How much does Syracuse spend on each sport?

kcsu

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I'm not losing any sleep over it. I'm on my lunch break right now and got a user triggered with his claim of reverse racism.
Ok guys the only color on this board is Orange.
 

nzm136

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1. Just to be clear, you can’t look at these books and determine where a sports makes or loses money. Calling anything a leech off of this level of information is a stretch (at best).

2. Title IX distorts free markets for reasons that are less than clear to me. For the record, I avidly support SU’s women teams, especially field hockey and lacrosse. While I’ll contend that Title IX gives me more options, it’s not like women’s teams would entirely disappear in this day in age, and I’d rather empower the school admins to make the decision that they think best benefits the SU community.

3. Reverse racism is just racism, and no membership in any class makes racism OK. Still, I’m not sure if mentioning that most football and basketball players at SU are black is racist. It’s a fact, albeit a dumb one that’s irrelevant to the discussion.
 

kcsu

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Exactly correct, Cuse10.

As you point out, what no one seems to mention is that the rest of the world doesn't give a hoot about Woman's soccer. If they did, the US Woman's team wouldn't have any more success than the US Men's team which didn't even qualify last year after losing to Trinidad and Tobago.

If you put a USA shirt on one of those greyhounds at a Florida dog track, a percentage of the American population would start hollering "USA, USA. USA" .
Given that the breed originated in Britain im thinking a Union Jack might be more appropriate.
 

longtimefan

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1. Just to be clear, you can’t look at these books and determine where a sports makes or loses money. Calling anything a leech off of this level of information is a stretch (at best).

2. Title IX distorts free markets for reasons that are less than clear to me. For the record, I avidly support SU’s women teams, especially field hockey and lacrosse. While I’ll contend that Title IX gives me more options, it’s not like women’s teams would entirely disappear in this day in age, and I’d rather empower the school admins to make the decision that they think best benefits the SU community.

3. Reverse racism is just racism, and no membership in any class makes racism OK. Still, I’m not sure if mentioning that most football and basketball players at SU are black is racist. It’s a fact, albeit a dumb one that’s irrelevant to the discussion.
Two points:
1.) Women's sports in this country might not have appeared in the first place without Title IX
2.) If they would not "entirely" disappear, what percentage would? What percentage do you think should?
 

longtimefan

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The only part of your post I agree with is the part about allowing women displaying their athletic prowess.

So our opinion differs. I'll stick with a 54 person UVA woman's crew team being an absurdity.
And there are male athletes on Olympic sports teams who think 85 FB scholarships is an absurdity.
 

Townie72

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Who cares about British and Canadian H0T Takes?

Brits speaking of the arrogance of others. Classic.

Looked bad to the rest of the world too. I just referenced the English speaking countries.

I found it appalling and disgusting,
 

longtimefan

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Looked bad to the rest of the world too. I just referenced the English speaking countries.

I found it appalling and disgusting,
I thought they totally overdid it vs. Thailand. The rest of the matches their deportment was reasonable.
 

Hoo's That

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How much do you know about Title IX and the three ways schools can be in compliance?

I'm guessing, not much.

Also, 54 women on the UVA rowing team is an absurdity.
You can be in compliance by having direct proportionality between the percentages of each s e x and the number of athletic opportunities for each s e x (BTW, the male players most big-time WBball teams practice against count as females for Title IX purposes), you can offer as full a slate of sports as your students show interest in (not having a field hockey team won't hurt your Title IX compliance numbers if you can show no one wants to play even though you tried to start a team), and, I imagine, if like Stanford and ND you offer basically every sport at the fully funded level there's nothing more you can do despite your majority female situation because you've maxed out. I've never claimed omniscience on every aspect of Title IX, but I do know, for example, that schools with just a WLax team are unlikely to start a MLax team without dropping another sport (like Richmond did) because they're using WLax to get closer to Title IX proportionality.

I said he must not be a fan of Title IX because just about every women's sport is non-revenue for just about every school and he said he hates non-revs.

24 rowers and 3 cox are in 3 8-seat races .
8 rowers are in the 2 4-seat races.
Plus novice races, usually at least 1 8-seat plus cox.
That's 35 (not counting novices) on the water each regatta.

Stanford, 46 on the non-lightweight rowing roster. UWashington (this year's champion), 64 on the rowing roster. UTexas (this year's runner-up), 64 on the rowing roster. Maybe other schools should re-evaluate their roster size in order to be more competitive because theirs seems to be too small?

I know you enjoy looking down your nose at others a lot. Be careful in your choice of direction.
 

HRE Otto IV

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I think Top 40 is realistic for football. Would like to see us be at least Top 25 in every other sport.
 

NJCuse97

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Looked bad to the rest of the world too. I just referenced the English speaking countries.

I found it appalling and disgusting,
I hear you, but this seems to be the way of the world these days and I think many of the complainers are complaining only because they are on the losing end. I personally don't endorse it either, but it is no different than the 80's and 90's Miami teams. Everyone hated them, and then the haters became the hated as the "get off my lawn" contingent. At this point, too much in sports is about over celebration (why they had celebration penalties) and putting yourself in the spotlight and that is a part of why the mystique of Miami persists in my opinion (see, I'm trying to bring it back to a "football board" topic here). We lose recruits to them and scratch our heads as to why. That brash, in your face bravado is part of their "brand" (sorry to evoke another dangerous topic). There are many potential reasons, and many contrary examples I'm sure of athletes who don't like that behavior, but in general we all seem to love smack talk and showboating especially when it's backed up. How many times have we seen Desmond Howard strike the "Heisman" in adds or promos celebrating college football? That resonates with the athletes of today. The Tim Duncan's are a rarity compared to the James Hardens and Russell Westbrooks of the world. Melo was just called out by Chauncey Billups because all he cares about is getting his 30 points. It's like we forgot about Art Monk's "Fun Bunch", and the Super Bowl Shuffle?
 

NJCuse97

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cuse10 I am curious to hear your thoughts of Justyn Knight, our most recent NCAA National Champ. Is he a leech? Heck, since 2003 we've won 5 NCAA championships and none of them were "non-leech" programs. Even if you wanted to take out men's lacrosse as a contributor program, we still have 2 in leech programs (Cross Country and Field Hockey, both 2015). These team and these wins contribute to our marketing, recognition, and negotiation power, let alone the opportunities for student athletes they represent, or the increased applications and enrollment they foster through that increase awareness of Syracuse University.
 
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HtownOrange

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It's like we forgot about Art Monk's "Fun Bunch", and the Super Bowl Shuffle?

I had done a good job forgetting about the Super Bowl Shuffle until you reminded me. Some things are best forgotten. ;)
 

Townie72

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Haha, don't hurt your hands clutching those pearls. Snowflake.
Outscoring the opponent by 10 goals in the second half and celebrating each goal like it was the winning basket in the Final 4, did seem beyond excessive to me.

Seems surprising to me that you and others can't see how fundamentally objectionable that is. But that's where we are in the US these days. You should read some of the comments from Canadian and British players.

This is, afterall, the country that turned Olympic basketball from a interesting competition to a laughable Exhibition game.
 

Townie72

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I hear you, but this seems to be the way of the world these days and I think many of the complainers are complaining only because they are on the losing end. I personally don't endorse it either, but it is no different than the 80's and 90's Miami teams. Everyone hated them, and then the haters became the hated as the "get off my lawn" contingent. At this point, too much in sports is about over celebration (why they had celebration penalties) and putting yourself in the spotlight and that is a part of why the mystique of Miami persists in my opinion (see, I'm trying to bring it back to a "football board" topic here). We lose recruits to them and scratch our heads as to why. That brash, in your face bravado is part of their "brand" (sorry to evoke another dangerous topic). There are many potential reasons, and many contrary examples I'm sure of athletes who don't like that behavior, but in general we all seem to love smack talk and showboating especially when it's backed up. How many times have we seen Desmond Howard strike the "Heisman" in adds or promos celebrating college football? That resonates with the athletes of today. The Tim Duncan's are a rarity compared to the James Hardens and Russell Westbrooks of the world. Melo was just called out by Chauncey Billups because all he cares about is getting his 30 points. It's like we forgot about Art Monk's "Fun Bunch", and the Super Bowl Shuffle?
The 70's and 80's teams were so chocked full of miscreants, the University on their own changed the direction of the program.

Did you notice Tyus Battle doing handstands after waxing an out-manned opponent?

There's a market for players who have some dignity.
 

Bayside44

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Outscoring the opponent by 10 goals in the second half and celebrating each goal like it was the winning basket in the Final 4, did seem beyond excessive to me.

Seems surprising to me that you and others can't see how fundamentally objectionable that is. But that's where we are in the US these days. You should read some of the comments from Canadian and British players.

This is, afterall, the country that turned Olympic basketball from a interesting competition to a laughable Exhibition game.

On Olympic hoops - we did lose (well JT2 horrible and selfish roster construction in 1988) in 2004, and played games to the wire before and since. We've learned we cannot roll the ball out there like the good ole days.

I just want whatever formula that would give us more lax scholarships.
 

NJCuse97

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The 70's and 80's teams were so chocked full of miscreants, the University on their own changed the direction of the program.

Did you notice Tyus Battle doing handstands after waxing an out-manned opponent?

There's a market for players who have some dignity.
I agree, but admit to loving our '86 - '96 era that had plenty of showboat, especially hoops and lax.
 

Townie72

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You can be in compliance by having direct proportionality between the percentages of each s e x and the number of athletic opportunities for each s e x (BTW, the male players most big-time WBball teams practice against count as females for Title IX purposes), you can offer as full a slate of sports as your students show interest in (not having a field hockey team won't hurt your Title IX compliance numbers if you can show no one wants to play even though you tried to start a team), and, I imagine, if like Stanford and ND you offer basically every sport at the fully funded level there's nothing more you can do despite your majority female situation because you've maxed out. I've never claimed omniscience on every aspect of Title IX, but I do know, for example, that schools with just a WLax team are unlikely to start a MLax team without dropping another sport (like Richmond did) because they're using WLax to get closer to Title IX proportionality.

I said he must not be a fan of Title IX because just about every women's sport is non-revenue for just about every school and he said he hates non-revs.

24 rowers and 3 cox are in 3 8-seat races .
8 rowers are in the 2 4-seat races.
Plus novice races, usually at least 1 8-seat plus cox.
That's 35 (not counting novices) on the water each regatta.

Stanford, 46 on the non-lightweight rowing roster. UWashington (this year's champion), 64 on the rowing roster. UTexas (this year's runner-up), 64 on the rowing roster. Maybe other schools should re-evaluate their roster size in order to be more competitive because theirs seems to be too small?

I know you enjoy looking down your nose at others a lot. Be careful in your choice of direction.
You don't have to have proportionality to satisfy the requirements of Title IX.

That's the way colleges have chosen to do it. But the law says that as long as your programs map to the level of student interest, you are OK.

The system that has been created now has lots of stakeholders. The loser in all of this are the better woman students who are crowded out of the Admissions process (especially at schools like UVA) by "athletes" with lower GPA's and test scores.
 

Hoo's That

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You don't have to have proportionality to satisfy the requirements of Title IX.

That's the way colleges have chosen to do it. But the law says that as long as your programs map to the level of student interest, you are OK.

The system that has been created now has lots of stakeholders. The loser in all of this are the better woman students who are crowded out of the Admissions process (especially at schools like UVA) by "athletes" with lower GPA's and test scores.
Women in non-rev sports at UVa usually have as good an admissions package as the non-athletes. Are there onesies and twosies that got "Look the other way" admissions? Of course there are. I won't include WB-ball in this discussion.

One of UVa's "dirty little secrets" is the affirmative action program it runs to admit males. Roughly 70% of each class would be female without it, so there already are females being turned down who would otherwise get in.
 

Townie72

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Women in non-rev sports at UVa usually have as good an admissions package as the non-athletes. Are there onesies and twosies that got "Look the other way" admissions? Of course there are. I won't include WB-ball in this discussion.

One of UVa's "dirty little secrets" is the affirmative action program it runs to admit males. Roughly 70% of each class would be female without it, so there already are females being turned down who would otherwise get in.
That's not what I witness in the private high school world of DC. The girls that are going to UVA, Duke and the Ivies are leapfrogging over better students. It's rampant. When you look at who out of each class is going to the better schools, it's obvious the athletes have huge advantages.

Coaches show up at Admissions with a prioritized list of their recruits. If the "admissions packages" of these athletes were as good as everyone else's, this wouldn't be necessary.

I don't doubt that women applicants are being discriminated. But what do you think would happen to UVA's admissions and the school, if it were to become 70% women?
 

Hoo's That

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That's not what I witness in the private high school world of DC. The girls that are going to UVA, Duke and the Ivies are leapfrogging over better students. It's rampant. When you look at who out of each class is going to the better schools, it's obvious the athletes have huge advantages.

Coaches show up at Admissions with a prioritized list of their recruits. If the "admissions packages" of these athletes were as good as everyone else's, this wouldn't be necessary.

I don't doubt that women applicants are being discriminated. But what do you think would happen to UVA's admissions and the school, if it were to become 70% women?
Men's sports would disappear. The funding of women's sports would then become troublesome. And an large number of the other non-STEM academic elites (just about every one with a majority-female student body) would have to own up to their affirmative action program for male students {cough-Stanford-cough}.
 

Townie72

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Men's sports would disappear. The funding of women's sports would then become troublesome. And an large number of the other non-STEM academic elites (just about every one with a majority-female student body) would have to own up to their affirmative action program for male students {cough-Stanford-cough}.
It'd be social Nirvana for the 30% of the students that are male.
 

Scooch

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Outscoring the opponent by 10 goals in the second half and celebrating each goal like it was the winning basket in the Final 4, did seem beyond excessive to me.

Seems surprising to me that you and others can't see how fundamentally objectionable that is. But that's where we are in the US these days. You should read some of the comments from Canadian and British players.

This is, afterall, the country that turned Olympic basketball from a interesting competition to a laughable Exhibition game.
Spare me.
 

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