Hope this is JBs last year

[Townie72]

5 years? I think Townie is full prepared to go into Weekend at Bernie's mode when the time comes (not to be too dark)

I’ve lived through the rise and fall of the SU football program twice (after the sixties and the nineties) and the fall of the SU lacrosse program from the pinnacle of the game.

I’ll be fine and will be philosophical about things. Not so those on here that desperately cling to the BB program and are so frustrated and vitriolic when things don’t go well.

After every loss the usual suspects are on here angry and frustrated assigning blame to everything and everyone. JB is just the most convenient target.

 

[Townie72]

But when systems work, people emulate it, like the spread offense in college football.

When you play zone 100% of the time, you have to recruit players with Gumby-esque bodies for it, and that often comes at the expense of genuine basketball fundamentals.

I want to move towards the Villanova model of position-less basketball, and 4 out of 5 guys on the court at all times need to be able to legitimately shoot the basketball from outside.

And when you are coach, you can put that system in.

Nobody else commits to 100% zone because it’s such a gamble and so hard to do.

That’s the barrier to entry that JB counts on.

 

[MSOrange]

I’ve lived through the rise and fall of the SU football program twice (after the sixties and the nineties) and the fall of the SU lacrosse program from the pinnacle of the game.

I’ll be fine and will be philosophical about things. Not so those on here that desperately cling to the BB program and are so frustrated and vitriolic when things don’t go well.

After every loss the usual suspects are on here angry and frustrated assigning blame to everything and everyone. JB is just the most convenient target.

You're a model to us all. I wish everyone was as smart as you....

 

[Townie72]

You're a model to us all. I wish everyone was as smart as you...

I’m not so smart. But I have learned that Rumplestiltskin-like anger isn’t a good look.

 

[cuseguy]

I meant Townie72 the poster not the locals who are the heart and soul of the program who support the team.
Townie72 basically posts literally like JB can do wrong and he is the program. We will suck for a long time just because JB won’t be the coach type of stuff.
I don’t want JB fired. He deserves the respect of him “calling” the shot.
The problem is he won’t. I don’t believe he will retire when Buddy graduates.
I just don’t believe it now. If he was he would have a big on this roster developing for one last run.
JBA and Edwards are Projects.

The roster management is just so hard to understand.

Dwindling crowds ($$$) and alumni support will ultimately determine JB’s decision.

 

[Eric15]

I’m not so smart. But I have learned that Rumplestiltskin-like anger isn’t a good look.

I literally LOLed at "Rumplestiltskin-like." I love you, Townie.

 

[orangecuse]

Did you know that Juli was working with the City of Syracuse to plan a "Jim Boeheim Day"? They were going to have a huge ceremony on the steps of City Hall, and the Mayor and County Exec were going to issue joint proclamations honoring JB, etc...

They were targeting Sept or Oct of 2017 for this to happen. Clearly Juli was unaware that Jim wasn't retiring.

Well there you go. Cuz no wife in the history of the world has ever been "unaware" of what their spouse's inner most intentions, behavior, etc. have been at all times, especially men of wealth & power. Okay.

On an aside, it would be epic to see one of those skits (like the Hitler one when Syracuse beat Clemson in football a couple of years ago) about how exactly JB's retirement went down after he was "advised" by his superiors of the plan in which he had no true say at the time. Jack Nicholson (from the "Few Good Men" courtroom scene) would make for a perfect JB.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

After Hop had already left, and Wildhack asked JB if he was willing to stick around a few more years.

The other options were Red, GMac, or hiring a new staff while we were still under sanctions for one more year.

Why would those be the options? That makes no sense. We didn’t need an interim HC. Wildhack could have started his search early 2018 and hired in April. So when JB retires in April of 202x we are forced to hire Autry or GMac? Use some logic.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Townie72 let me ask the question slightly differently. At what point do you say enough enough? Let’s say we’re .500 for the next three years without an NCAA bid. Is that enough? What if JB asks for another 5 years? Just trying to gauge you edge

.500? I’ll sign up for that now. We aren’t sniffing .500 this year or next.

 

[crzdsufan]

I have been a JB fan since his start and following the team since 79. I state this to show the road I have traveled, including defending JB through some tough periods in the past. That said I have been guarded recently in any discussion on JB and this staff, till now. It started when the entire coaching staff was made up of guards. Not that they themselves are a problem but how do you recruit a center, or even "true" power forwards when no one on the staff played the position/s. Much like our QB Coach in football. How does a team recruit a QB when the QB Coach never played the position at any level.
This has resulted in the last nearly decade of not having a true big man and thus a huge problem with this team. Additionally the talent overall we are recruiting has suffered to the point we are on the edge of having our second straight recruiting class without a top 100 player. This is the ACC and without talent I don't care how good you rcoaching is, you will be worn down and end up in th eposition we are in.
The days of playing 6/7 players is done. The talent across the ACC is to great and this can be magnified by the games in the last couple years we have lost in the second half of second halves. The zone can be great BUT to ONLY play the zone no longer works and to not adapt to this becomes a BIGGER problem. That is on JB. To also run the zone with the 3 point line extended, with players that aren't quick enough to react and get long rebounds is anothe; especially without any true rebounder in a number of years.
I hate to say this but I truly hope JB retires at the end of the year. It will be the most difficult decision he has to make but I hope his love for Syracuse and obvious frustrations allow him to step away before, like Denny Crum at Louisville, he is forced away after giving the Syracuse community so many great seasons/memories. No one likes to see successful careers be shunned on but JB after this season, without an announcement he is stepping away will in my eyes result in exactly that. that will be a shame, and one he bestowed on himself should it happen.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I’ve lived through the rise and fall of the SU football program twice (after the sixties and the nineties) and the fall of the SU lacrosse program from the pinnacle of the game.

I’ll be fine and will be philosophical about things. Not so those on here that desperately cling to the BB program and are so frustrated and vitriolic when things don’t go well.

After every loss the usual suspects are on here angry and frustrated assigning blame to everything and everyone. JB is just the most convenient target.

Then you should know Ben stayed on too long and our winning percentage was slightly better after he left. Had we hired a HC earlier maybe the gap between 1967 and 1987 isn’t as large.

Also football is a different animal. One player can turn you program around in BBall.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Why would those be the options? That makes no sense. We didn’t need an interim HC. Wildhack could have started his search early 2018 and hired in April. So when JB retires in April of 202x we are forced to hire Autry or GMac? Use some logic.

Wasn't that "Option #3"?

• Promote Autry
• Promote GMac
• Hire a new HC

Wildhack would have had a full year to conduct a search for a new coach before April 1, 2018. But it doesn't change the fact that the new coach would be taking over a program still under NCAA sanctions for one more year (The scholarship reductions didn't expire until after the 2018-19 season). The new coach gets stuck cleaning up someone else's mess.

 

[Scooch]

Wrong, Alsacs.

No matter how many times I post the same thing, you seem incapable of understanding the central points.

1. In the short term, SU has a better chance of winning games with JB than it would with any other coach. It’s his system, his players, his assistants and he is the expert. Many of the best college coaches consider him one of the geniuses of the game.

2. Anyone we bring in to replace him —- from the outside —- faces a huge task inserting a new system, getting assistants and recruiting players to that system. It’ll take several years. Results in the intermediate term will reflect that disruption.

3. Hiring a coach from the outside is a huge crapshoot that is as likely to fail as it is to succeed. The idea that we’ll be able to “select” the best coach from among P5s and best mid-majors is what I call “SU Fan Fantasy” syndrome. What currently successful coach would bet their future on unseating the top teams in the ACC? JB said as much when he commented on the move to the ACC from a basketball perspective.

4. Just as the landscape of Lacrosse has changed because of the growth of the game, so has that of college basketball. There’s more parity than there ever was. Teams like Texas Tech are now stocked with good players and that was unthinkable not so many years ago. Lots of posters on here think it’s still 1985.

5. Promoting a current assistant minimizes disruption, but the learning curve will be steep.

6. Money and resources have little to do with this. As I pointed out, the Redskins are one of the most profitable NFL franchises and have been for many years. Snyder has lost on the field, but has laughed all the way to the bank. But they have just appointed their 9th coach under Snyder in search of a winner.

We’ll see what happens to Dome crowds when we settle into being another middle of the pack ACC team.

Not to be harsh, but what is your point?

1. Duh.

2. Sure. May not take "several years", but we'll see soon enough.

3. Yup, every change is fraught with risk. No one grounded in reality is arguing that.

4. Yup. However, no one thinks it's still 1985. Come on.

5. Maybe.

6. Wrong. College and pros are radically different, and your continued reference to the Redskins is weird.


Again, most people understand that there are no guarantees of success when JB leaves. That you are painting everyone with a broad brush, as if 100% of fans are saying "Replace him tonight and we'll make the Final Four next year!" is weird.

 

[Alsacs]

Wasn't that "Option #3"?

• Promote Autry
• Promote GMac
• Hire a new HC

Wildhack would have had a full year to conduct a search for a new coach before April 1, 2018. But it doesn't change the fact that the new coach would be taking over a program still under NCAA sanctions for one more year (The scholarship reductions didn't expire until after the 2018-19 season). The new coach gets stuck cleaning up someone else's mess.

The sanctions just affect leverage for negotiations. The threat of them helped Chris Mack get a better contract from Louisville.

A good coach would know one year of 2 less scholarships isn’t a killer to taking a job they can win a NC at.

Wildhack after Hopkins left chose to commit to JB. It was his call.

The problem is we replaced Hop who was the only assistant that really was on JB’s level on the staff and replaced him with another follower.
I like Griffin for the record but his hiring wasn’t what we needed.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Wasn't that "Option #3"?

• Promote Autry
• Promote GMac
• Hire a new HC

Wildhack would have had a full year to conduct a search for a new coach before April 1, 2018. But it doesn't change the fact that the new coach would be taking over a program still under NCAA sanctions for one more year (The scholarship reductions didn't expire until after the 2018-19 season). The new coach gets stuck cleaning up someone else's mess.

Someone else’s mess? You mean like Chris Mack did?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Wildhack after Hopkins left chose to commit to JB. It was his call.

Hindsight is always 20/20.

JB won't be here forever, and Wildhack will have to conduct a search sooner or later.

Right now, it looks like sooner might have been the better option.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The sanctions just affect leverage for negotiations. The threat of them helped Chris Mack get a better contract from Louisville.

A good coach would know one year of 2 less scholarships isn’t a killer to taking a job they can win a NC at.

Wildhack after Hopkins left chose to commit to JB. It was his call.

The problem is we replaced Hop who was the only assistant that really was on JB’s level on the staff and replaced him with another follower.
I like Griffin for the record but his hiring wasn’t what we needed.

Not only did Mack take the job, it was the same year as JBs planned retirement. Maybe we could have gotten Mack.

 

[Townie72]

I have been a JB fan since his start and following the team since 79. I state this to show the road I have traveled, including defending JB through some tough periods in the past. That said I have been guarded recently in any discussion on JB and this staff, till now. It started when the entire coaching staff was made up of guards. Not that they themselves are a problem but how do you recruit a center, or even "true" power forwards when no one on the staff played the position/s. Much like our QB Coach in football. How does a team recruit a QB when the QB Coach never played the position at any level.
This has resulted in the last nearly decade of not having a true big man and thus a huge problem with this team. Additionally the talent overall we are recruiting has suffered to the point we are on the edge of having our second straight recruiting class without a top 100 player. This is the ACC and without talent I don't care how good you rcoaching is, you will be worn down and end up in th eposition we are in.
The days of playing 6/7 players is done. The talent across the ACC is to great and this can be magnified by the games in the last couple years we have lost in the second half of second halves. The zone can be great BUT to ONLY play the zone no longer works and to not adapt to this becomes a BIGGER problem. That is on JB. To also run the zone with the 3 point line extended, with players that aren't quick enough to react and get long rebounds is anothe; especially without any true rebounder in a number of years.
I hate to say this but I truly hope JB retires at the end of the year. It will be the most difficult decision he has to make but I hope his love for Syracuse and obvious frustrations allow him to step away before, like Denny Crum at Louisville, he is forced away after giving the Syracuse community so many great seasons/memories. No one likes to see successful careers be shunned on but JB after this season, without an announcement he is stepping away will in my eyes result in exactly that. that will be a shame, and one he bestowed on himself should it happen.

So “the zone no longer works”?

Bold statement. You probably have some statistics that prove your point. Please share.

What I understand is that SU is among the leaders in many defensive categories including 3 pt. Defense.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Hindsight is always 20/20.

JB won't be here forever, and Wildhack will have to conduct a search sooner or later.

Right now, it looks like sooner might have been the better option.

Some of us saw today back then and said so. We were shouted down by the masses. But, nonetheless, JW better start righting this ship (in other words, I’d like him to do his damn job).

 

[MSOrange]

So “the zone no longer works”?

Bold statement. You probably have some statistics that prove your point. Please share.

What I understand is that SU is among the leaders in many defensive categories including 3 pt. Defense.

No we're 101st in the nation in 3 point percentage defense.

 

[NorSyr66]

JB got outcoached tonight. No two ways about it. VT coach adjusted at half. JB didn't.

I'm sure he'll take his fair share of the blame in his presser.

Hard to adjust with 6 players and one fouls out.

 

[Ghost]

No we're 101st in the nation in 3 point percentage defense.

But you still got a 1st in there...….so he wins. Again. Ingenious diabolical b***ard.

 

[alphaorange]

I have much respect for JB. He is certainly among the top coaches of all time. That being said, the best coaches adapt to changes and in the last 6-7 years, JB has not appeared to be willing to make changes as the game has drastically changed. You can add 6 or 7 feet to the shooting range of most perimeter players, which now makes the space defenders in a zone must cover much greater. With players trying to chase much further out, there is more open room inside to get a shot off before the zone can collapse on the offense. While I think the zone can work in spurts, no longer are most teams baffled by it for entire games. It also appears (certainly) that JB cannot recruit like he did once and we also need to remember that when we were recruiting well, it wasn't JB that was the guy bring in the players most of the time. I would never be comfortable pushing him out but I do wish he would decide it is time. It is simply not fair to continue because you want to coach your son (if that is the reason). Buddy is a very good shooter with not a lot else to offer to a P5 team in a great conference. There are tons of guys that can shoot these days. Sad days, indeed.

 

[Townie72]

Dwindling crowds ($$$) and alumni support will ultimately determine JB’s decision.

You think alumni support is tied significantly to the success of the basketball program?

Read the Alumni mag in which the University makes its appeal for said “alumni support”. You'll see scant mention of athletics as a reason for contributing. It’s all about the great things the University is doing in the classroom and in the world.

People on here are often victims of myths they carry around with them.

It’s sort of like the “Major Contributors” myth. These are the unnamed people that are going to force the University to do what it doesn’t want to do. Our posters reason, “ We must have them.”

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Holy hell. Please pin this thread for the next 100 years so people can see how stupid they look.

It takes 1 player to change everything.

We have had exactly one of those “1 player” types in our history. And it took more than just him. What is the likelihood of getting another, with an old HC, who now doesn’t like to travel to recruit, has a scratched-out expiration date, plays only a non-NBA defense, goes ballistic at players with every minor ‘error’ and after every bucket scored against the team, can only get fringe top-100 players to accompany you, and has incumbent youth at every position?