How has JB done with MCW and Xmas?

[otto123]

To win a championship we need Triche and Waiters to be there normal selves. I like MCW a lot and think he will be a stud; but playing him 15mpg now is not gonna be the difference between us going to New Orleans or not. We need BT and Dion to get out of their slumps ASAP, and you can only work on it so much in practice.

"Developing" MCW so he's "ready" for next year isn't something we should be doing 2 weeks before the BET.

He should have been developed this season so he can help us win a championship this year

 

[ORANGEsPHK]

I think its great to have these discussions but I have a very difficult time thinking that Boeheim doesn't put the players into the game that he thinks will win the game - I just don't. I don't buy the conspiracy that JB doesn't play MCW or Rak due to some 'script' he adheres to. What I do buy is that he leads and mentors his team in practice, and based on how they perform he puts the best possible players on the court. The fact that more veteran players get more time doesn't baffle me. Say as much as you want about Southerland, but he plays D, gets some rebounds and is a three-point threat - who else should be out there in his stead? BT is also very sound on D. MCW and Rakeem have a lot to learn and teaching them at the expense of a team loss is not what playing these games are about. I agree with SouthCampus, we need DW and BT to regain their form for us to go far and they need to get it figure out more than MCW and Xmas getting more minutes at this point.

I just don't get the second guessing of JB's rotation or who he decides to play or not. He seems to have a quick hook for some players, but maybe they deserve that quick hook for mistakes that they work on during practice. Do I know this? Hell no, but I would guess that JB doesn't put players into his rotation so we can lose a game.

Just MO, humble or not.

 

[cap2nine]

the fallacy in this thought process is that young players get better in games. they don't get better in games, they get better in practice. start beating guys in practice, and you play. i remember two years ago people were banging on boeheim after the AO injury because he didn't "develop" the kid behind him, that transferred (i forget his name). this assertion was easily debunked upon analysis, the guy played something like the equivalent of 5 or 6 full games over the season. which brings me to my next point, guys compete for their minutes for their whole career. how do you geniuses rationalize giving minutes to players that are worse than the guys ahead of them? how do you tell a 5th year senior like scoop, or a true senior like joseph, "hey man we need to cut your minutes even more to play this frosh that isn't as good as you, on the off chance they might be semi-decent by march". good luck with that.

His name is DaShonte Riley and I really have to disagree with you. Of course players have an opportunity and even an obligation to improve in practice but they must also be able to apply what they've learned and gain the experience in real games. How exactly was the AO/Riley issue "debunked upon analysis"? Riley played about 125 total minutes (just over 3 full games) PRIOR to the AO injury and only 8 combined minutes in the previous 5 games. He was then pushed to nearly 30 minutes combined in the 2 games following the injury. It doesn't take a genius to see that he was not given a fair opportunity to succeed and the entire team suffered as a result. I recognize that you have to prove yourself in practice to earn minutes but practicing against the same 5 guys day after day is not the same as battling with a team that wants to beat you, in front of thousands of loud fans.

By not affording real minutes to MCW and Christmas, Boeheim is limiting this team. Both could make quality contributions, especially MCW. Each was showing progress, improvement and capability of making an impact when given the opportunity. Christmas looked decent in Melo's absence and was really quite good in the Cincinnati game. MCW was fantastic against St. Johns and may be the only player on the team, other than Waiters, that consistently plays with intensity and determination.

The debate and "what ifs" regarding the 2010 team and the AO injury will go on forever. The point is, this team is at its best when ALL its parts are working together and the goal is to avoid a repeat of 2010 and reach the Final Four. Christmas and MCW can help make that happen.

 

[Orangemen]

Not really that hard to question a philosophy that sees its teams routinely peak in November and December, before hitting the iceberg and slowly sinking.

This team needs MCW and James to contribute. They're not ready because JB predetermined they would be written out of the script. Happens every year.

James gets a shot every single game.

If he's not hitting his shots, he's not contributing enough to be out there. He's been off on his shot for about a month now.

When he starts a game hitting shots, he'll stay out there, but there's no way you can argue he's not getting chances.

 

[dasher]

He should have been developed this season so he can help us win a championship this year

Is this another one of your feelings? Really. How many teams depend on their fourth guard to win a National title? Who was the 4th guard on UConn last year?

 

[themorey]

I read somewhere this morning, probably another post on this board, that JB shortens the rotation in the grind 'em out games to 7-8, and in the "normal" games he will extend to 9-10. The UConn game should be a "normal" game and expect to see more minutes from BMK, JS, and prolly even MCW. Not so sure about the Rak.

 

[EastCoast2]

I find it funny that our fellow internet posters constantly complain about JB. He knows a lot more about basketball than any of us on here.

Really? MCW should play a lot more? He has been the 4th guard (a freshman mind you) on a forward-oriented team. We used 3 guards in 09-10, 3 guards in 10-11, and some of you act shocked we're using 3 guards again.

JB knows a lot more about MCW's skill and potential than we do. Did any of you see him, recruit him in highschool/AAU? Do any of you see him practice against Scoop/BT/Dion every day? If he were tearing it up in practice, he'd be getting a lot more PT. If he's holding his own and playing the other 3 guards evenly, he won't simply because they are veterans, and, all else equal, veterans will play better due to experience.

/rant

edit: let me be clear I think MCW is a future SU star and NBA draft pick, now is just not his time.

 

[mark79]

JB has a track record of riding his best horses when the going gets tough. He is not going to change now. Many of us including myself would like a greater peak at what MCW can do but we are not very likely to get it.

 

[BlueCurtain]

How many teams depend on their fourth guard to win a National title?

When the 2nd and 3rd guards are stinking up the joint or need the little blue pill, that fourth guard is looking pretty good. The only reason he's "4th" in the pecking order is because JB is uncomfortable balancing those minutes. Very little to do with actual performance. But that's sacrilegious heresy to suggest that, I know.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

JB has a track record of riding his best horses when the going gets tough. He is not going to change now. Many of us including myself would like a greater peak at what MCW can do but we are not very likely to get it.

It has to be tough to try and develop for the future when you feel so much is riding on the present game. I was hoping to see more MCW but with the start of this game you could tell it was not going to be a cake walk for the 'Cuse. The way the game started it took any developmental minutes for MCW off the table.

This game needed to be won by SU. The BE title was/is still in question. A loss here and the whole number one seed and Pitt/Boston could easily be derailed. This game, in its own right, had a lot of meaning for SU not to lose.

I'm hoping JB can stick with the starting of Rak. There is obviously a big difference between Rak and CJ (and even JS). If he doesn't give Rak the opening minutes, I don't think you would see him at all. It also skews all the stats the announcers want to say about the bench.

I'm also hoping that in the BET, JB will make the concerted, preplanned effort to play MCW more. Winning those games while using a deeper bench would be more beneficial. It's four games in four nights. There would be a lot of benefit if you can use the bench. And, hopefully, by that time several key aspects of the NCAA will be locked up.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I recognize that you have to prove yourself in practice to earn minutes but practicing against the same 5 guys day after day is not the same as battling with a team that wants to beat you, in front of thousands of loud fans.

Of course it's not the same.

Playing in a game is 10x more difficult than practice.

If you can't prove to the coaching staff that you can master the fundamentals in a friendly environment (like practice), you're not going to get much playing time.

Riley is averaging 4.3 points, 4.5 rebounds and 23 minutes a game ... against a MAC schedule this season.

It baffles me that people think he would have become an All-American if only he got a few more minutes a game.

 

[orangecuse]

Disagree. Im guessing you dont watch practices regularly like JB does (just an assumption on my part). If they played great and distinguished themselves in practice then I would think JB would reward them with more run (especially Rak since BMK just isnt very good).

Put it this way, if Scoop (a super senior), Triche (a junior) and Waiters (a sophmore) are lacking in production, then what have you seen from MCW on a consistent basis to think that he deserves regular playing time? ...at the expense of whom? I mean...he's the fourth guard and he's a freshman. He will have his day in the sun but it was NEVER going to be this year.

Rak vs. BMK is debatable but...believe it or not...BMK is more consistent on the defensive end than Rak.

Also, if you want to develop players in games...then you have to put them into games. We have had our fair share of close games such that I would not want either of them on the court. I would rather take a 'W' (without them playing) than an 'L' and say "hey, at least we saw what MCW/Rak are capable of in extended minutes and I think they learned a lot in this loss." You would then question why those two players got so much run. In other words, JB just cant satisfy you. Oh well. The wins keep on coming.

Good post. It's a bit comical that some feel they apparently know more than JB and what he sees on a daily basis in practice, etc. JB always says he plays the best players and, in which, gives them the best opportunity of winning now.

 

[Marsh01]

I would take a couple more losses in the regular season to have a team that is more ready for March. The goal of the regular season is to get your team ready for the tournament. You can go undefeated in the regular season and lose in the second round what good were all those wins? MCW has shown me that he deserves a chance, we were playing our best when he was in the rotation.

We are 28-1. We are a #1 seed. How much more ready for March do you want?

 

[orangecuse]

Not really that hard to question a philosophy that sees its teams routinely peak in November and December, before hitting the iceberg and slowly sinking.

This team needs MCW and James to contribute. They're not ready because JB predetermined they would be written out of the script. Happens every year.

I disagree on the predetermination comment. JB continues to utter his hope for JS to produce/hit shots as he feels this would considerably help the team.

 

[Marsh01]

When the 2nd and 3rd guards are stinking up the joint or need the little blue pill, that fourth guard is looking pretty good. The only reason he's "4th" in the pecking order is because JB is uncomfortable balancing those minutes. Very little to do with actual performance. But that's sacrilegious heresy to suggest that, I know.

I know the success of this team has to be eating away at your insides because you are really grasping at straws. Try to hold it together this next month.

 

[dasher]

When the 2nd and 3rd guards are stinking up the joint or need the little blue pill, that fourth guard is looking pretty good. The only reason he's "4th" in the pecking order is because JB is uncomfortable balancing those minutes. Very little to do with actual performance. But that's sacrilegious heresy to suggest that, I know.

So you have been disappointed in the teams play this year blue curtain? I know it's been a tough year for you.

 

[SBU72]

I would take a couple more losses in the regular season to have a team that is more ready for March. The goal of the regular season is to get your team ready for the tournament. You can go undefeated in the regular season and lose in the second round what good were all those wins? MCW has shown me that he deserves a chance, we were playing our best when he was in the rotation.

Except if/when said frosh makes a mistake or a series of mistakes that coasues those losses, you and half this board will be say: "What is he playing them for!" And then thers is the seeding where a couple or 3 or 4 more loses drops the seeding from a #1 to a #3 or 4 to make it a tougher road. Then it may be a wash on if the higher seed is better or having 10 playable guys.

 

[SBU72]

same argument different year. MCW doesnt play so he's not ready...but then its construed as he doesnt play because he isnt ready. self fulfilling prophecy. and i dont understand what seniority has to do with it. freshman play in this era of bball..they play all over the place. the way triche and waiters have been playing, I dont see how giving the kid a look see is sacrilege. in fact, im certain today i saw him about to check in at the scorers table and then he mysteriously disappeared.

It's all about the confidence the coach has in a player. JB has confiedenc in Scoop even if he knows he's shooting 50% from the line, he wants him in there at the end. Same for Triche. He's having an off day/week(s) BUT he wanted him in there for his FT at the end. Results: 2 misses. Go figure. It was the right call.

 

[SBU72]

Define "chance". He knows he gets pulled if he misses his first 2 jumpers. That's pretty much been his stat line for the past month. Try playing loose with that hook waiting. Easier said than done. As for MCW, he's shown more than enough in his limited time to get at least 10 minutes a game. It's easy to say he isn't ready - but that's what we want to believe because it's a rational argument. Doesn't mean it's a fact. Waiting for the 2 guards ahead of him to get their heads on straight at the expense of zero playing time is just limiting the overall team development and cannot possibly help team chemistry.

Actually in the Louisville game James missed his first 4 shots (3 pters) but played his 18 minutes because he was playing defense and hustled. See his follow up of his onw missed shot for a put back. Against Rutgers he missed is only shot but didn't look like he was "doing" anything else. Against UConn he made his 1st and missed his next two but also had a bunch of zeros on his stat line. His play has NOT been predicated on him makeing shots but playing all around ball. When he does neither, he gets pulled.

 

[SBU72]

This game needed to be won by SU. The BE title was/is still in question. A loss here and the whole number one seed and Pitt/Boston could easily be derailed. This game, in its own right, had a lot of meaning for SU not to lose.

.

Actually the Pitt thing is probably a lock. They pod the top 4 seeds to the nearest sight so it would be pretty hard for SU to drop below a 4 seed. Boston is probably all but a lock. Again, even if SU drops in seeding, who in the BE is going to be seeded higher? ND? Marquette? Even if they are, they probably would get St Louis instead of Boston.

 

[Marsh01]

Actually in the Louisville game James missed his first 4 shots (3 pters) but played his 18 minutes because he was playing defense and hustled. See his follow up of his onw missed shot for a put back. Against Rutgers he missed is only shot but didn't look like he was "doing" anything else. Against UConn he made his 1st and missed his next two but also had a bunch of zeros on his stat line. His play has NOT been predicated on him makeing shots but playing all around ball. When he does neither, he gets pulled.

He gets caught just standing around sometimes, especially on offense. Like you said the followed up missed shot against Louisville was stunning and I almost fell off my chair when it happened because its something we rarely see from him.

 

[OttoMets]

By not affording real minutes to MCW and Christmas, Boeheim is limiting this team. Both could make quality contributions, especially MCW. Each was showing progress, improvement and capability of making an impact when given the opportunity. Christmas looked decent in Melo's absence and was really quite good in the Cincinnati game. MCW was fantastic against St. Johns and may be the only player on the team, other than Waiters, that consistently plays with intensity and determination.

The debate and "what ifs" regarding the 2010 team and the AO injury will go on forever. The point is, this team is at its best when ALL its parts are working together and the goal is to avoid a repeat of 2010 and reach the Final Four. Christmas and MCW can help make that happen.

I'd go so far as to say that Syracuse would have lost to Cincinnati were it not for Christmas. The argument that he's not ready to play holds no water after his performance out there.

Boeheim's substitution patterns are not helping this team. His treatment of Christmas is a failing. And if CJ had gotten badly hurt on that slip last night, our season would really be in the toilet because of it.

 

[OttoMets]

I find it funny that our fellow internet posters constantly complain about JB. He knows a lot more about basketball than any of us on here.

So he's never wrong? Because he knows more about basketball than anyone here, it's not possible for Boeheim to be wrong about something.

(It goes without saying that I don't like this line of reasoning very well.)

 

[Marsh01]

So he's never wrong? Because he knows more about basketball than anyone here, it's not possible for Boeheim to be wrong about something.

(It goes without saying that I don't like this line of reasoning very well.)

How do we know he is actually wrong? Because you feel he is wrong?

 

[OttoMets]

We are 28-1. We are a #1 seed. How much more ready for March do you want?

Marsh, I love ya, you're typically the voice of reason, but this is off. Look at the other Big East games last night. Good teams are beating middle-of-the-pack and bad teams by big margins. Syracuse isn't. We haven't played good basketball for weeks, and it's not unreasonable that the newly-shortened bench has something to do with it.

Technically I guess we're as ready for March as we're going to be, but we're not "ready" in the sense that we're playing our best basketball.