Holding on Wake but Dino Declines?!

[Scooch]

I bet Smyzt was booming them in pregame too.

Making any decision based on how a kicker is doing in pregame is so dumb. I mean I had friends in high school who could make 45+ yard FGs on a turf field with no one rushing at them too.

 

[DilemaCuse]

Before the half Babers declined a holding penalty on Wake which would have given them the ball for a 51 yard FG attempt. Wake has a good kicker but it would have forced him to make it. If he makes or misses we get the ball back and there’s time for us to put up a score and we get the ball to start the second half. Instead they have the ball 3rd and 23 which they make and go on to score.

Explain that one Dino?!!! I don’t get it at all, what is your take?

NO HE TOOK THE PENALTY AND THE PENALTY YARDS

I was at the game and immediatley thought decline it to make it 4th and 13. Put the onus on Clausen to make a decision to kick a long fg or go for 4th and 13. Dinos decision to try to push them out of fg range backfired. He got greedy

 

[orlandoorange]

It was an assinine decision.

Even if they don't get a first down and "only" pick up 15, the kick is 5 yards shorter than had he declined the penalty.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

I'd think that accepting a penalty that takes a team out of FG range is better than letting them kick the FG. 31 out of 32 NFL coaches would have made the same call.

What do I know?

I always thought that if you had a man on 2nd base, you bunted him over to 3rd. But all the analytics people tell me that I'm wrong. You have a better chance of scoring from 2nd with 0 outs than you do of scoring from 3rd with 1 out.

You can't predict baseball. Or football.

If its an NFL kicker the call becomes debatable. These guys aren't. Huge difference especially for a kicker on the road.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Making any decision based on how a kicker is doing in pregame is so dumb. I mean I had friends in high school who could make 45+ yard FGs on a turf field with no one rushing at them too.

Agree. I could throw over them mountains too if coach put me in that state title game. No doubt in my mind.

 

[baggerbob]

I really wanted him to say it was a bad decision after the game but he doubled down saying the Kicker was booming them in pre-game. He failed to mention it would have been a career long.

It was a a ridiculous decision and its indefensible. Really irked me when he justified it post-game. Amateur hour.

NO HE TOOK THE PENALTY AND THE PENALTY YARDS

I was at the game and immediatley thought decline it to make it 4th and 13. Put the onus on Clausen to make a decision to kick a long fg or go for 4th and 13. Dinos decision to try to push them out of fg range backfired. He got greedy

The reason it was a big mistake, was The defense just bailed out his punter for another terrible punt. They were excited they got the stop, and he decides, not good enough and keeps them on the field.
Absolutely terrible decision on his part.
Reward your defense, his call was like a punishment, you didn't do enough.

 

[DilemaCuse]

The reason it was a big mistake, was The defense just bailed out his punter for another terrible punt. They were excited they got the stop, and he decides, not good enough and keeps them on the field.
Absolutely terrible decision on his part.
Reward your defense, his call was like a punishment, you didn't do enough.

I didnt even think of that aspect but your right, i remember the play on 3rd they were fired up to get the stop and then he keeps them out on the field

 

[AZOrange]

He said in his presser kid was booming them from way further pre-game and we just had to stop them from getting 23 yards. Um, no guy, if they get 10 yards it’s a moot point. We rushed 3 and spied. We were basically saying we will give you anything underneath. Which probably would have gained 10 yards.

Just a poorly conceived risk/reward decision.

The scary part is that even if you explained this very simple concept to them they wouldn’t understand it…

 

[Arangeman]

The scary part is that even if you explained this very simple concept to them they wouldn’t understand it…

Yep. Dino defended his decision.

 

[AZOrange]

Yep. Dino defended his decision.

Omg

 

[Dcuse]

Before the half Babers declined a holding penalty on Wake which would have given them the ball for a 51 yard FG attempt. Wake has a good kicker but it would have forced him to make it. If he makes or misses we get the ball back and there’s time for us to put up a score and we get the ball to start the second half. Instead they have the ball 3rd and 23 which they make and go on to score.

Explain that one Dino?!!! I don’t get it at all, what is your take?

He DIDN’T decline the penalty he TOOK the penalty. If you’re going to criticize the coach at least get the facts straight.

 

[NineOneSeven]

He DIDN’T decline the penalty he TOOK the penalty. If you’re going to criticize the coach at least get the facts straight.

Well I think the official misspoke on the play too.

 

[kcsu]

After the game, DB also said that he would make the same decision 10/10 times because the odds of making 3rd and 23 were so stacked against the offense. One of the problems with that line of reasoning is that he was assessing the wrong probability. If you decline the penalty, they have to kick a 50-51 yard FG on 4th down. If you take the 10-yard penalty, you are actually betting that you can hold them to less than 10 yards to make the 4th down kick even longer.

Accepting the penalty gave WF a 2nd chance at making the FG more manageable, let alone taking on the additional risk that they might score on the extra play or, gulp, make the 1st down.

Dinos not the brightest bulb in the lamp on game decisions.
Absolutely crazy decision. I seriously question his ability to think clearly when under pressure.

 

[kcsu]

Omg

Dino needs to go.

 

[qdawgg]

Who cares if their kicker happens to make a career long FG. You’d still be up 2 scores - 8 points. The alternative is what happened, they score a TD and are within a point.

One scenario is clearly better than the other. Force the kicker to make something he’s NEVER made and IF he does, you’re still ahead by 8 points and very much in control of the game.

 

[FloridaFan]

Dino make an aggressive and mathematically sound decision there. Expected points were working in his favor. Wake got a bit lucky. Wish we’d sent another backer.

You cannot play the shift and then call for his head when a 13-hopper scoots through where the shortstop is traditionally positioned.

is it actually an +EV call though. With it being 3rd and 23 and with the defense we were playing on that 3rd down id argue we made a -EV call there since the offense doesnt have to hit a first down to be a success, simply reach the 10 yards back that they lost on holding.

 

[anomander]

While this is a legitimate point, they would still need to make 10-15 yards. That's not a given. How many sacks did we have in that game?



This is a red herring. The kid is the all-time leader in NCAA history in FG percentage at over 90 % with more than 50 career attempts. His career long was only 3 yards shorter. It's not like he was crap outside of 35 yards. You're talking 3 yards, and a kid who is incredibly accurate. Not the obvious choice you make it out to be.


A judgment call that went against us. Not even among his worst 5 calls of the game, honestly. You have oversold your point; you've said it about 4 times now in this thread.

We easily could have still won this game if only Andre made his FG. People say "well, it was 45 yards ...".

Newsflash - they were both kicking indoors in climate controlled conditions. They are each of their respective school's best kickers in team history. Both should be expected to make a 45-50 yard attempt at least 80% of the time.

Other factors go into it. He makes the FG to cut it to 8. That gives us the ball with 4 minutes to go so we can run our regular offense and then get the ball again after half. We could potentially score twice before Wake even sees the ball again. Instead they get a TD to cut it to 4 and we get the ball with no time left in the quarter . Not to mention you only rush 3 which would give back the 10 yards at best . That was the worst call so far this sesson

 

[Crusty]

Before the half Babers declined a holding penalty on Wake which would have given them the ball for a 51 yard FG attempt. Wake has a good kicker but it would have forced him to make it. If he makes or misses we get the ball back and there’s time for us to put up a score and we get the ball to start the second half. Instead they have the ball 3rd and 23 which they make and go on to score.

Explain that one Dino?!!! I don’t get it at all, what is your take?

Here's the thing. They played a prevent defense with only 3 guys rushing, almost guaranteed a pass underneath would put them back into the same field position as they would have had if we had declined the penalty. Their QB killed us when he has all day.

 

[Chip]

ACC refs man. When we need them to call holding, they don’t. When we don’t need them to call holding, they do.

 

[Finwad32]

This was the worst decision in the game… 51 yd fg that IF he makes keeps the lead to 8 at the break getting ball. This flipped the mo and ultimately the trajectory of the whole game. It was just a poor call.

 

[sufandu]

I was good with taking the hold. He was trying to put our foot on their throat. They hadn't done much to that point, the defense had them uncomfortable with a false start the snap before the hold and an interception on the prior possession. What I hated was the 3 man rush. I almost always hate that. It just gives a QB and WR too much time to find a hole in the secondary. You have to bring 4 or 5 and make them rush the throw for a short gain. I don't know if the call on D there is Dino's call or White's but that was a bad call. And this isn't hindsight for me. When we accepted the penalty I said out loud, "We better not come out in some prevent crap."

 

[DPCuse]

One other thing to consider. If you decline the penalty and force a 4th and 13, WF may have elected to go for it instead of kicking the long FG. They converted on 3rd and 23, who says they wouldn’t have converted on 4th and 13?

 

[Crusty]

One other thing to consider. If you decline the penalty and force a 4th and 13, WF may have elected to go for it instead of kicking the long FG. They converted on 3rd and 23, who says they wouldn’t have converted on 4th and 13?

Highly improbable.

 

[DPCuse]

Highly improbable.

So is converting on 3rd and 23 but it happened.

 

[PhatOrange]

This one was a tough one for me. You don’t ever like to give teams extra possessions. I understand his reasoning but I always like to get a team to fourth down, I would’ve declined the penalty and made them try a long field goal.

I don’t think we brought any pressure either we didn’t really help ourselves with the defensive call.