far. As I said in a post the other day, it is not perfect, but we are playing well within it right now. Most of the time, math and analysis will tell you, that young players will get better as they learn a system and begin to "prefect" it (obviously too strong a term) over time. I suggest you "x" out of Excel and just sit back and watch.

Let's develop some players and hope for improved play out of our offensive line. Especially for next year and beyond. And let's let Lester grow into being a coordinator. To me, he's doing nice job of putting his vision into place so far, in what is only his first half season as a coordinator at this level.

You understand math. I mean, if we chuck Shafer and Lester out the window, start over, isn't there a chance that the new coach brings in a OC that wants to run the West Coast Offense. Or pro style. So, why risk it? Let's let this smart guy (Lester) , with a fresh mind, with new ideas, most of which seem to be well thought out, have a real go at it. Let's let Dungey and Lester develop together. It's our best play right now.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I wanted the coaching staff gone last year. I haven't exactly been fans. I am willingly to concede this offense has exceeded my expectations and your right that the 2nd half of last year factors into that. However we have scored 24 points every game and that is why I give credit.
We didn't average 24 ppg under McDonald. You may be right it may be the QB but I gotta give the coaches credit for getting the kid. I would make the move to a new staff I thought when we hired SS it was the wrong decision.

Shafer and Lester hand picked Dungey because they knew he was a perfect fit for their system.

And remember this ... Dungey just got off the bus in July, and he was only getting 2nd team reps through Training Camp.

Just imagine what we can accomplish when he gets a full year of S&C under his belt, and he gets in a full Spring Practice with Ish, Bris and Erv. And that Clark kid.

 

[Chip]

Millhouse, I don't know you at all, but I believe I remember reading you are a Rochester guy, so you cannot be all bad.

Trust me, he's all bad.

 

[Millhouse]

Millhouse, I don't know you at all, but I believe I remember reading you are a Rochester guy, so you cannot be all bad. I will say this ... for a guy who dabbles quite a bit in statistics and math on this site, you don't show any proper judgement or context when it comes to sample sizes. You've made dozens of posts about the folly that is Lester's offense. I mean, honestly, how "dumb" is that (to use one of your words)? How stupid is it to say that since we are 0-2 on the road when our QB has a rating of 132+ this year, and but had a 80% winning percentage since in that instance since 2000, we should scrap the offense and get a new scheme.

I mean, the grand declarations you make based on FIVE P5 games is ridiculous, especially as someone so eloquently stated, Lester has had Dungey taking primary reps in his offense now for, what(?) 4-5 weeks? Maybe a bit more? Okay, 5-6 weeks.

Hey, I like analytics. A lot. So, I am not the 80-years-old guy screaming that stats are for losers. I just think that, to put it in baseball terms ... Willie Mays went 0-for-23 to start his career. There is no doubt in my mind, if you were a power broker with the New York Giants back then, you would have sent him down to redo or retool his swing. And that would have been a real shame, right? (and no, I never saw Willie play, I swear).

Speaking for myself, I like what I've seen out of Lester's offense so far. As I said in a post the other day, it is not perfect, but we are playing well within it right now. Most of the time, math and analysis will tell you, that young players will get better as they learn a system and begin to "prefect" it (obviously too strong a term) over time. I suggest you "x" out of Excel and just sit back and watch.

Let's develop some players and hope for improved play out of our offensive line. Especially for next year and beyond. And let's let Lester grow into being a coordinator. To me, he's doing nice job of putting his vision into place so far, in what is only his first half season as a coordinator at this level.

You understand math. I mean, if we chuck Shafer and Lester out the window, start over, isn't there a chance that the new coach brings in a OC that wants to run the West Coast Offense. Or pro style. So, why risk it? Let's let this smart guy (Lester) , with a fresh mind, with new ideas, most of which seem to be well thought out, have a real go at it. Let's let Dungey and Lester develop together. It's our best play right now.

I love that you brought up the west coast offense

there less of a chance of the head coach bringing in an OC that wants to run a lousy offense if we hired an offensive guy with a proven system

i don't think this offense is well thought out. good teams throw to their WR. we run with them.

 

[Alsacs]

Shafer and Lester hand picked Dungey because they knew he was a perfect fit for their system.

And remember this ... Dungey just got off the bus in July, and he was only getting 2nd team reps through Training Camp.

Just imagine what we can accomplish when he gets a full year of S&C under his belt, and he gets in a full Spring Practice with Ish, Bris and Erv. And that Clark kid.

Next year is year 4. If we aren't competing for 8-9 wins next year this staff has failed. Another year better mean we don't expect 6-7 wins as good enough.
I am sick of excuses. SS took over a program that was okay. If we don't win another game good bye. If the offense continues to do well and we win a game okay but I still think this staff is never going to be anything better than praying for 6 wins.

SS is a good man but IMO is in over his head in a position he should have never been given.

 

[Chip]

http://syracusefan.com/threads/su-vs-pitt-gameday-thread.83269/

I went back and looked at last year's Pitt game thread. I really wish Chip got more credit for his alltime classic line that got buried in a terrible game thread from last year.

Ooof, I just read through some of that. Looking at game threads is bad one day later. But one year?

In fairness, that was easily our worst game of the year. If we lose to Pitt that badly again I'll be so upset.

Actually, I probably won't care. It's Pitt. They make me sleepy.

 

[bcubs9497]

Football != Big Mac, no matter how much people stomp their feet. Guarantee that if Shafer goes, everything pretty much resets to zero.

 

[Millhouse]

Ooof, I just read through some of that. Looking at game threads is bad one day later. But one year?

In fairness, that was easily our worst game of the year. If we lose to Pitt that badly again I'll be so upset.

Actually, I probably won't care. It's Pitt. They make me sleepy.

game threads are great but chats are even better. they become beautifully unhinged

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Football != Big Mac, no matter how much people stomp their feet. Guarantee that if Shafer goes, everything pretty much resets to zero.

If Shafer is fired it will be because we are at zero. So who would be better to take us from zero? A new HC or the guy who brought us back down there?

 

[GoSU96]

I love that you brought up the west coast offense

there less of a chance of the head coach bringing in an OC that wants to run a lousy offense if we hired an offensive guy with a proven system

i don't think this offense is well thought out. good teams throw to their WR. we run with them.

You're making too big a deal out this. What position did Tavon Austin play? It's a wrinkle.

Against UVA Lewis was playing more like a TE, I think his days of taking hand offs are over.

They use Phillips and Strickland as hybrids and Estime, who is a similar type of player, occasionally. He's still finding what works and what doesn't. I suspect some more of the pop-warner stuff is going to disappear, the inside give to the Wingback didn't work so great last week, but I like the versatility the personnel can give you to run very different formations without changing the guys on the field and the packaged plays you can come up with out of the same sets.

 

[Millhouse]

You're making to big a deal out this. What position did Tavon Austin play? It's a wrinkle.

Against UVA Lewis was playing more like a TE, I think his days of taking hand offs are over.

They use Phillips and Strickland as hybrids and Estime, who is a similar type of player, occasionally. He's still finding what works and what doesn't. I suspect some more of the pop-warner stuff is going to disappear, the inside give to the Wingback didn't work so great last week, but I like the versatility the personnel can give you to run very different formations without changing the guys on the field and the packaged plays you can come up with out of the same sets.

tavon austin and percy harvin are unicorns. they're putting the cart before the horse. if WVU doesn't have a tavon austin, they just put another WR scrub out wide that you have to cover

lewis's days of trying to block like a TE should be over.

i want to hire someone who has figured this shhtuff out already

you need versatile personnel to run very different formations effectively. we're going to keep him around for 5 years and we're going to put it together for one glorious game and everyone will say AHA ignoring that we could've spent 5 years doing something easier. i'm really tired of doing everything the hard way

 

[Chip]

game threads are great but chats are even better. they become beautifully unhinged

I don't even go into the chat room. I can't keep up with that and still watch the game.

 

[GoSU96]

tavon austin and percy harvin are unicorns. they're putting the cart before the horse. if WVU doesn't have a tavon austin, they just put another WR scrub out wide that you have to cover

lewis's days of trying to block like a TE should be over.

i want to hire someone who has figured this shhtuff out already

you need versatile personnel to run very different formations effectively. we're going to keep him around for 5 years and we're going to put it together for one glorious game and everyone will say AHA ignoring that we could've spent 5 years doing something easier. i'm really tired of doing everything the hard way

Rome wasn't built in a day. I'm going to throw this out here again.

Digging out takes time, and McF'it drove this thing off a cliff again. You know where my head is at on where I think the offense should go, but given how the defense generally plays (this year not withstanding) this thing could work. I think Dungey is going to force him to stop PTR'ing as much because there is so much upside, but the idea of what he is trying to do isn't absurd.

 

[CuseCactus]

I love the chatroom. because I can become beautifully unhinged - without leaving an embarrassing record behind.

 

[TheCusian]

I think you are giving too much credit to the O. We really aren't that different on O vs the 18 McDonald games. The vast improvement is because the last 6 games of 2014 were arguably the worst O in the history of Cuse football. Lester shouldn't get credit for turning the O around when he played a part in creating a stretch of O worse than Pariani. Also how much of this year's O "improvement" is Dungey being Dungey vs the actual system? If he creates something from nothing does the scheme get credit?

We are not all that different from any year that's not 2012, honestly.

 

[TheCusian]

Not to be a wet blanket, but their best defensive player (Michael Sam) was injured and did not play.

Even without him they had superior talent in a lot of positions.

 

[CuseCactus]

We are not all that different from any year that's not 2012, honestly.

But therein lies the problem. Many of us (myself included) looked at 2012 as a foundation setting year. Hence my frustration with a limping 7-6 then 3-9, and in 2015? Not looking promising right now.

Beating Pitt this weekend is incredibly important.

 

[MSOrange]

Not to be a wet blanket, but their best defensive player (Michael Sam) was injured and did not play.

Not that it's a huge deal, but Sam played in that game. Sheldon Richardson was suspended - a foreshadowing of things to come for Mr Richardson apparently. That's the only Syracuse football game I've ever been to live and I sure picked a good one!

 

[Millhouse]

Rome wasn't built in a day. I'm going to throw this out here again.

Digging out takes time, and McF'it drove this thing off a cliff again. You know where my head is at one where I think the offense should go, but given how the defense generally plays (this year not withstanding) this thing could work. I think Dungey is going to force him to stop PTR'ing as much because there is so much upside, but the idea of what he is trying to do isn't absurd.

i just disagree. this shtuff works fine at elmworst where no one is good at anything so why not hybrid like mad, what do you have to lose

i don't think how the defense plays should factor in much to evaluating whether this thing could work

i think this offense is absurd because it goes away from giving guys a few things to master in their limited practice time. we can't play wake every week

 

[Crusty]

Not that it's a huge deal, but Sam played in that game. Sheldon Richardson was suspended - a foreshadowing of things to come for Mr Richardson apparently. That's the only Syracuse football game I've ever been to live and I sure picked a good one!

Ah, my bad. It had been billed as their best defensive player was out.

 

[GoSU96]

i just disagree. this shtuff works fine at elmworst where no one is good at anything so why not hybrid like mad, what do you have to lose

i don't think how the defense plays should factor in much to evaluating whether this thing could work

i think this offense is absurd because it goes away from giving guys a few things to master in their limited practice time. we can't play wake every week

I think evolves to where you have a couple of flex players that allow you to change your look and the occasional jet sweep out the WR or Slot. It's not going to be everybody doing everything.

 

[GoSU96]

Ah, my bad. It had been billed as their best defensive player was out.

Yeah, that would be Sheldon Richardson.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

game threads are great but chats are even better. they become beautifully unhinged

Agreed, nobody should ever feel bad about what they post during a game ( within reason), the range of emotion is insane. It's hilarious. so many classics.

Like I said and have told a ton of people, I silenced an entire bar in Eugene, Or when Nunes threw that ridiculous circus INT versus VT in the dome with a expletive laced rant that was absolutely one for the ages. Once DUCK fans watched it they realized it was well deserved. Never apologize for being a fan

 

[Crusty]

Lester's offense relies heavily on misdirection. Anyone in there at H-back has to run the sweep occasionally for the deception to work. No way around that.

 

[TheCusian]

People keep saying two things re:Marrone vs Shafer

- Marrone had more marque wins and that's true (major check for Marrone)

- And that Shafer was hired to maintain Marrone's success

If you look at the stats, Shafer has maintained the offense at bad/mediocre and maintained the defense at decent (major check for Shafer as a defensive mind). In Marrone's two 8 win seasons we had the easiest two schedules in the last 8 years.

Marrone's offense in 2012 is the only year better than the 2008 Robinson team. Let that sink in. And Robinson did it against a much harder schedule.

Too much is being made of Marrone's successes (built largely on an improved defense). This years offense is smack in the middle of an average Marrone year, with a freshman QB. Our defense is letting us down for the first time since 2011. And we play a slightly higher SOS in the ACC.