Hope this is JBs last year

[Alsacs]

I’ll agree to disagree


This is the million dollar question.
From my perspective, JW screwed up the entire Hop situation. When he came on board, it was his responsibility to ensure that the agreement made before his arrival was implemented and managed properly.

Some might say that Hop simply had a change of heart and didn’t want to be the one to ‘force his mentor out’. I think Mike did feel that way and that’s why he took the Washington job. My point is that it NEVER should of gotten to that.

If I were JW, I would of sat JB down on day one and made sure he was on board with the transition, then worked with both Hop and JB to make sure it happened. I would of told JB that this was in the best interest of the program and he should not send any messages about extending.

My strong suspicion is that this never happened. JW never gave Hop the vote of confidence needed to allow him to get past his fear of ‘forcing his mentor out’.

There may be more to this. But certainly JBs desire to coach Buddy and JW’s management (or lack of) played into it too.

Where we are right now, is not in the best interest of the program. That’s for sure.

We the fans are partially responsible.
I also think Wildhack left basketball alone as he trusts and is friendly with Boeheim for a long time prebecoming AD.
I believe the NCAA screwing Boeheim changed his mind. He was close to retiring in 2011. I have posted the article plenty of times.
After we beat St. John’s in the 2011 BET QFs he said retirement is really close. He could see it coming.
He was close to ready back then. The NCAA screwed with him and he did what I would do which is fight back at people who I perceive as screwing with me unjustly.

The fans which we are all part of, messed with Hop for he performed as JB’s caretaker replacement in 2016. That is on everyone who complained. I probably did I don’t care to look it up but I am sure I was frustrated as were a lot of Syracuse fans for the team performed in those 9 games.

Hopkins didn’t realize the fanbase frustration and he saw his mentor didn’t want to retire so he found a good resolution for all. The problem was JB didn’t replace Hop’s recruiting.
The staff we have now just needs to be better and it’s not going to be sadly. JB is dug in his ways.

It is so damn frustrating and then you have the Townies of the world in the fanbase who don’t care what the HC does.

 

[cuseguy]

Holy hell. Please pin this thread for the next 100 years so people can see how stupid they look.

It takes 1 player to change everything.

That type of player isn’t coming next year.

 

[Caboose]

We the fans are partially responsible.
I also think Wildhack left basketball alone as he trusts and is friendly with Boeheim for a long time prebecoming AD.
I believe the NCAA screwing Boeheim changed his mind. He was close to retiring in 2011. I have posted the article plenty of times.
After we beat St. John’s in the 2011 BET QFs he said retirement is really close. He could see it coming.
He was close to ready back then. The NCAA screwed with him and he did what I would do which is fight back at people who I perceive as screwing with me unjustly.

The fans which we are all part of, messed with Hop for he performed as JB’s caretaker replacement in 2016. That is on everyone who complained. I probably did I don’t care to look it up but I am sure I was frustrated as were a lot of Syracuse fans for the team performed in those 9 games.

Hopkins didn’t realize the fanbase frustration and he saw his mentor didn’t want to retire so he found a good resolution for all. The problem was JB didn’t replace Hop’s recruiting.
The staff we have now just needs to be better and it’s not going to be sadly. JB is dug in his ways.

It is so damn frustrating and then you have the Townies of the world in the fanbase who don’t care what the HC does.

Great post. I'm a towny but I can tell you I sure as h*ll don't think like the homers among them. I want my beloved team to WIN WIN WIN, that's all I care about no matter who is the coach and no matter WHO NEEDS TO BE FIRED or forced into retirement.

 

[AZOrange]

You comparing the SU AD to the worst professional franchise in American sports ?

No he said the Redskins not the Knicks

 

[AZOrange]

Townie72 let me ask the question slightly differently. At what point do you say enough enough? Let’s say we’re .500 for the next three years without an NCAA bid. Is that enough? What if JB asks for another 5 years? Just trying to gauge you edge

 

[OttoMets]

Townie's love of JB is very similar to the kids in The Sandlot loving Babe Ruth. It's like irrational demigod status.

I thought you said the great...Bambi.

That wimpy deer?!

 

[Alsacs]

Great post. I'm a towny but I can tell you I sure as h*ll don't think like the homers among them. I want my beloved team to WIN WIN WIN, that's all I care about no matter who is the coach and no matter WHO NEEDS TO BE FIRED or forced into retirement.

I meant Townie72 the poster not the locals who are the heart and soul of the program who support the team.
Townie72 basically posts literally like JB can do wrong and he is the program. We will suck for a long time just because JB won’t be the coach type of stuff.
I don’t want JB fired. He deserves the respect of him “calling” the shot.
The problem is he won’t. I don’t believe he will retire when Buddy graduates.
I just don’t believe it now. If he was he would have a big on this roster developing for one last run.
JBA and Edwards are Projects.

The roster management is just so hard to understand.

 

[SkyTopBus44]

The final way you know when a long time excellent coach is done, when he is over the hill, is when the very thing that best defines his successes becomes central to his failures.

The ego and never-say-die drive that made the coach great are not tempered by realistic assessment of the limitations of advancing age, they become tragic flaws.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Pretty sure Townie thinks Syracuse is located in Siberia.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Townie72 let me ask the question slightly differently. At what point do you say enough enough? Let’s say we’re .500 for the next three years without an NCAA bid. Is that enough? What if JB asks for another 5 years? Just trying to gauge you edge

Townie72

 

[Caboose]

I meant Townie72 the poster not the locals who are the heart and soul of the program who support the team.
Townie72 basically posts literally like JB can do wrong and he is the program. We will suck for a long time just because JB won’t be the coach type of stuff.
I don’t want JB fired. He deserves the respect of him “calling” the shot.
The problem is he won’t. I don’t believe he will retire when Buddy graduates.
I just don’t believe it now. If he was he would have a big on this roster developing for one last run.
JBA and Edwards are Projects.

The roster management is just so hard to understand.

I agree to a certain extent but I think we're at a point now where Wildhack has to consider the "shareholders" and not Papa Jim (akin to Papa John's when they removed him). The program and the "shareholders" are suffering and JB needs to see this and allow Wildhack to do what he has to do. This is absurd at this point if it continues to play out the way it is.

 

[Eric15]

Townie72 let me ask the question slightly differently. At what point do you say enough enough? Let’s say we’re .500 for the next three years without an NCAA bid. Is that enough? What if JB asks for another 5 years? Just trying to gauge you edge

"We haven't been below .500 since 1969. You should take those three hypothetical .500 seasons like a man, and stop being so entitled and spoiled. JB can stay until he's 117 if he wants to, because hiring anyone else would be the equivalent of letting the Daniel Baldwin slide over 10 feet and coach the team."

 

[Fly Rodder]

is when the very thing that best defines his successes becomes central to his failures.

I mean, he says that one of the reasons the zone can work as well as it can is because college players can't shoot the three well enough - so his offense changed from ISO rock fights to ... college players shooting a bunch of threes.

I love the zone when it has the personnel, but it's been a lot of compromises and square pegs in round holes over the last 5-6 seasons to a) either get the bodies needed for the defense, but were lacking on offense or b) players who could play offense, but weren't great fits for the zone, and c) playing guys out of position as band-aids.

 

[MSOrange]

Townie72 let me ask the question slightly differently. At what point do you say enough enough? Let’s say we’re .500 for the next three years without an NCAA bid. Is that enough? What if JB asks for another 5 years? Just trying to gauge you edge

5 years? I think Townie is full prepared to go into Weekend at Bernie's mode when the time comes (not to be too dark)

 

[Townie72]

I meant Townie72 the poster not the locals who are the heart and soul of the program who support the team.
Townie72 basically posts literally like JB can do wrong and he is the program. We will suck for a long time just because JB won’t be the coach type of stuff.
I don’t want JB fired. He deserves the respect of him “calling” the shot.
The problem is he won’t. I don’t believe he will retire when Buddy graduates.
I just don’t believe it now. If he was he would have a big on this roster developing for one last run.
JBA and Edwards are Projects.

The roster management is just so hard to understand.

Wrong, Alsacs.

No matter how many times I post the same thing, you seem incapable of understanding the central points.

1. In the short term, SU has a better chance of winning games with JB than it would with any other coach. It’s his system, his players, his assistants and he is the expert. Many of the best college coaches consider him one of the geniuses of the game.

2. Anyone we bring in to replace him —- from the outside —- faces a huge task inserting a new system, getting assistants and recruiting players to that system. It’ll take several years. Results in the intermediate term will reflect that disruption.

3. Hiring a coach from the outside is a huge crapshoot that is as likely to fail as it is to succeed. The idea that we’ll be able to “select” the best coach from among P5s and best mid-majors is what I call “SU Fan Fantasy” syndrome. What currently successful coach would bet their future on unseating the top teams in the ACC? JB said as much when he commented on the move to the ACC from a basketball perspective.

4. Just as the landscape of Lacrosse has changed because of the growth of the game, so has that of college basketball. There’s more parity than there ever was. Teams like Texas Tech are now stocked with good players and that was unthinkable not so many years ago. Lots of posters on here think it’s still 1985.

5. Promoting a current assistant minimizes disruption, but the learning curve will be steep.

6. Money and resources have little to do with this. As I pointed out, the Redskins are one of the most profitable NFL franchises and have been for many years. Snyder has lost on the field, but has laughed all the way to the bank. But they have just appointed their 9th coach under Snyder in search of a winner.

We’ll see what happens to Dome crowds when we settle into being another middle of the pack ACC team.

 

[chugg21]

Wrong, Alsacs.

No matter how many times I post the same thing, you seem incapable of understanding the central points.

1. In the short term, SU has a better chance of winning games with JB than it would with any other coach. It’s his system, his players, his assistants and he is the expert. Many of the best college coaches consider him one of the geniuses of the game.

2. Anyone we bring in to replace him —- from the outside —- faces a huge task inserting a new system, getting assistants and recruiting players to that system. It’ll take several years. Results in the intermediate term will reflect that disruption.

3. Hiring a coach from the outside is a huge crapshoot that is as likely to fail as it is to succeed. The idea that we’ll be able to “select” the best coach from among P5s and best mid-majors is what I call “SU Fan Fantasy” syndrome. What currently successful coach would bet their future on unseating the top teams in the ACC? JB said as much when he commented on the move to the ACC from a basketball perspective.

4. Just as the landscape of Lacrosse has changed because of the growth of the game, so has that of college basketball. There’s more parity than there ever was. Teams like Texas Tech are now stocked with good players and that was unthinkable not so many years ago. Lots of posters on here think it’s still 1985.

5. Promoting a current assistant minimizes disruption, but the learning curve will be steep.

6. Money and resources have little to do with this. As I pointed out, the Redskins are one of the most profitable NFL franchises and have been for many years. Snyder has lost on the field, but has laughed all the way to the bank. But they have just appointed their 9th coach under Snyder in search of a winner.

We’ll see what happens to Dome crowds when we settle into being another middle of the pack ACC team.

You're off on point 6. Money and resources are a humongous difference in college sports. Having the income and resources to be able to pay a coach $4-5m/year if necessary is a significant advantage over 95% of the 300+ D1 bball teams. Snyder isn't able to make his squad better by outbidding the majority of other teams by 40% as they are all on a fairly even playing field.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Wrong, Alsacs.

No matter how many times I post the same thing, you seem incapable of understanding the central points.

1. In the short term, SU has a better chance of winning games with JB than it would with any other coach. It’s his system, his players, his assistants and he is the expert. Many of the best college coaches consider him one of the geniuses of the game.

2. Anyone we bring in to replace him —- from the outside —- faces a huge task inserting a new system, getting assistants and recruiting players to that system. It’ll take several years. Results in the intermediate term will reflect that disruption.

3. Hiring a coach from the outside is a huge crapshoot that is as likely to fail as it is to succeed. The idea that we’ll be able to “select” the best coach from among P5s and best mid-majors is what I call “SU Fan Fantasy” syndrome. What currently successful coach would bet their future on unseating the top teams in the ACC? JB said as much when he commented on the move to the ACC from a basketball perspective.

4. Just as the landscape of Lacrosse has changed because of the growth of the game, so has that of college basketball. There’s more parity than there ever was. Teams like Texas Tech are now stocked with good players and that was unthinkable not so many years ago. Lots of posters on here think it’s still 1985.

5. Promoting a current assistant minimizes disruption, but the learning curve will be steep.

6. Money and resources have little to do with this. As I pointed out, the Redskins are one of the most profitable NFL franchises and have been for many years. Snyder has lost on the field, but has laughed all the way to the bank. But they have just appointed their 9th coach under Snyder in search of a winner.

We’ll see what happens to Dome crowds when we settle into being another middle of the pack ACC team.

Oh good lord we have been a middle of the pack ACC team since 2015. We had about 12K there last night and 19K for a game this past SATURDAY!

And if you think Beard is staying at Texas Tech for 20 years you are out of your mind.

 

[Bayside44]

Wrong, Alsacs.

No matter how many times I post the same thing, you seem incapable of understanding the central points.

1. In the short term, SU has a better chance of winning games with JB than it would with any other coach. It’s his system, his players, his assistants and he is the expert. Many of the best college coaches consider him one of the geniuses of the game.

2. Anyone we bring in to replace him —- from the outside —- faces a huge task inserting a new system, getting assistants and recruiting players to that system. It’ll take several years. Results in the intermediate term will reflect that disruption.

3. Hiring a coach from the outside is a huge crapshoot that is as likely to fail as it is to succeed. The idea that we’ll be able to “select” the best coach from among P5s and best mid-majors is what I call “SU Fan Fantasy” syndrome. What currently successful coach would bet their future on unseating the top teams in the ACC? JB said as much when he commented on the move to the ACC from a basketball perspective.

4. Just as the landscape of Lacrosse has changed because of the growth of the game, so has that of college basketball. There’s more parity than there ever was. Teams like Texas Tech are now stocked with good players and that was unthinkable not so many years ago. Lots of posters on here think it’s still 1985.

5. Promoting a current assistant minimizes disruption, but the learning curve will be steep.

6. Money and resources have little to do with this. As I pointed out, the Redskins are one of the most profitable NFL franchises and have been for many years. Snyder has lost on the field, but has laughed all the way to the bank. But they have just appointed their 9th coach under Snyder in search of a winner.

We’ll see what happens to Dome crowds when we settle into being another middle of the pack ACC team.

A lot of your points would've been solved with the Hopkins succession plan. Since that is no longer and not worth re-hashing...

Agree on #4.

On #6, every NFL team makes money. Snyder's facilities out in the sticks is probably around 4 or 5 in the region after some of these high school powers. The Chancellor and AD cannot meddle with players and such like he does. And be supreme horrible human beings as well like he is.

We are seeing the crowds...

 

[Ghost]

Holy hell. Please pin this thread for the next 100 years so people can see how stupid they look.

It takes 1 player to change everything.

I completely understand this rationale. Truly.

Having lived and gone to school in B10 country for years...…..this is exactly what Iowa, Illinois fans say every year. Probably BC fans, and maybe North Florida fans as well.

One player away from dominance! Everything can change if Harrison Barnes just stays home!

Once these kids are Seniors - watch out! It's not as simple as it sounds or all those predictions, for all of those years, at some point would have panned out for all those schools. I don't think next-Melo is arriving next year. Otherwise, we're hoping a Senior laden team with some skinny centers or hulking power forward type can be competitive...which is pretty much the gameplan for every scrappy mid-major ever. Which is where we sort of are.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Many of the best college coaches consider him one of the geniuses of the game.

Which is why so many have emulated his 100% zone defense philosophy because there is zero way to be a consistent top-20 defense year after year by playing mostly man-to-man.

 

[Townie72]

Townie72 let me ask the question slightly differently. At what point do you say enough enough? Let’s say we’re .500 for the next three years without an NCAA bid. Is that enough? What if JB asks for another 5 years? Just trying to gauge you edge

First of all we all know JB is going to retire at some point in time.

The question becomes at what point does it become obvious to the SU powers that there’s a better alternative. (Keeping in mind they have to do this with with extreme delicacy.)

Now the SU people at senior levels are not inflicted with “SU Fan Fantasy Syndrome” in which some of the fans seem to have convinced themselves that whoever we get is bound to be better than JB is at this point in his career.

They know that bringing in a new coach is a huge gamble that they really do want to make unless forced into it. (The Georgetown people couldn’t get their top choices to replace JT3 to even interview and had to twist Ewing’s arm to get him to take the job.)

When I read posts from people on here that say JBs got to go because SUs performance is unacceptable and that SU can only upgrade by getting a new coach, I shake my head.

I get the idea that those who are most frustrated and blaming things on JB, will be the ones whining the loudest for the “good old days” when he’s gone.

 

[Townie72]

Many of the best college coaches consider him one of the geniuses of the game.

Which is why so many have emulated his 100% zone defense philosophy because there is zero way to be a consistent top-20 defense year after year by playing mostly man-to-man.

The genius of 100% zone is no one else does it. That’s why it works.

Being just like everyone else isn’t much of a strategy.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I wouldn't say that it is working ...

 

[Eric15]

The genius of 100% zone is no one else does it. That’s why it works.

Being just like everyone else isn’t much of a strategy.

But when systems work, people emulate it, like the spread offense in college football.

When you play zone 100% of the time, you have to recruit players with Gumby-esque bodies for it, and that often comes at the expense of genuine basketball fundamentals.

I want to move towards the Villanova model of position-less basketball, and 4 out of 5 guys on the court at all times need to be able to legitimately shoot the basketball from outside.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

But when systems work, people emulate it, like the spread offense in college football.

When you play zone 100% of the time, you have to recruit players with Gumby-esque bodies for it, and that often comes at the expense of genuine basketball fundamentals.

As we’ve seen.