hmmm... UConn deserve another look?

[Van111]

No

UConn should go back to the Big East and go Independent in football, otherwise it is the AAC as long as it can stay together that is.

 

[SWC75]

It has nothing to do with the quality of their bball team. It has everything to do with their footprint and currently BC and Cuse cover it.

What's Wake Forest's "footprint"? Conferences should be about rivalries and strength of teams, not just "footprints".

The real problem is that with Louisville coming on board, we've already got 16 teams. I'd love to get rid of Notre Dame's "one foot in, the other out" program and replace it with UCONN, who would be a great rival for both BC and SU and brings 4 national titles to the ACC mix in basketball, (plus their 9 women's titles). We'd have 16 football schools, not 15.

 

[jdubs30]

Once Ollie bolts for the NBA (in a few years), UConn would kill to be even UMass.

San Francisco won multiple titles too

 

[jdubs30]

What's Wake Forest's "footprint"? Conferences should be about rivalries and strength of teams, not just "footprints".

Wake Forest is in North Carolina...that's in the footprint.

 

[SWC75]

Wake Forest is in North Carolina...that's in the footprint.

With three other teams.

 

[Alsacs]

UConn basketball will never die people need to stop this crap. They will be a player in basketball short of them getting a multiple year death penalty ruling from the NCAA which will never happen. The ACC isn't going to add UConn anytime soon because they are fine at 14 FB and 15 other sport members until ND has to join a conference if ever. The B1G isn't adding UConn because they just added 2 members for cable boxes and deemed Rutgers more valuable than UConn. If the B1G wanted a winner they would have taken UConn over Rutgers but they didn't. Also, the with GORs of the Big XII and ACC there would be no viable 16th school if the B1G wanted UConn. These threads don't look at reality. There isn't going to be any expansion on the horizon from any conference except maybe the Big XII adding 2 to 4 members if they want a CCG.

 

[jdubs30]

UConn basketball will never die people need to stop this crap. They will be a player in basketball short of them getting a multiple year death penalty ruling from the NCAA which will never happen. The ACC isn't going to add UConn anytime soon because they are fine at 14 FB and 15 other sport members until ND has to join a conference if ever. The B1G isn't adding UConn because they just added 2 members for cable boxes and deemed Rutgers more valuable than UConn. If the B1G wanted a winner they would have taken UConn over Rutgers but they didn't. Also, the with GORs of the Big XII and ACC there would be no viable 16th school if the B1G wanted UConn. These threads don't look at reality. There isn't going to be any expansion on the horizon from any conference except maybe the Big XII adding 2 to 4 members if they want a CCG.

UConn basketball will be 100% fine as long as Ollie stays, regardless of conference affiliation. If Ollie left for the NBA, they would be in a really tough spot.

 

[Alsacs]

UConn basketball will be 100% fine as long as Ollie stays, regardless of conference affiliation. If Ollie left for the NBA, they would be in a really tough spot.

Even without Ollie I think they could get a good coach and remain good/elite. Basketball isn't football you don't need to be in a BCS league to win a NC. Wichita State got a 1 seed from the freaking MVC this season and Gonzaga got a 1 seed from the WCC last season. UConn basketball won't die unless they get the death penalty or they hire a bunch of GRob coaches to coach their bball program.

 

[Otto'd]

UConn basketball will be 100% fine as long as Ollie stays, regardless of conference affiliation. If Ollie left for the NBA, they would be in a really tough spot.

Really like Ollie as a coach and this could be true but many of us said the same thing about Calhoun retiring and they seemed to land on their feet.

I've given up hating on them, because the opposite of my thoughts and wants for their demise seem to always come back and bite me.

 

[rrlbees]

UConn basketball will never die people need to stop this crap. They will be a player in basketball short of them getting a multiple year death penalty ruling from the NCAA which will never happen. The ACC isn't going to add UConn anytime soon because they are fine at 14 FB and 15 other sport members until ND has to join a conference if ever. The B1G isn't adding UConn because they just added 2 members for cable boxes and deemed Rutgers more valuable than UConn. If the B1G wanted a winner they would have taken UConn over Rutgers but they didn't. Also, the with GORs of the Big XII and ACC there would be no viable 16th school if the B1G wanted UConn. These threads don't look at reality. There isn't going to be any expansion on the horizon from any conference except maybe the Big XII adding 2 to 4 members if they want a CCG.

What happens when the P5 splits?

 

[Alsacs]

The only changes on the horizon will be the creation of a Division 4 for the BCS leagues to be able to compensate players with a stipend, full-attendance scholarships or something else. The P5 aren't leaving the NCAA because they would be liable to anti-trust lawsuits up the wazoo from states without BCS programs. The NCAA tournament signed a 14-year, nearly $11 billion agreement with CBS and Turner Sports for the TV rights to the 68-team tournament. The NCAA won't let these P5 conferences leave because of that money. Cities like Boise, ID, Providence, RI, Albuquerque,NM all are cities where the NCAA tournament is played and no P5 conference team is located and if the P5 left it would result in the loss of $$$ and would be liable for Anti-trust lawsuits, commerce clause lawsuits. The P5 just want more autonomy from the NCAA which is what they will get. The rules will be written by the P5 schools, but they will leave to where a school from any conference could choose to follow them. UConn will need to drop football or something, but the rules written won't prevent them from competing in basketball or they could have boosters foot the bills or something. These rules from the P5 conferences won't kill UConn basketball it will kill UConn football.

 

[LennX6]

Once Ollie bolts for the NBA (in a few years), UConn would kill to be even UMass.

San Francisco won multiple titles too

Don't shortchange NYU

 

[rrlbees]

The only changes on the horizon will be the creation of a Division 4 for the BCS leagues to be able to compensate players with a stipend, full-attendance scholarships or something else. The P5 aren't leaving the NCAA because they would be liable to anti-trust lawsuits up the wazoo from states without BCS programs. The NCAA tournament signed a 14-year, nearly $11 billion agreement with CBS and Turner Sports for the TV rights to the 68-team tournament. The NCAA won't let these P5 conferences leave because of that money. Cities like Boise, ID, Providence, RI, Albuquerque,NM all are cities where the NCAA tournament is played and no P5 conference team is located and if the P5 left it would result in the loss of $$$ and would be liable for Anti-trust lawsuits, commerce clause lawsuits. The P5 just want more autonomy from the NCAA which is what they will get. The rules will be written by the P5 schools, but they will leave to where a school from any conference could choose to follow them. UConn will need to drop football or something, but the rules written won't prevent them from competing in basketball or they could have boosters foot the bills or something. These rules from the P5 conferences won't kill UConn basketball it will kill UConn football.

The whole point of realignment, which isn't done, is $$$$. Both TV and brand. Driven by football. 15 years ago people poo pooed mega conferences and the quest for 4 x16. While that may end up being slightly different in numbers, the concept and goal remains the same. For the big schools to get and keep all the $$$$ and not share with the smaller schools. Not rivalries, not location, not for good old sakes. Small bring defined as small in brand, TV and football. One sport cannot sustain an athletic program when schools in the P5 are getting $20m to $30m per team per year. That's an awful lot of private donations to a school not part of the P5. When the BE grew so fast and so big it was because the best players wants to play with and against the best. When you are both playing against mid major teams plus not getting the big bucks flowing into your athletic department, it will be a slow death. And because of the amount of $$$$ talked about in the future, the P5 will break from the others in order to maximize their keep.

And FWIW, I believe UConn will be in a P5 eventually. Have always said that. Probably the ACC.

 

[gilardino]

Uconn can rot in he$$. St joes had then beat ans ruined it

 

[Alsacs]

The whole point of realignment, which isn't done, is $$$$. Both TV and brand. Driven by football. 15 years ago people poo pooed mega conferences and the quest for 4 x16. While that may end up being slightly different in numbers, the concept and goal remains the same. For the big schools to get and keep all the $$$$ and not share with the smaller schools. Not rivalries, not location, not for good old sakes. Small bring defined as small in brand, TV and football. One sport cannot sustain an athletic program when schools in the P5 are getting $20m to $30m per team per year. That's an awful lot of private donations to a school not part of the P5. When the BE grew so fast and so big it was because the best players wants to play with and against the best. When you are both playing against mid major teams plus not getting the big bucks flowing into your athletic department, it will be a slow death. And because of the amount of $$$$ talked about in the future, the P5 will break from the others in order to maximize their keep.

And FWIW, I believe UConn will be in a P5 eventually. Have always said that. Probably the ACC.

Good luck getting any TV network to pay what they do for the NCAA basketball tournament for just the P5. The men's basketball tournament generates most of the revenue for the NCAA. The P5 already control/monopolize the Football money. What the P5 want is autonomy from some of the rules from the NCAA. There are 65 schools in the ACC, B1G, Big XII, Pac-12, SEC and the NCAA has another 285 members playing Division 1 athletics. The rules that govern those 65 members are controlled by a body that consists of 350 members what the mega-conferences are doing is threatening to withdraw from the NCAA and create their own body which would allow them to govern how they want and the leverage they have is the NCAA basketball contract that generates the money for all of those members. What the P5 want is to stay within the NCAA's jurisdiction, but create a division separate from those other 285 members and keep everyone happy. The P5 could run its own basketball tournament and other championship competitions, but it would be expensive and they like the NCAA from that bureaucratic stuff. All these threats are to get the Stony Brook, IUPUI, Central Michigan, Boise State, Northwestern State, Marshall, Florida International, Rhode Island, Fordham member schools to agree to the P5's demand of a separate division within the NCAA which would allow the Texas, Alabama, Duke, Southern California, Michigan school be able to have updated rules. It will happen and the P5 won't break off from the NCAA because the anti-trust lawsuits which could be filed easily and Sen. Orrin Hatch from Utah already threatened it before Utah was invited into the Pac-12. Just have a Northeast Senator, Idaho, New Mexico, Nevada, Dakotas Senator threaten the P5 schools and look out tax exempt status for these so called academic non-profit universities.

UConn won't be cut out of basketball, but their football program is dead unless they get into a P5 conference. The NCAA gets very little money from the BCS schools in FB the bowl system, CFB Playoff, and the previous BCS weren't paying the NCAA much at all those conferences were making the lion share of the money.

 

[Otto'd]

Uconn can rot in he$$. St joes had then beat ans ruined it

Ah, but they didn't. They toughed through it. Almost every championship run has a close call. If Ennis makes one of the last 2 shots against Dayton maybe we make that run.

I give them credit. They were simply mentally tougher than every team in the tournament.

And they beat the overall 1 seed plus a 2 a 3 and a 4 ( who was the odds on favorite to win the title.

I think I read that this year was the first time a team beat the top 4 seeds in a bracket. Crazy thing is Kentucky did it too!

Weird year in hoops.

 

[Btstimpy]

Good luck getting any TV network to pay what they do for the NCAA basketball tournament for just the P5. The men's basketball tournament generates most of the revenue for the NCAA. The P5 already control/monopolize the Football money. What the P5 want is autonomy from some of the rules from the NCAA. There are 65 schools in the ACC, B1G, Big XII, Pac-12, SEC and the NCAA has another 285 members playing Division 1 athletics. The rules that govern those 65 members are controlled by a body that consists of 350 members what the mega-conferences are doing is threatening to withdraw from the NCAA and create their own body which would allow them to govern how they want and the leverage they have is the NCAA basketball contract that generates the money for all of those members. What the P5 want is to stay within the NCAA's jurisdiction, but create a division separate from those other 285 members and keep everyone happy. The P5 could run its own basketball tournament and other championship competitions, but it would be expensive and they like the NCAA from that bureaucratic stuff. All these threats are to get the Stony Brook, IUPUI, Central Michigan, Boise State, Northwestern State, Marshall, Florida International, Rhode Island, Fordham member schools to agree to the P5's demand of a separate division within the NCAA which would allow the Texas, Alabama, Duke, Southern California, Michigan school be able to have updated rules. It will happen and the P5 won't break off from the NCAA because the anti-trust lawsuits which could be filed easily and Sen. Orrin Hatch from Utah already threatened it before Utah was invited into the Pac-12. Just have a Northeast Senator, Idaho, New Mexico, Nevada, Dakotas Senator threaten the P5 schools and look out tax exempt status for these so called academic non-profit universities.

UConn won't be cut out of basketball, but their football program is dead unless they get into a P5 conference. The NCAA gets very little money from the BCS schools in FB the bowl system, CFB Playoff, and the previous BCS weren't paying the NCAA much at all those conferences were making the lion share of the money.

Dennis Dodd has an article out explaining how the 5 Conference Forum will be set up and what areas it will be allowed to have special rules for the 65 members of the P5 Conferences. It's really 64 members and Notre Dame with its squirrelly situation. This is expected to pass and be enacted this week.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...fined-ncaa-boards-agenda-for-change-this-week

I'm an advocate of the ACC adding UConn. I see their hanging out there as a loose end in the ACC's plans of being the eastern conference and of having New England and New York City be considered ACC footprint. I think that their sitting out there like they are opens up the ACC for further marginalization in the North East by the Big Ten. If the ACC has UConn, the ACC would marginalize the Big Ten in New York. Syracuse and UConn basketball along with Notre Dame football would marginalize in New York City anything that Penn State and Rutgers could offer. But putting UConn with Penn State and Rutgers would give the Big Ten a significant claim to New York City and would marginalize Boston College in New England. I think that the ACC is taking a big gamble in not addressing this.

 

[Alsacs]

Dennis Dodd has an article out explaining how the 5 Conference Forum will be set up and what areas it will be allowed to have special rules for the 65 members of the P5 Conferences. It's really 64 members and Notre Dame with its squirrelly situation. This is expected to pass and be enacted this week.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...fined-ncaa-boards-agenda-for-change-this-week

I'm an advocate of the ACC adding UConn. I see their hanging out there as a loose end in the ACC's plans of being the eastern conference and of having New England and New York City be considered ACC footprint. I think that their sitting out there like they are opens up the ACC for further marginalization in the North East by the Big Ten. If the ACC has UConn, the ACC would marginalize the Big Ten in New York. Syracuse and UConn basketball along with Notre Dame football would marginalize in New York City anything that Penn State and Rutgers could offer. But putting UConn with Penn State and Rutgers would give the Big Ten a significant claim to New York City and would marginalize Boston College in New England. I think that the ACC is taking a big gamble in not addressing this.

I don't think UConn add more $$$ to the ACC by itself thus I wouldn't add them. However, if Notre Dame agreed to become a full member and it came down to Cincinnati or UConn honestly I wouldn't care. I don't feel bad for UConn because they wanted too late in the game to add Division 1 football and only did it with the golden ticket of being in a BCS league. Other non-BCS schools like Cincinnati, Louisville, Utah, BYU were in the game for a lot longer and weren't in a BCS league with promise to move up to Division 1 football.
UConn basketball is a top 10 brand and their conference affiliation might hurt them in seeding some years, but it won't kill nor hurt their program. The ACC doesn't need UConn IMO right now. The B1G isn't going to add UConn their is no 16th team for them as the ACC and Big XII both have GORs. If the B1G could add schools they would look at North Carolina, Virginia, Oklahoma, Texas if they could get their ideal additions and not UConn. The ACC is fine leaving them in the American until Notre Dame ever wanted to commit full-time or just be happy with the 14 members they have now.

 

[rrlbees]

Good luck getting any TV network to pay what they do for the NCAA basketball tournament for just the P5. The men's basketball tournament generates most of the revenue for the NCAA. The P5 already control/monopolize the Football money. What the P5 want is autonomy from some of the rules from the NCAA. There are 65 schools in the ACC, B1G, Big XII, Pac-12, SEC and the NCAA has another 285 members playing Division 1 athletics. The rules that govern those 65 members are controlled by a body that consists of 350 members what the mega-conferences are doing is threatening to withdraw from the NCAA and create their own body which would allow them to govern how they want and the leverage they have is the NCAA basketball contract that generates the money for all of those members. What the P5 want is to stay within the NCAA's jurisdiction, but create a division separate from those other 285 members and keep everyone happy. The P5 could run its own basketball tournament and other championship competitions, but it would be expensive and they like the NCAA from that bureaucratic stuff. All these threats are to get the Stony Brook, IUPUI, Central Michigan, Boise State, Northwestern State, Marshall, Florida International, Rhode Island, Fordham member schools to agree to the P5's demand of a separate division within the NCAA which would allow the Texas, Alabama, Duke, Southern California, Michigan school be able to have updated rules. It will happen and the P5 won't break off from the NCAA because the anti-trust lawsuits which could be filed easily and Sen. Orrin Hatch from Utah already threatened it before Utah was invited into the Pac-12. Just have a Northeast Senator, Idaho, New Mexico, Nevada, Dakotas Senator threaten the P5 schools and look out tax exempt status for these so called academic non-profit universities.

UConn won't be cut out of basketball, but their football program is dead unless they get into a P5 conference. The NCAA gets very little money from the BCS schools in FB the bowl system, CFB Playoff, and the previous BCS weren't paying the NCAA much at all those conferences were making the lion share of the money.

The NCAA will have no say in what the P5 does. They haven't yet with any expansion and realignment to date. And FWIW, the BCS contract ends the same year as the ND contract and 1 year after the CBS deal ends. Life will change again in 10 years. The top 64-80 athletic programs will get their cake and eat it too.

 

[omniorange]

What's Wake Forest's "footprint"? Conferences should be about rivalries and strength of teams, not just "footprints".

The real problem is that with Louisville coming on board, we've already got 16 teams. I'd love to get rid of Notre Dame's "one foot in, the other out" program and replace it with UCONN, who would be a great rival for both BC and SU and brings 4 national titles to the ACC mix in basketball, (plus their 9 women's titles). We'd have 16 football schools, not 15.

Agree that conferences should be more about rivalries and strength of teams, not just footprints. But let's face it, if the ACC were to hit the reset button tomorrow and start over, Wake would be in a very precarious situation. Asking what is Wake's footprint as if their rivalries were somehow the reason they would remain in the ACC in such a reset scenario is immaterial.

And I haven't finished reading the new posts in this thread yet, and I'm sure someone probably has pointed this out but the addition of Louisville actually keeps the league at 15. However, staying at 15 isn't a big deal, even should ND decide to come as a full member if the rules changes regarding the football championship game.

Ultimately if the ACC were to consider expanding to 16 and taking in your main point about rivalries and strength of teams, of the realistic candidates, UConn brings better rivalries with them than does Cincinnati. Obviously they (and we) would prefer PSU or even Maryland back, but neither of those is likely to happen.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[rrlbees]

Dennis Dodd has an article out explaining how the 5 Conference Forum will be set up and what areas it will be allowed to have special rules for the 65 members of the P5 Conferences. It's really 64 members and Notre Dame with its squirrelly situation. This is expected to pass and be enacted this week.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...fined-ncaa-boards-agenda-for-change-this-week

I'm an advocate of the ACC adding UConn. I see their hanging out there as a loose end in the ACC's plans of being the eastern conference and of having New England and New York City be considered ACC footprint. I think that their sitting out there like they are opens up the ACC for further marginalization in the North East by the Big Ten. If the ACC has UConn, the ACC would marginalize the Big Ten in New York. Syracuse and UConn basketball along with Notre Dame football would marginalize in New York City anything that Penn State and Rutgers could offer. But putting UConn with Penn State and Rutgers would give the Big Ten a significant claim to New York City and would marginalize Boston College in New England. I think that the ACC is taking a big gamble in not addressing this.

That's a pretty telling article. It's the NCAA's way of bending over and trying to appease the p5 which will only go so far and last so long. The NCAA is desperate because they are losing control and will have lost it all in another decade. The Uconns of the world better find a home.

 

[Alsacs]

The NCAA will have no say in what the P5 does. They haven't yet with any expansion and realignment to date. And FWIW, the BCS contract ends the same year as the ND contract and 1 year after the CBS deal ends. Life will change again in 10 years. The top 64-80 athletic programs will get their cake and eat it too.

The NCAA hasn't stopped expansion, but they control the rules that govern the P5 conferences. You aren't getting the point. The value of the NCAA is the money it gets from the men's basketball tournament. If the P5 withdrew from the NCAA they could run their own tournament for basketball and all other's sports. However, they wouldn't get the same money that the NCAA gets because of the David vs. Goliath aspect. Also, the P5 would have to take care of all the leg work the NCAA does do. It wouldn't impossible, but its not as easy as it seems. The P5 don't want to leave the NCAA its all a bluff to get exactly what our UVA friend posted in his message. Allowing Ohio State to give its athletes full cost attendance. Read that article he linked. The top 64-80 programs will have their own separate division within the NCAA division 1. The men's basketball tournament will remain under the NCAA jurisdiction, but the athletes from the P5 will have different rules governing them than kids from the other Division 1 conference. The big problem right now is the P5 conference schools are outnumbered by the non-P5 in the NCAA governing meeting. These threats to withdraw are to get these non-P5 conferences like the MAC, Sun Belt, Southland, Missouri Valley, West Coast Conference, SWAC etc. to agree to this new division for the P5 or they will lose their NCAA tournament money.

 

[rrlbees]

The NCAA hasn't stopped expansion, but they control the rules that govern the P5 conferences. You aren't getting the point. The value of the NCAA is the money it gets from the men's basketball tournament. If the P5 withdrew from the NCAA they could run their own tournament for basketball and all other's sports. However, they wouldn't get the same money that the NCAA gets because of the David vs. Goliath aspect. Also, the P5 would have to take care of all the leg work the NCAA does do. It wouldn't impossible, but its not as easy as it seems. The P5 don't want to leave the NCAA its all a bluff to get exactly what our UVA friend posted in his message. Allowing Ohio State to give its athletes full cost attendance. Read that article he linked. The top 64-80 programs will have their own separate division within the NCAA division 1. The men's basketball tournament will remain under the NCAA jurisdiction, but the athletes from the P5 will have different rules governing them than kids from the other Division 1 conference. The big problem right now is the P5 conference schools are outnumbered by the non-P5 in the NCAA governing meeting. These threats to withdraw are to get these non-P5 conferences like the MAC, Sun Belt, Southland, Missouri Valley, West Coast Conference, SWAC etc. to agree to this new division for the P5 or they will lose their NCAA tournament money.

You could look at it in reverse too. The current David and Goliath wouldn't exist but with every P5 team in the tournament there is always going to be a 1 seed and a bottom seed regardless of the name. Besides the networks would be over a barrel. They may not like it but they aren't going to say no to the P5 who has all the David's. As to $$$$, maybe total contract would be less but per team would probably be more. You've even said yourself a lot of money goes to the NCAA. Probably a bigger share than they get for the football BCS games. The P5 wants that too. They don't want to share with the NCAA nor the mid majors. In due time. Based on all the TV contracts including ND, that looks to be in 10 years.

 

[SWC75]

Agree that conferences should be more about rivalries and strength of teams, not just footprints. But let's face it, if the ACC were to hit the reset button tomorrow and start over, Wake would be in a very precarious situation. Asking what is Wake's footprint as if their rivalries were somehow the reason they would remain in the ACC in such a reset scenario is immaterial.

And I haven't finished reading the new posts in this thread yet, and I'm sure someone probably has pointed this out but the addition of Louisville actually keeps the league at 15. However, staying at 15 isn't a big deal, even should ND decide to come as a full member if the rules changes regarding the football championship game.

Ultimately if the ACC were to consider expanding to 16 and taking in your main point about rivalries and strength of teams, of the realistic candidates, UConn brings better rivalries with them than does Cincinnati. Obviously they (and we) would prefer PSU or even Maryland back, but neither of those is likely to happen.

Cheers,
Neil

It's so easy to forget that Maryland is leaving, since it makes so little sense. Oh Lord

 

[Btstimpy]

I don't think UConn add more $$$ to the ACC by itself thus I wouldn't add them. However, if Notre Dame agreed to become a full member and it came down to Cincinnati or UConn honestly I wouldn't care. I don't feel bad for UConn because they wanted too late in the game to add Division 1 football and only did it with the golden ticket of being in a BCS league. Other non-BCS schools like Cincinnati, Louisville, Utah, BYU were in the game for a lot longer and weren't in a BCS league with promise to move up to Division 1 football.
UConn basketball is a top 10 brand and their conference affiliation might hurt them in seeding some years, but it won't kill nor hurt their program. The ACC doesn't need UConn IMO right now. The B1G isn't going to add UConn their is no 16th team for them as the ACC and Big XII both have GORs. If the B1G could add schools they would look at North Carolina, Virginia, Oklahoma, Texas if they could get their ideal additions and not UConn. The ACC is fine leaving them in the American until Notre Dame ever wanted to commit full-time or just be happy with the 14 members they have now.

Well the ACC certainly can't add UConn or anyone else for that matter if they dilute the financial picture rather than add to it and carry their own share. I just see this loose end in the tri-state area with the ACC having a NY team and part of ND, the Big Ten with a NJ team, and then UConn hanging out there. Cincinnati doesn't do much for me. They will always be badly overshadowed by Ohio State. If it comes to that, I'd be more keen on revisiting West Virginia.