Holding on Wake but Dino Declines?!

[BillSU]

Before the half Babers declined a holding penalty on Wake which would have given them the ball for a 51 yard FG attempt. Wake has a good kicker but it would have forced him to make it. If he makes or misses we get the ball back and there’s time for us to put up a score and we get the ball to start the second half. Instead they have the ball 3rd and 23 which they make and go on to score.

Explain that one Dino?!!! I don’t get it at all, what is your take?

 

[kmart128]

I mean i get it. He took the risk to keep 3 off the board and the risk cane back the bite us and effect the outcome of the game. If a coach was gonna take that risk then they need to draw up something better defensively than prevent defense

 

[NineOneSeven]

Huge moment that cost us.

 

[Stern]

He isn't exactly Curly Lambeau walking on the sidelines. The mismanagement is painful to watch most weeks at this point.

 

[Orangello]

Ohana

 

[CanadianSU]

I hate the decision but also d has to make a play. The sitting back was worse tbh

 

[Louie and Bouie]

Before the half Babers declined a holding penalty on Wake which would have given them the ball for a 51 yard FG attempt. Wake has a good kicker but it would have forced him to make it. If he makes or misses we get the ball back and there’s time for us to put up a score and we get the ball to start the second half. Instead they have the ball 3rd and 23 which they make and go on to score.

Explain that one Dino?!!! I don’t get it at all, what is your take?

I really wanted him to say it was a bad decision after the game but he doubled down saying the Kicker was booming them in pre-game. He failed to mention it would have been a career long.

It was a a ridiculous decision and its indefensible. Really irked me when he justified it post-game. Amateur hour.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Before the half Babers declined a holding penalty on Wake which would have given them the ball for a 51 yard FG attempt. Wake has a good kicker but it would have forced him to make it. If he makes or misses we get the ball back and there’s time for us to put up a score and we get the ball to start the second half. Instead they have the ball 3rd and 23 which they make and go on to score.

Explain that one Dino?!!! I don’t get it at all, what is your take?

The extra 10 yards clearly took them out of FG range, even for the kicker with the all-time highest FG% in NCAA history. That had something to do with it.

Then, Dino goes for the FG late, after leaving 3 points on the board last week vs. Fla State that could have made the difference, and Szmyt misses a chippy.

I mean, he makes some bad calls (granted, way too many bad calls ...), but he TRIED to do a few things differently this week, and they still backfired.

 

[Stern]

What makes the decision so bad is yes you push them back but a silly "hands to the face" or "defensive holding" call gives them an automatic first down. And SU had been called for both prior to that point.

You either force them to kick a 50+ yard field goal, worst case they make it you tip your cap and you go into halftime up 8. OR......they punt and you run out the clock go to halftime and get the ball to start the 2nd half.

Again Dino isn't exactly Curly Lambeau on the sideline. These mistakes are par for the course at this point.

 

[HOFCeluck]

The extra 10 yards clearly took them out of FG range, even for the kicker with the all-time highest FG% in NCAA history. That had something to do with it.

Then, Dino goes for the FG late, after leaving 3 points on the board last week vs. Fla State that could have made the difference, and Szmyt misses a chippy.

I mean, he makes some bad calls (granted, way too many bad calls ...), but he TRIED to do a few things differently this week, and they still backfired.

I mean he’s trying..I guess. He’s not making the same dumb mistakes every week. He’s just...finding...other dumb mistakes.

 

[NineOneSeven]

The extra 10 yards clearly took them out of FG range, even for the kicker with the all-time highest FG% in NCAA history. That had something to do with it.

Then, Dino goes for the FG late, after leaving 3 points on the board last week vs. Fla State that could have made the difference, and Szmyt misses a chippy.

I mean, he makes some bad calls (granted, way too many bad calls ...), but he TRIED to do a few things differently this week, and they still backfired.

Yeah. As Scooch said in another thread, he makes some bad calls but the borderline ones also don’t work out a lot. It’s actually pretty crazy sometimes thinking on it.

 

[Arangeman]

He said in his presser kid was booming them from way further pre-game and we just had to stop them from getting 23 yards. Um, no guy, if they get 10 yards it’s a moot point. We rushed 3 and spied. We were basically saying we will give you anything underneath. Which probably would have gained 10 yards.

Just a poorly conceived risk/reward decision.

 

[orangecuse]

My take is…if only he did actually decline the penalty! That would’ve then set up a 4th and 13 and the 51 yard FG attempt. By NOT declining it and TAKING the penalty it gave Wake another down and they capitalized big time when we went prevent on 3rd and 23, which ultimately led to a huge TD shortly afterwards. That major blunder significantly changed the complexion of the game.

 

[Ragman2000]

Honestly it was a great call if it worked out. Our D was playing great and honestly you expect a draw play or a low percentage conversion there and it is a high likelihood they come away with zero in a close game. It didn't work out. Luck hasn't been on our side in some of our gambles this year but it is what it is.

 

[CousCuse]

You have to give credit to Wake and Hartman for making a great play, that's why they are an undefeated team. I was more dismayed when the offense turtled up on the previous possession, your not going to take gown a tough team that knows how to win by using that strategy.

 

[007]

I really wanted him to say it was a bad decision after the game but he doubled down saying the Kicker was booming them in pre-game. He failed to mention it would have been a career long.

It was a a ridiculous decision and its indefensible. Really irked me when he justified it post-game. Amateur hour.

After the game, DB also said that he would make the same decision 10/10 times because the odds of making 3rd and 23 were so stacked against the offense. One of the problems with that line of reasoning is that he was assessing the wrong probability. If you decline the penalty, they have to kick a 50-51 yard FG on 4th down. If you take the 10-yard penalty, you are actually betting that you can hold them to less than 10 yards to make the 4th down kick even longer.

Accepting the penalty gave WF a 2nd chance at making the FG more manageable, let alone taking on the additional risk that they might score on the extra play or, gulp, make the 1st down.

 

[JRHEETER]

Well as Dino says he’s one of the best at clock management!!!!

 

[SU94]

Before the half Babers declined a holding penalty on Wake which would have given them the ball for a 51 yard FG attempt. Wake has a good kicker but it would have forced him to make it. If he makes or misses we get the ball back and there’s time for us to put up a score and we get the ball to start the second half. Instead they have the ball 3rd and 23 which they make and go on to score.

Explain that one Dino?!!! I don’t get it at all, what is your take?

Dino make an aggressive and mathematically sound decision there. Expected points were working in his favor. Wake got a bit lucky. Wish we’d sent another backer.

You cannot play the shift and then call for his head when a 13-hopper scoots through where the shortstop is traditionally positioned.

 

[007]

Well as Dino says he’s one of the best at clock management!!!!

This particular call was not about clock management.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

Dino make an aggressive and mathematically sound decision there. Expected points were working in his favor. Wake got a bit lucky. Wish we’d sent another backer.

You cannot play the shift and then call for his head when a 13-hopper scoots through where the shortstop is traditionally positioned.

It wasn't just the 1st down that could have hurt us there. Any play over 10 yards gets them closer for the FG. Further, the Kicker had literally never made a kick in game from 51 yards. Never.

On top of that you then play a deep zone and let the WR catch it in front of you at the sticks.

It was a horrendous call and takes some real mental gymnastics to say it was sound.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

I mean he’s trying..I guess. He’s not making the same dumb mistakes every week. He’s just...finding...other dumb mistakes.

A little too much like teaching freshmen. To paraphrase another poster, this is supposed to be my ESCAPE...

 

[CousCuse]

It wasn't just the 1st down that could have hurt us there. Any play over 10 yards gets them closer for the FG. Further, the Kicker had literally never made a kick in game from 51 yards. Never.

On top of that you then play a deep zone and let the WR catch it in front of you at the sticks.

It was a horrendous call and takes some real mental gymnastics to say it was sound.

Wake does have some impressive receivers that can go up and get the ball.

 

[Chip]

Giving up a field goal isn’t a bad thing. And our staff should have known that he’s never made one over 50. I’d rather have the good kicker on the field than the good QB.

Maybe they did and that was the disagreement on the sideline.

How many coaches make that call? Very few I would think.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

After the game, DB also said that he would make the same decision 10/10 times because the odds of making 3rd and 23 were so stacked against the offense. One of the problems with that line of reasoning is that he was assessing the wrong probability. If you decline the penalty, they have to kick a 50-51 yard FG on 4th down. If you take the 10-yard penalty, you are actually betting that you can hold them to less than 10 yards to make the 4th down kick even longer.

Accepting the penalty gave WF a 2nd chance at making the FG more manageable, let alone taking on the additional risk that they might score on the extra play or, gulp, make the 1st down.

This is exactly right.

Absurd of Dino to double down.

And also, who cares if a kicker is booming in pregame? That's insane.

Edited to add: And then to make the defensive play call to sit back? It bottles the mind.

 

[Faegan]

I like that Dino wants to take chances but his choices are questionable. That being said, I'm strongly in favor of keeping him. You have to be pragmatic, and it's hard to imagine us not going through ANOTHER coaching change without a transition period that hurts recruiting.