Holding on Wake but Dino Declines?!

[NineOneSeven]

This is exactly right.

Absurd of Dino to double down.

And also, who cares if a kicker is booming in pregame? That's insane.

Edited to add: And then to make the defensive play call to sit back? It bottles the mind.

I bet Smyzt was booming them in pregame too.

 

[007]

This is exactly right.

Absurd of Dino to double down.

And also, who cares if a kicker is booming in pregame? That's insane.

Edited to add: And then to make the defensive play call to sit back? It bottles the mind.

playing off to the sticks made a really poor decision even worse. it reinforced the misguided notion that you were defending a 3rd-23 probability.

 

[IthacaMatt]

It wasn't just the 1st down that could have hurt us there. Any play over 10 yards gets them closer for the FG.

While this is a legitimate point, they would still need to make 10-15 yards. That's not a given. How many sacks did we have in that game?

Further, the Kicker had literally never made a kick in game from 51 yards. Never.

This is a red herring. The kid is the all-time leader in NCAA history in FG percentage at over 90 % with more than 50 career attempts. His career long was only 3 yards shorter. It's not like he was crap outside of 35 yards. You're talking 3 yards, and a kid who is incredibly accurate. Not the obvious choice you make it out to be.

It was a horrendous call and takes some real mental gymnastics to say it was sound.

A judgment call that went against us. Not even among his worst 5 calls of the game, honestly. You have oversold your point; you've said it about 4 times now in this thread.

We easily could have still won this game if only Andre made his FG. People say "well, it was 45 yards ...".

Newsflash - they were both kicking indoors in climate controlled conditions. They are each of their respective school's best kickers in team history. Both should be expected to make a 45-50 yard attempt at least 80% of the time.

 

[NineOneSeven]

While this is a legitimate point, they would still need to make 10-15 yards. That's not a given. How many sacks did we have in that game?



This is a red herring. The kid is the all-time leader in NCAA history in FG percentage at over 90 % with more than 50 career attempts. His career long was only 3 yards shorter. It's not like he was crap outside of 35 yards. You're talking 3 yards, and a kid who is incredibly accurate. Not the obvious choice you make it out to be.


A judgment call that went against us. Not even among his worst 5 calls of the game, honestly. You have oversold your point; you've said it about 4 times now in this thread.

It can’t be oversold though. Legitimately played a huge role in losing this game. That’s not over exaggerating either.

 

[BillSU]

I like that Dino wants to take chances but his choices are questionable. That being said, I'm strongly in favor of keeping him. You have to be pragmatic, and it's hard to imagine us not going through ANOTHER coaching change without a transition period that hurts recruiting.

I am also in favor of keeping Dino. If you look at the stats you will see we had 2, two, count 'em sacks. Their offensive line proved time after time they were better than our defensive line, we couldn't get to Hartman which is why he was able to throw at will. We have to get better players to get after the QB. You can't fire Dino and get better recruits.
Also, without Servais out tonight we were not opening holes for Tucker we would have with him.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I'd think that accepting a penalty that takes a team out of FG range is better than letting them kick the FG. 31 out of 32 NFL coaches would have made the same call.

What do I know?

I always thought that if you had a man on 2nd base, you bunted him over to 3rd. But all the analytics people tell me that I'm wrong. You have a better chance of scoring from 2nd with 0 outs than you do of scoring from 3rd with 1 out.

You can't predict baseball. Or football.

 

[Halfmooncuse]

I like that Dino wants to take chances but his choices are questionable. That being said, I'm strongly in favor of keeping him. You have to be pragmatic, and it's hard to imagine us not going through ANOTHER coaching change without a transition period that hurts recruiting.

Nah he’s doing that all by himself

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Honestly it was a great call if it worked out. Our D was playing great and honestly you expect a draw play or a low percentage conversion there and it is a high likelihood they come away with zero in a close game. It didn't work out. Luck hasn't been on our side in some of our gambles this year but it is what it is.

They take 40 more seconds off the clock and pin us deep if it works out. That’s not a great outcome. We aren’t a pass first team.

They miss and we get good field possession and plenty of time to run the ball. They hit it and we get a kick return and enough time to run the ball as again we aren’t a pass first team.

 

[Halfmooncuse]

WF number 5 and 9 could have caught anything thrown there way. They were pro receivers but….let’s give them another chance… and when we do the results we’re obvious.


obvious to all but the guy we give millions to

 

[wolfhound]

I'd think that accepting a penalty that takes a team out of FG range is better than letting them kick the FG. 31 out of 32 NFL coaches would have made the same call.

What do I know?

I always thought that if you had a man on 2nd base, you bunted him over to 3rd. But all the analytics people tell me that I'm wrong. You have a better chance of scoring from 2nd with 0 outs than you do of scoring from 3rd with 1 out.

You can't predict baseball. Or football.

I agree I think it was the correct call 3rd and 23 is a tough get. The defense call was sound. The execution by the cover man #7 Thompson was not.
He should have stepped up and made a play on the ball, instead he stepped back and allowed the catch in front of him.

 

[Chris02M]

I bet Smyzt was booming them in pregame too.

smyzt never booms them haha but he hardly tries any over 45 in practice

 

[IthacaMatt]

It can’t be oversold though. Legitimately played a huge role in losing this game. That’s not over exaggerating either.

No, it can be oversold, and HAS been oversold.

Wake's kicker has made 18-20 FGs from 40-49 yards for his entire career.

Did we lose the game because of that one play? Of course not.

We came from behind after that play, and the resulting TD, to take the lead.

And then we came from behind again to tie it at the end of regulation.

And then we went ahead in OT.

So, no, that one play didn't lose the game.

It was a gamble that was aggressive and didn't pay off.

 

[NineOneSeven]

No, it can be oversold, and HAS been oversold.

Wake's kicker has made 18-20 FGs from 40-49 yards for his entire career.

Did we lose the game because of that one play? Of course not.

We came from behind after that play, and the resulting TD, to take the lead.

And then we came from behind again to tie it at the end of regulation.

And then we went ahead in OT.

So, no, that one play didn't lose the game.

It was a gamble that was aggressive and didn't pay off.

We’ll agree to disagree. it was a huge sequence.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I think you take the penalty. You don’t want to give up any points. Unfortunately, the mistake was made by White when he put zero pressure on the quarterback. That’s not on Dino.

 

[samspann1]

He said in his presser kid was booming them from way further pre-game and we just had to stop them from getting 23 yards. Um, no guy, if they get 10 yards it’s a moot point. We rushed 3 and spied. We were basically saying we will give you anything underneath. Which probably would have gained 10 yards.

Just a poorly conceived risk/reward decision.

Re. booming kicks in pre-game:

 

[NineOneSeven]

Re. booming kicks in pre-game:

Lmao

 

[IthacaMatt]

We’ll agree to disagree. it was a huge sequence.

We were ahead twice after that. It was also a huge sequence when Andre missed that FG.

That one play would have won the game.

Or if they had made the 2 point conversion - or simply kicked the extra point - on the one in the third quarter!

Never mind the one at the end of regulation!

Or how about the fluke fumble recovery along the sideline by Wake?

There were many points subsequent to that play that could have won or lost the game. MANY.

 

[Orangello]

Re. booming kicks in pre-game:

I just invested in this big ship called the Titanic. Looking forward to healthy returns

 

[NineOneSeven]

We were ahead twice after that. It was also a huge sequence when Andre missed that FG.

That one play would have won the game.

Or if they had made the 2 point conversion - or simply kicked the extra point - on the one in the third quarter!

Never mind the one at the end of regulation!

Or how about the fluke fumble recovery along the sideline by Wake?

There were many points subsequent to that play that could have won or lost the game. MANY.

All true, except Andre making the FG wouldn’t have won the game. You’re still losing if wake scores a touchdown. Anyway…All of what you said still doesnt change the fact that end of half sequence was a massive one.

 

[IthacaMatt]

All true. Doesn’t change the fact that end of half sequence was a massive one.

So were every one of those other plays.

 

[NineOneSeven]

So were every one of those other plays.

Yes

 

[IthacaMatt]

Re. booming kicks in pre-game:

Good call, Chris. It's a bit different against live competition.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

So were every one of those other plays.

Right, but there are things that happened, and there are decisions.

Bad decisions are bad.

 

[TampaLaker]

Did anyone see the end of the PSU/Iowa game (switched over after the end of OT, I just could not take any post-game discussions)? Literally the same choice was faced by Iowa when they were down 20-16 with 7 1/2 minutes to go in the 4th quarter. Iowa stopped PSU on 3rd down around the 25, but PSU was called for holding. Ferentz took the penalty moving PSU back so that Iowa would have a shorter field to go for the victory. Now PSU was not moving the ball really well and had their second string QB playing, but same conditions were in place. If PSU gained more than 10 yards, there would not have been any benefit gained by Iowa. So same issue, same choice, but Iowa stopped PSU, different result which was widely praised.

I have to say that I have no problem with Dino's decision last week to go for it on 4th & 2 or his decision to take the penalty this week. In both cases, I disliked the play that SU chose on the next play.

 

[Scooch]

After the game, DB also said that he would make the same decision 10/10 times because the odds of making 3rd and 23 were so stacked against the offense. One of the problems with that line of reasoning is that he was assessing the wrong probability. If you decline the penalty, they have to kick a 50-51 yard FG on 4th down. If you take the 10-yard penalty, you are actually betting that you can hold them to less than 10 yards to make the 4th down kick even longer.

Accepting the penalty gave WF a 2nd chance at making the FG more manageable, let alone taking on the additional risk that they might score on the extra play or, gulp, make the 1st down.

Did he really say that, about converting?! Uggggh, that’s so colossally misreading the stakes of the situation. Although now it makes sense why we played that soft D, they were really just trying to prevent a conversion. Ugh.