How patient has Syracuse been with Dino Babers? Record shows he needs winning season to keep his job

[donniesyracuse]

I guess I don't have enough information to conclude that the hires were bad.

If you are referring to the OL coach, I was very happy with the decision to hire him and felt that for a decent period he did a solid job.

I also liked the OC and QB hires last year.

I liked the two DC hires over the past three or four years.

I like the special teams coach hire last year.

Coaches have success in certain situations and do not have success in other situations - you never really know.

All in all, I feel very good with how Babers has built his staff.

I wasn't really making a point about Babers' value as a head coach. I was just suggesting that perhaps Babers should not be absolved completely for the failures of 2020 because some of the adversity was self-inflicted (i.e., having to replace two coordinators that did not workout).

 

[orangenauburn]

Even if you ignore the 1-10 season, Dino needs to go 9-4 this year to not be under .500 for his time here.

Challenge accepted

 

[orangenauburn]

It'll probably be a little different.

I know this - Beck's going to put the ball in the air.

Assuming he stays healthy, Shrader is going to smash the single season completions and passing yardage single season records.

Even though it didn't translate into points or a win, I liked his play calling in the bowl game against a good Minnesota team

 

[Chip]

I wasn't really making a point about Babers' value as a head coach. I was just suggesting that perhaps Babers should not be absolved completely for the failures of 2020 because some of the adversity was self-inflicted (i.e., having to replace two coordinators that did not workout).

I get your point. In my opinion, it's not as much about a bad hire (it happens), it's how quickly you identify the issue and move on.

Marrone quickly realize Spence was a problem, and basically neutered him before the end of his first season, then replaced him.

In this particular case, we went 10-3 in 2018, so it made sense not to change anything in 2019. But after 2019, I can see why Dino wanted to move on. Ward isn't a bad DC, but his 4-3 style was going to be tougher here given the type of talent we can recruit. And I don't think Lynch was ever meant to be the solo solution at OC, but after Lewis left, he gave him some time to try it.

The unfortunate part was that Covid meant the new guys had no real practice to implement their systems. I also don't think Gilbert was a particularly good hire, but oh well, we moved on there as well.

 

[Scooch]

Dino has had more institutional support and resources at his disposal than any SU head football coach since the early days of Mac, if not ever.

He has been the beneficiary of dramatically increased spending for coaches, better transportation for recruiting, massively upgraded training facilities on campus, a multi-million dollar Dome renovation, gobs of conference TV money, and the like.

And he is now entering his eighth year at the helm.

For all of that, IMHO, Dino has been fine. Not great, sometimes not even good. Just… fine.

Look, a lot of that is because SU is one of the most challenging jobs in P5. You all know why.

But I’ll be blunt, if he can’t win at least 6 games this season then I wouldn’t shed a tear if he’s let go. EIGHT years should net more than 2 bowls and one winning season.

I mean, if we’re afraid to start over from *that* then why do we even have a program? If “stability” means sucking then who cares about stability?

 

[JeremyCuse]

I’m just hoping he has delegated game management. Everything else I’m fine with

If he hasn't done it in the first 7 years here, its unlikely he's gonna realize how much of an issue it is in year 8. As has been discussed here multiple times he actually thinks he's good at it so I highly doubt it.

 

[RF2044]

Dino has had more institutional support and resources at his disposal than any SU head football coach since the early days of Mac, if not ever.

He has been the beneficiary of dramatically increased spending for coaches, better transportation for recruiting, massively upgraded training facilities on campus, a multi-million dollar Dome renovation, gobs of conference TV money, and the like.

And he is now entering his eighth year at the helm.

For all of that, IMHO, Dino has been fine. Not great, sometimes not even good. Just… fine.

Look, a lot of that is because SU is one of the most challenging jobs in P5. You all know why.

But I’ll be blunt, if he can’t win at least 6 games this season then I wouldn’t shed a tear if he’s let go. EIGHT years should net more than 2 bowls and one winning season.

I mean, if we’re afraid to start over from *that* then why do we even have a program? If “stability” means sucking then who cares about stability?

And if he does?

I see a lot of posts discussing what should be done IF he doesn't get to.500 and back to a bowl; what about if he posts back-to-back bowl seasons, and is running it back the following year with an experienced QB ready to step in for the departed Shrader -- making a third consecutive bowl season likely?

 

[Moontan]

EIGHT years should net more than 2 bowls and one winning season.

He already has two winning seasons.
Number three is coming up….

 

[SouthernCuse]

And if he does?

I see a lot of posts discussing what should be done IF he doesn't get to.500 and back to a bowl; what about if he posts back-to-back bowl seasons, and is running it back the following year with an experienced QB ready to step in for the departed Shrader -- making a third consecutive bowl season likely?

Whoa there. I am all for pre season expectations, but c'mon

 

[kcsu]

the question is: were those his preferred hires, or were they the result of a shoestring budget?

Martin was family. As to budget he had a solid budget just made some bad choices

 

[RF2044]

Whoa there. I am all for pre season expectations, but c'mon
View attachment 229571

C'mon what?

We return a talented and experienced nucleus on both sides of the ball, and have one of the top dual threat quarterbacks in college basketball. I would be shocked if we don't make a bowl this year.

In fact, I think it's more likely that we get to 9 wins with improved depth, than don't make it to .500 and minimum bowl eligibility.

 

[kcsu]

I guess I don't have enough information to conclude that the hires were bad.

If you are referring to the OL coach, I was very happy with the decision to hire him and felt that for a decent period he did a solid job.

I also liked the OC and QB hires last year.

I liked the two DC hires over the past three or four years.

I like the special teams coach hire last year.

Coaches have success in certain situations and do not have success in other situations - you never really know.

All in all, I feel very good with how Babers has built his staff.

Agreed. Once JW got involved and more hands-on Dino stepped it up. I'm sure some of it was money but I'm also sure a big part of it was JW. He definitely had a major role in getting a dedicated special team's coach.

 

[kcsu]

If he hasn't done it in the first 7 years here, its unlikely he's gonna realize how much of an issue it is in year 8. As has been discussed here multiple times he actually thinks he's good at it so I highly doubt it.

Homer, Chapter 3

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Dino has had more institutional support and resources at his disposal than any SU head football coach since the early days of Mac, if not ever.

He has been the beneficiary of dramatically increased spending for coaches, better transportation for recruiting, massively upgraded training facilities on campus, a multi-million dollar Dome renovation, gobs of conference TV money, and the like.

And he is now entering his eighth year at the helm.

For all of that, IMHO, Dino has been fine. Not great, sometimes not even good. Just… fine.

Look, a lot of that is because SU is one of the most challenging jobs in P5. You all know why.

But I’ll be blunt, if he can’t win at least 6 games this season then I wouldn’t shed a tear if he’s let go. EIGHT years should net more than 2 bowls and one winning season.

I mean, if we’re afraid to start over from *that* then why do we even have a program? If “stability” means sucking then who cares about stability?

Yeah.

 

[Scooch]

And if he does?

I see a lot of posts discussing what should be done IF he doesn't get to.500 and back to a bowl; what about if he posts back-to-back bowl seasons, and is running it back the following year with an experienced QB ready to step in for the departed Shrader -- making a third consecutive bowl season likely?

I don’t understand the question. If he makes a bowl then I’d offer him a hearty congratulations. What are you getting at?

 

[Scooch]

He already has two winning seasons.
Number three is coming up….

My bad. I forgot we were 7-5 last year pre-bowl. Was thinking it was 6-6.

I sure hope #3 is coming up.

 

[RF2044]

I don’t understand the question. If he makes a bowl then I’d offer him a hearty congratulations. What are you getting at?

Yours is about the fifth separate post in this thread making a similar point related to if Dino doesn't get to .500. Also, re-reading your post I see it was more couched in "well, if he doesn't, then..." logic, moreso that complaining about his record like some of the others.

My response wasn't directed specifically at you so much as it was about the general sentiment that we might not get back to .500 or better this year. I get that the fanbase is in large part shell shocked over the events of the past two decades, but the team is certainly positioned well -- putting it mildly -- for success this year, and a repeat bowl performance.

 

[Scooch]

Yours is about the fifth separate post in this thread making a similar point related to if Dino doesn't get to .500. Also, re-reading your post I see it was more couched in "well, if he doesn't, then..." logic, moreso that complaining about his record.

My response wasn't directed specifically at you so much as it was about the general sentiment that we might not get back to .500 or better this year. I get that the fanbase is in large part shell shocked over the events of the past two decades, but the team is certainly positioned well -- putting it mildly -- for success this year, and a repeat bowl performance.

OK. The thread was about “patience” with Dino, so I simply said that patience should be long gone if he can’t get to a bowl this season.

I sure hope we exceed that minimum expectation.

I’m not as optimistic as you are, but that’s fine. It’s not shell-shock, it’s that we don’t have depth (like always), have notable holes, and I’m not convinced Dino can avoid the late season swoons that have become his norm here.

It’s not like I won’t be rooting for us to win every game.

 

[SUskibum]

Everyone is making a reasonable point about the resources that are being offered to Dino relative to Syracuse history. (Although staff compensation/budget and facility upgrades have only really been post Covid)

However that is not a metric that matters. The metric that matters is what we have poured in vs the top 50 P5 programs we are competing with. Everything we have done, most already had or are in the process of spending even more than we are.

Now I am a firm believer you can get top quartile results with median resources if you have your collective act together but we haven’t even been median till the last year or two.

Dino has averaged 6.5 regular season wins the last 4 years (excepting Covid) and he runs a program we can be extremely proud of. The trend is for better things ahead, not worse imo

 

[RF2044]

OK. The thread was about “patience” with Dino, so I simply said that patience should be long gone if he can’t get to a bowl this season.

I sure hope we exceed that minimum expectation.

I’m not as optimistic as you are, but that’s fine. It’s not shell-shock, it’s that we don’t have depth (like always), have notable holes, and I’m not convinced Dino can avoid the late season swoons that have become his norm here.

It’s not like I won’t be rooting for us to win every game.

That's fair / fine. And I disagree about the improved depth, but time will tell. It's not like we haven't wilted all years outside of 2018, when injuries finally take their toll.

This year feels different to me, on both sides of the ball. Depth and quality are both up. And we aren't relying upon true frosh for once to have to crack the two-deep [another sign that depth has improved].

Feels like we can shrug off a key injury or two without entire positional units being compromised, as in the recent past. Huge step in the right direction.

 

[GoSU96]

The top 30 the last two years has been top 20 caliber. That’s a marked improvement. The overall size a speed on the roster has improved. More guys getting drafted and named to post season teams.

The defense has been so much better. Not lock down but very good.

On defense there aren’t “stars” but other than corner there is good talent and depth with not a huge fall off at LB and DL.

Offense, namely Shrader, needs to keep improving. He’s doesn't need make a similar leap in efficiency that he did last year, needs to avoid the big int’s (0 pick sixes should be a goal) and improve his completion % 3-5 percent.

If he can get to 3000, 27 TD’s, 7 picks, 68% the offense will be fine.

 

[CousCuse]

Everyone is making a reasonable point about the resources that are being offered to Dino relative to Syracuse history. (Although staff compensation/budget and facility upgrades have only really been post Covid)

However that is not a metric that matters. The metric that matters is what we have poured in vs the top 50 P5 programs we are competing with. Everything we have done, most already had or are in the process of spending even more than we are.

Now I am a firm believer you can get top quartile results with median resources if you have your collective act together but we haven’t even been median till the last year or two.

Dino has averaged 6.5 regular season wins the last 4 years (excepting Covid) and he runs a program we can be extremely proud of. The trend is for better things ahead, not worse imo

Holy cherry picking Batman.

 

[TheCusian]

As I’ve said before, the issue isn’t overall winning %. It’s *where* his best season came in conjunction with where Covid hit.

His longevity is seen as a mark on the AD/school not being as serious about winning - when it’s more about re upping a coach after one of the best seasons in the last 25 years. The season that in a normal year would have been his last was the 1-10 Covid year. But I don’t think you can fire him (w a big payout) when the cards were so stacked against him - combined w the financial implications resulting from no fans.

Reasonable people can differ about 2021, but we lost a ridiculous number of games by 3 or on the last possession. And we were rewarded w a decent/good 2022.

 

[ECE '76]

Gilbert went out and brought in Shradder and his ground game in 21 was one of the best in SU history. He's the OC at Ole Miss now and I think the Kiffin's know what they're doing.

Ummm, no. He's just an Offensive Analyst, not Coordinator. He's BEEN OUT OF FOOTBALL for the last year.

 

[MSOrange]

Ummm, no. He's just an Offensive Analyst, not Coordinator. He's BEEN OUT OF FOOTBALL for the last year.

Good catch. I’m shocked that CousCuse was caught playing loose with the facts