Hey I have a question | Syracusefan.com

Hey I have a question

Status
Not open for further replies.

OttoinGrotto

2023-24 Iggy Award Most 3 Pointers Made
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
59,970
Like
172,332
How come when some guys get criticism for their game it includes a character or personality flaw, and some guys don't have their character or personalities called in to question?

I mean people say Judah doesn't care about the team and winning and is only out for himself and his own numbers (selfish).

And we've read that Quadir cares more about style and how he looks than winning (vanity).

And recently seems like there's a lot of momentum to the idea that Bell is a problem in the locker room (bad apple).

And we all acknowledge that Taylor is having an absolutely abysmal year shooting, but the talk track is that he's a hard worker and good team guy.

Hmm.

Hmm.

What's up with this assumption that some players when they don't play well have character flaws, but it's not due to character flaws when some other players don't play well?
 
Judah is not a ‘distributor.’ He’s a “PG” that dribbles around a lot, probing, trying to find or create his own shot first.

Q’s style does have a lot of flash. I don’t recall anyone saying ‘that’s all he cares about.’ It’s just his nature. He has fun on the court and his flourishes are part of that. A lot of us wish he would sacrifice some of that toward just being a bit more fundamental in the circumstances where the simpler thing is called for. That’s not a “character issue” per se. And certainly not on the level you seem to be suggesting.

Bell just got into a thing with Q on the sideline. That happened. I haven’t read anything about locker room issues. Bell’s demeanor just may not be one that a lot of fans appreciate. There’s a scowl, an oddly-timed celebratory act, and a lack of commitment to the physical aspects of the game. Couple that with the influence his father is suggested to have, and you get… inferences and implications.

Taylor? What do YOU see? Wht have you heard? He goes out, tries hard, doesn’t do immature stuff, and isn’t a Me First player.

So, what’s your inference? That there’s a racial bias to fans’ characterizations? It’s all there on the floor. There’s no need to make anything up. It is what it is. Note, also, that you omitted other players in order to arrive at your suggestion. Any negatives applied to Cuffe’s personality, for instance? JJ’s?

Hmm….
 
We’ve got several players that are very demonstrative on the court (Judah, Bell, Copeland, even JJ) and a couple that very rarely show that emotion (Taylor, Brown, Tyler Roberson… sorry wrong year).

That didn’t answer your question.
 
How come when some guys get criticism for their game it includes a character or personality flaw, and some guys don't have their character or personalities called in to question?

I mean people say Judah doesn't care about the team and winning and is only out for himself and his own numbers (selfish).

And we've read that Quadir cares more about style and how he looks than winning (vanity).

And recently seems like there's a lot of momentum to the idea that Bell is a problem in the locker room (bad apple).

And we all acknowledge that Taylor is having an absolutely abysmal year shooting, but the talk track is that he's a hard worker and good team guy.

Hmm.

Hmm.

What's up with this assumption that some players when they don't play well have character flaws, but it's not due to character flaws when some other players don't play well?
I think i can tell where you are going with this and it would work if the board didnt also crap on JG3 and Buddy for 4 years. The difference is that you don't see JT complaining to the refs, quitting on defense, and arguing with teammates on the sidelines, so he doesn't appear to ever be putting himself above the team.
 
How come when some guys get criticism for their game it includes a character or personality flaw, and some guys don't have their character or personalities called in to question?

I mean people say Judah doesn't care about the team and winning and is only out for himself and his own numbers (selfish).

And we've read that Quadir cares more about style and how he looks than winning (vanity).

And recently seems like there's a lot of momentum to the idea that Bell is a problem in the locker room (bad apple).

And we all acknowledge that Taylor is having an absolutely abysmal year shooting, but the talk track is that he's a hard worker and good team guy.

Hmm.

Hmm.

What's up with this assumption that some players when they don't play well have character flaws, but it's not due to character flaws when some other players don't play well?

Judah is trying to make the NBA and isn’t doing his job. He’s hurt this team at times and has slid off of draft boards. But at least his PER is above 20.

Q isn’t starting. How mad are you going to get at a bench guy when we basically go 6.5 guys. He also passes to open guys when he’s lead guard.

Bell has always started for some insane reason. His PER is below 15. It was abysmal last year and is below average this year. He’s griping on social media posts. He’s in arguments on camera. He’s one dimensional. He has to be coaxed to try to *rebound* as a starting forward.

JT isn’t good and shouldn’t be playing at this level. He looks scared and broken. What else is there to say?
 
How come when some guys get criticism for their game it includes a character or personality flaw, and some guys don't have their character or personalities called in to question?

I mean people say Judah doesn't care about the team and winning and is only out for himself and his own numbers (selfish).

And we've read that Quadir cares more about style and how he looks than winning (vanity).

And recently seems like there's a lot of momentum to the idea that Bell is a problem in the locker room (bad apple).

And we all acknowledge that Taylor is having an absolutely abysmal year shooting, but the talk track is that he's a hard worker and good team guy.

Hmm.

Hmm.

What's up with this assumption that some players when they don't play well have character flaws, but it's not due to character flaws when some other players don't play well?
I guess because sometimes it is and sometimes it isn’t
 
How come when some guys get criticism for their game it includes a character or personality flaw, and some guys don't have their character or personalities called in to question?

I mean people say Judah doesn't care about the team and winning and is only out for himself and his own numbers (selfish).

And we've read that Quadir cares more about style and how he looks than winning (vanity).

And recently seems like there's a lot of momentum to the idea that Bell is a problem in the locker room (bad apple).

And we all acknowledge that Taylor is having an absolutely abysmal year shooting, but the talk track is that he's a hard worker and good team guy.

Hmm.

Hmm.

What's up with this assumption that some players when they don't play well have character flaws, but it's not due to character flaws when some other players don't play well?

This take plays with last year's team better. JT doesn't really mope or not hustle on the court like...ummm...others did.

The Judah and Bell comments are kind of hard to disagree to me. There's at least a speck of truth to them. MAYBE you can say Judah just doesn't have the game to be a PG and it's not selfish, per se. He just doesnt know any other way.

The Q stuff. I don't think he's trying to be flashy. I think that's how he plays and it needs to be coached out of him.
 
How come when some guys get criticism for their game it includes a character or personality flaw, and some guys don't have their character or personalities called in to question?

I mean people say Judah doesn't care about the team and winning and is only out for himself and his own numbers (selfish).

And we've read that Quadir cares more about style and how he looks than winning (vanity).

And recently seems like there's a lot of momentum to the idea that Bell is a problem in the locker room (bad apple).

And we all acknowledge that Taylor is having an absolutely abysmal year shooting, but the talk track is that he's a hard worker and good team guy.

Hmm.

Hmm.

What's up with this assumption that some players when they don't play well have character flaws, but it's not due to character flaws when some other players don't play well?

Some players show it on the court, some don’t.

I think your thinly veiled implication is that skin color is a factor here, but I don’t think that’s the case.
 
This take plays with last year's team better. JT doesn't really mope or not hustle on the court like...ummm...others did.

The Judah and Bell comments are kind of hard to disagree to me. There's at least a speck of truth to them. MAYBE you can say Judah just doesn't have the game to be a PG and it's not selfish, per se. He just doesnt know any other way.

The Q stuff. I don't think he's trying to be flashy. I think that's how he plays and it needs to be coached out of him.
Here’s my take on Judah/Bell/Q. I’m basing this off MY observations and what people have said about their games in high school.

Judah:
My eyes- not the greatest in terms of setting up teammates or running breaks.
What others have said- he often played the 3(!) in high school and didn’t frequently run breaks. That aligns.

Bell:
My eyes- very one dimensional. Can get hot from deep. Has seemingly gotten better fighting for boards but historically bad for a starting forward.
What others have said- in high school he didn’t mix it up a lot on the glass or defensive end. Not to mention the diet change last year, which shows to me the scoring in HS always came pretty easy and didn’t need to focus on those other areas. That aligns.

Q:
My eyes- going back to last year in limited time, very much risk/reward. Good playmaker but tends to force things a bit much. Sort of have to live with it, because he’s the best at getting looks for our best player on the pick and roll. This year in more minutes we are seeing those same tendencies for bad turnovers/forces followed up with a very nice pass.
What others have said- this style of play is similar to his game in HS, where you can get away with it more often. That aligns.

Again I don’t think that answered the original question but I typed it anyway.
 
How come when some guys get criticism for their game it includes a character or personality flaw, and some guys don't have their character or personalities called in to question?

I mean people say Judah doesn't care about the team and winning and is only out for himself and his own numbers (selfish).

And we've read that Quadir cares more about style and how he looks than winning (vanity).

And recently seems like there's a lot of momentum to the idea that Bell is a problem in the locker room (bad apple).

And we all acknowledge that Taylor is having an absolutely abysmal year shooting, but the talk track is that he's a hard worker and good team guy.

Hmm.

Hmm.

What's up with this assumption that some players when they don't play well have character flaws, but it's not due to character flaws when some other players don't play well?
Some of them appear to lack discipline, which is controllable, far more than a flawed shooting form, injuries, or complete lack of confidence.
 
Q:
My eyes- going back to last year in limited time, very much risk/reward. Good playmaker but tends to force things a bit much. Sort of have to live with it, because he’s the best at getting looks for our best player on the pick and roll. This year in more minutes we are seeing those same tendencies for bad turnovers/forces followed up with a very nice pass.
What others have said- this style of play is similar to his game in HS, where you can get away with it more often. That aligns.
That makes a lot of sense. You would hope that goes away next year with more experience. Thinking of a guy like Damone Brown who tried to to dunk everything or do something fancy the first couple years then settled down (somewhat)
 
How come when some guys get criticism for their game it includes a character or personality flaw, and some guys don't have their character or personalities called in to question?

I mean people say Judah doesn't care about the team and winning and is only out for himself and his own numbers (selfish).

And we've read that Quadir cares more about style and how he looks than winning (vanity).

And recently seems like there's a lot of momentum to the idea that Bell is a problem in the locker room (bad apple).

And we all acknowledge that Taylor is having an absolutely abysmal year shooting, but the talk track is that he's a hard worker and good team guy.

Hmm.

Hmm.

What's up with this assumption that some players when they don't play well have character flaws, but it's not due to character flaws when some other players don't play well?
It's a case by case basis. Personally I think Q cares a lot about winning and is a good team player overall, at least in terms of intent and desire. My criticism in that regard has been mostly limited to Judah and Bell, and previously Benny.

But the reason Taylor is getting credit for being a hard worker and good team guy is that he plays hard defensively, battles for rebounds, and the proof that he worked hard in the offseason is in his added muscle - which maybe didn't work out for him.
 
How come when some guys get criticism for their game it includes a character or personality flaw, and some guys don't have their character or personalities called in to question?

I mean people say Judah doesn't care about the team and winning and is only out for himself and his own numbers (selfish).

And we've read that Quadir cares more about style and how he looks than winning (vanity).

And recently seems like there's a lot of momentum to the idea that Bell is a problem in the locker room (bad apple).

And we all acknowledge that Taylor is having an absolutely abysmal year shooting, but the talk track is that he's a hard worker and good team guy.

Hmm.

Hmm.

What's up with this assumption that some players when they don't play well have character flaws, but it's not due to character flaws when some other players don't play well?
Your statement is quite a reach. You don’t think that Joe Girard, Trevor Cooney, Craig Forth etc didn’t get criticized about a perceived character or personality flaw on this board? Girard was fat and selfish, Cooney wasn’t that bright and Forth didn’t love the game. I can still remember all the crap that Marty Headd took when he was here from the so called local fans and that was forty years ago! Stop trying to start a narrative when there is no need to do so.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cto
I sit behind the bench and see how the players interact during timeouts and deadballs. Judah and Bell seem to give red more sht than any other player. It’s been that way all season. From a basketball perspective I like watching Maliq, Q, and JJ now that he’s coming into his own.

I thought Bell had turned a corner until the last game. He’s a very emotional player and for whatever reason his worst moments are on the road.
 
But the reason Taylor is getting credit for being a hard worker and good team guy is that he plays hard defensively, battles for rebounds, and the proof that he worked hard in the offseason is in his added muscle - which maybe didn't work out for him.
I know you're not saying this, but this is essentially an argument that Taylor's poor shooting is due not to a character flaw, but a character asset (he works hard).

And maybe I'm being unfair here, because it seems like we're forgetting the article on Bell this off-season that talks about the sacrifices and changes to his diet he made to muscle up for the season.


Oh, wait.
 
How come when some guys get criticism for their game it includes a character or personality flaw, and some guys don't have their character or personalities called in to question?

I mean people say Judah doesn't care about the team and winning and is only out for himself and his own numbers (selfish).

And we've read that Quadir cares more about style and how he looks than winning (vanity).

And recently seems like there's a lot of momentum to the idea that Bell is a problem in the locker room (bad apple).

And we all acknowledge that Taylor is having an absolutely abysmal year shooting, but the talk track is that he's a hard worker and good team guy.

Hmm.

Hmm.

What's up with this assumption that some players when they don't play well have character flaws, but it's not due to character flaws when some other players don't play well?
I'll play your dumb game.

Is there anything about Taylor that suggests he's "only out for himself" or that he "cares more about style than winning" or that he is "a problem in the locker room"? If not... then why would you expect such criticisms to be leveled against him?

Whether those critiques of the other players are accurate is debatable. But at least they're based on something that's reflected in their actions. Should we not make judgments based on their actions?

Trying to lump Judah, Quadir and Bell together is weird. But apparently you only see one thing when you look at them.

Hmm.

Hmm.
 
Whether those critiques of the other players are accurate is debatable. But at least they're based on something that's reflected in their actions. Should we not make judgments based on their actions?
Yes, let's play my game.

Debatable accuracy and reflections of action is interesting.

Justin Taylor is shooting 19% from 3 in ACC play.

Suppose I said that the reason why is because Justin Taylor is lazy and didn't work at all on his game in the off-season because he didn't care about the team. Once he started, he got his and that's all he cares about and that's why we're not seeing him play any better.

That sounds ridiculous, right? More than a bit unfair, right?

Why are the statements on character deficiency for Mintz, Copeland, and Bell acceptable?
 
I know you're not saying this, but this is essentially an argument that Taylor's poor shooting is due not to a character flaw, but a character asset (he works hard).
I'm not saying what his poor shooting is due to. What I am doing is saying he plays hard when he's on the floor. The results are not what we want them to be, but he's giving effort. So a guy who's obviously giving effort is more likely to be working hard behind the scenes than a guy who's obviously not giving as much effort during games.

And maybe I'm being unfair here, because it seems like we're forgetting the article on Bell this off-season that talks about the sacrifices and changes to his diet he made to muscle up for the season.

They say he came in heavier, but does he look it to you? Does he look like he's giving full effort on the floor? Do you see him battling for rebounds or working hard defensively?
 
I'm not saying what his poor shooting is due to.
YES!!! That's exactly what I'm saying!

So why are people comfortable saying that holes in Mintz's, Copeland's, and Bell's games are due to character defects?
 
I'll play your dumb game.

Is there anything about Taylor that suggests he's "only out for himself" or that he "cares more about style than winning" or that he is "a problem in the locker room"? If not... then why would you expect such criticisms to be leveled against him?

Whether those critiques of the other players are accurate is debatable. But at least they're based on something that's reflected in their actions. Should we not make judgments based on their actions?

Trying to lump Judah, Quadir and Bell together is weird. But apparently you only see one thing when you look at them.

Hmm.

Hmm.
Some people see everything in color, which is ironic, because they assume everyone else does.

Apparently, Joe Girard was black and Kadary Richmond was white because everyone liked Kadary much better and criticized Girard a ton.
 
Yes, let's play my game.

Debatable accuracy and reflections of action is interesting.

Justin Taylor is shooting 19% from 3 in ACC play.

Suppose I said that the reason why is because Justin Taylor is lazy and didn't work at all on his game in the off-season because he didn't care about the team. Once he started, he got his and that's all he cares about and that's why we're not seeing him play any better.

That sounds ridiculous, right? More than a bit unfair, right?

Why are the statements on character deficiency for Mintz, Copeland, and Bell acceptable?

I can’t speak for the criticisms of those players because they’re not mine (they’re also not as prevalent as you’re suggesting). What we have seen, though, is Bell moping on the court and acting seemingly disrespectful to coaches or players when he’s down. We’ve seen Mintz slap a guy. I don’t know about the Copeland criticisms because I haven’t seen his character criticized, at least not often enough to take note. He can be demonstrative and passionate.

Taylor, conversely, doesn’t really do anything. He doesn’t get in scuffles, he doesn’t talk trash noticeably, he doesn’t play selfishly, he’s just kind of there. He gets criticized for his play because his talent/play isn’t good. That’s about as deep as this goes.
 
Last edited:
YES!!! That's exactly what I'm saying!

So why are people comfortable saying that holes in Mintz's, Copeland's, and Bell's games are due to character defects?

I can't speak to people's criticism of Copeland's character, I don't see it at all personally, and I've sung his praises in terms of effort and energy and desire to win.

But I've seen Bell not give good effort, I've seen him mope, and I somehow missed but a bunch of people saw him get into a spat the other day with JJ or Cope and then get benched for a few minutes while we went with four guards in a zone.

I've seen Mintz not play hard defensively for stretches, gamble for steals and leave his teammates hanging, and take ill advised shots instead of passing.

As a result, I've criticized them for those things as a fan. I've also called Taylor a black hole on offense and made fun of how bad his shooting has been at times. I just haven't seen any evidence those things are caused by a lack of effort or a bad attitude.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Forum statistics

Threads
167,964
Messages
4,740,430
Members
5,934
Latest member
bspencer309

Online statistics

Members online
266
Guests online
1,231
Total visitors
1,497


Top Bottom