How much trouble are we in as a program going forward?

[Ish88888]

This is a fair question -- right now there is no reason to sugar coat anything -- things look bleak now and going forward. There is no backcourt to speak of, no guaranty that any returning guys improve or get to the level people think they will get to, and you have an inevitable coaching transition. Coupled with the complete miss of the 2017 recruiting class as well as the results we see this year (with what was supposed to be a team "loaded with talent"), I don't really see much of a light at the end of the tunnel right now. Plus we play in the ACC -- every team has talent, every game will be difficult. Honestly the ACC has not been kind to us so far and I don't see some kind of inevitable change to that right now.

We simply have not experienced what we are seeing and I think it's difficult for people to process.

Seriously? How do we not recruit/develop a backcourt? It's the crux of what a college hoops squad is all about.

 

[OrangeDW]

Good assessment, not sure what lydons position is in the league , a slow, non attletic, 6'9" player. They call him a stretch 4, but really? You need a 20 ft. Game for that.

He has a 20 foot game. He's not unathletic either.

 

[Ish88888]

He has a 20 foot game. He's not unathletic either.

He is melos size and frame but doesn't have close to his game. He should come back for another year, but after this dumpster fire of a season, he might bolt.

 

[Cusefan0307]

He is melos size and frame but doesn't have close to his game. He should come back for another year, but after this dumpster fire of a season, he might bolt.

Nobody said he's Melo. He's still an NBA player. Do you honestly think everyone in the NBA is as talented as Melo?

 

[OrangeDW]

He is melos size and frame but doesn't have close to his game. He should come back for another year, but after this dumpster fire of a season, he might bolt.

So because he's not as skilled as a guy that's probably the most skilled Syracuse player ever and has had a hall of fame NBA career, he's not an NBA player?

I'd say someone like Matt Bonner would be a good comparision for Lydon, but Lydon is more athletic and a much better leaper.

 

[Col. Bleep]

As bad as things are - and are likely to be all painful season long - there is some talent out there.
Lydon is a player.
Both Thompson and Battle may well develop into very good players.

It seems one reason Lydon is struggling at times is that teams can key on him.
What else do they have to worry about offensively from the Orange besides preventing White from getting wide open looks?

 

[OrangeDW]

Nobody said he's Melo. He's still an NBA player. Do you honestly think everyone in the NBA is as talented as Melo?

That was one of the worst straw men non points I've ever seen.

We have a lot of guys in the league, none of whom are anywhere near as good as Melo.

Chris McCullough is in the league. Warrick played in the league for a decade. Grant is in the league and plays a lot. They all have different games, but Lydon is similar size and a way better 3 point shooter than any of them. Hence, why he's got "stretch 4" potential.

 

[Ish88888]

Nobody said he's Melo. He's still an NBA player. Do you honestly think everyone in the NBA is as talented as Melo?

Dont put words in my mouth. I said, he has the same frame, but not nearly the same game. All i am saying is his March magic from last year was a flash. He still has plenty of developing to do. If you leaves after this year it will be a mistake.

 

[Ish88888]

So because he's not as skilled as a guy that's probably the most skilled Syracuse player ever and has had a hall of fame NBA career, he's not an NBA player?

I'd say someone like Matt Bonner would be a good comparision for Lydon, but Lydon is more athletic and a much better leaper.

Lydon's NBA accolades are being based on his March run last year. He has plenty of developing to do. Not sure how he fits into a pro offense right now.

 

[OrangeDW]

Lydon's NBA accolades are being based on his March run last year. He has plenty of developing to do. Not sure how he fits into a pro offense right now.

He's a 6'9 44% three point shooter right now.

Plenty of developing to do like every college sophomore, so not sure why "right now" is such a concern? He's 6'9, can shoot it, and is a young player who should get stronger and develop.

I hope he comes back too and don't think he'll do much in the NBA next year(which really doesn't matter for this discussion because that's not how the NBA scouts look st things)...but we don't have to pretend he's a terrible pro prospect.

 

[cuseguy]

That was one of the worst straw men non points I've ever seen.

We have a lot of guys in the league, none of whom are anywhere near as good as Melo.

Chris McCullough is in the league. Warrick played in the league for a decade. Grant is in the league and plays a lot. They all have different games, but Lydon is similar size and a way better 3 point shooter than any of them. Hence, why he's got "stretch 4" potential.

Lydon struggles to put the ball on the floor and create off the dribble. Severely limited there. His athletic ability is limited as well. It's evident at the college level. In the NBA, it will be glaring.

 

[OrangeDW]

Dont put words in my mouth. I said, he has the same frame, but not nearly the same game. All i am saying is his March magic from last year was a flash. He still has plenty of developing to do. If you leaves after this year it will be a mistake.

He's actually a much better 3 point shooter than Melo at the same age though. Which is probably the biggest reason they like him...he's a 6'9 player who shoots 40+% from 3.

 

[OrangeDW]

Lydon struggles to put the ball on the floor and create off the dribble. Severely limited there. His athletic ability is limited as well. It's evident at the college level. In the NBA, it will be glaring.

NBA teams won't ask him to put the ball on the floor or create off the dribble. He'll be a pick and pop guy and a catch and shoot guy.

 

[supp]

Let's talk about this at the end of the season. If we finish 0-18 in the league, well...I don't even want to think about it. But I think you ask Boeheim politely to step aside at that point in time. He cannot oversee a rebuild here. It just won't happen at his age with rumors of retirement endlessly circulating.

 

[Tony DeFranco]

NBA teams won't ask him to put the ball on the floor or create off the dribble. He'll be a pick and pop guy and a catch and shoot guy.

From ur description I can't see any team wanting to use a high pick on a guy whose ideal NBA career would be a pick and pop guy

 

[MSOrange]

People who wanted G gone should never post on this board ever again

I certainly never wanted G gone. I thought he was a really good player and seemed like a really good kid also, but I underrated how much we would miss him in a big way.

 

[OrangeDW]

From ur description I can't see any team wanting to use a high pick on a guy whose ideal NBA career would be a pick and pop guy

A high pick? No, probably not. But I think he'll get picked and make the league. Hopefully in another year or even two.

 

[SoBeCuse]

It can't just be all sanctions related. 7-8 of our rotation players are all players other big time schools wanted. They all of a sudden aren't any good? Even White/Gillon were wanted by big players to transfer into. I don't get it.

 

[rrlbees]

None

 

[Briancuse]

None

Your new avatar is great.

 

[Czar]

People complaining about Lydon and how he totally wouldn't do anything in the NBA, go look at NBA rookie statistics.

Alright, now that you're back and done drooling about Embiid, ROOKIES DO NOT IMMEDIATELY CONTRIBUTE. No one except the all time greats and volume players on really really bad teams get more than 20-24 mpg if that. Even lottery picks!

So why would Lydon leave? He likely goes in the first round, between 15-30. He gets to play for an NBA team, he gets to play full time, he gets all the support staff he wants. Nutrition, training, gym time, you name it. He's an investment now. At his most optimistic, he has a season like Domantas Sabonis is having right now. At worst? He gets a lot of D-League run and sits on the bench and he learns. And then he comes into his second year, with a real NBA body, and with another year of honing his skills as a 3 point player and post defender.

So people saying that have NO IDEA how anyone thinks Lydon will leave, stop spewing garbage, and worry about the college game if you're not going to pay attention to the NBA one.

 

[kcsu]

Unless he gets injured he is going to leave.

 

[ClamOtto]

Big picture - there is reason for concern that goes beyond the fact that we've had some mediocre teams in recent years. SU has always had structural disadvantages in big-time college sports. Relatively small, under-resourced private university located in an out-of-the-way place unfortunately known mostly for getting huge amounts of snow. Look at how few private universities are in P5 conferences and how many of those are consistently successful. Private, tuition-driven universities generally don't have the money, the alumni bases or the legislative support to compete against the giant flagship universities (more true in football, but still applies to basketball somewhat). And they don't have the extra difficulty of trying to attract coaches and athletes to Syracuse. Not bashing Syracuse - just being realistic about its reputation in the outside world. I think it's a big factor in why athletics, and the rest of the university to some extent, is so full of alums.

it's already come home to roost in football, but the school has been able to overcome those obstacles in basketball mostly because of the Dome and having a legendary HOF coach who is willing to work for way-below market and not look elsewhere. It also helps being in a state without a well-known flagship public university. The good news moving forward is that it was enough to get us in the ACC, so we'll never become Colgate with worse academics. The bad news is that the university is going to have to figure out how to compete without its biggest built-in advantage. This was always inevitable, but the sanctions and retirement pre-announcement have hastened it. It's clearly too early to know how it will work out, but we can't ignore the risks. I have no doubt Duke will go through the same thing when K retires.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Big picture - there is reason for concern that goes beyond the fact that we've had some mediocre teams in recent years. SU has always had structural disadvantages in big-time college sports. Relatively small, under-resourced private university located in an out-of-the-way place unfortunately known mostly for getting huge amounts of snow. Look at how few private universities are in P5 conferences and how many of those are consistently successful. Private, tuition-driven universities generally don't have the money, the alumni bases or the legislative support to compete against the giant flagship universities (more true in football, but still applies to basketball somewhat). And they don't have the extra difficulty of trying to attract coaches and athletes to Syracuse. Not bashing Syracuse - just being realistic about its reputation in the outside world. I think it's a big factor in why athletics, and the rest of the university to some extent, is so full of alums.

it's already come home to roost in football, but the school has been able to overcome those obstacles in basketball mostly because of the Dome and having a legendary HOF coach who is willing to work for way-below market and not look elsewhere. It also helps being in a state without a well-known flagship public university. The good news moving forward is that it was enough to get us in the ACC, so we'll never become Colgate with worse academics. The bad news is that the university is going to have to figure out how to compete without its biggest built-in advantage. This was always inevitable, but the sanctions and retirement pre-announcement have hastened it. It's clearly too early to know how it will work out, but we can't ignore the risks. I have no doubt Duke will go through the same thing when K retires.

I don't think Duke will suffer that much when coach I retires... there was some study done and duke hoops is one of the top 10 brands in all of sports... not just college hoops but all of sports.