How the tide has turned.

[Chip]

Not being flippant. The message being, what? "You're a good coach, but we don't like guys who leave while still under contract?" Do I think Marrone handled the Buffalo situation correctly? No. Do I think he tried to apply the Parcells/Belichick notion that you never coach for an owner who didn't hire you? Yes. Do I think that he received bad intel from his agent? Yes. Do I think that Casullo hurt him? I think to an extent, yes. If by some weird astro-physics anomaly I were to be named SU AD, would I hire him back as the SU HC? I would.

The message being he took an NFL job when his stock was hot.

Sorry, but even if Marrone told me so himself, the notion that he left for the Bills because the SU job wasn't all he was promised, is ludicrous.

 

[anomander]

Hey, I liked Marrone. I'm just saying you can't judge Marrone's 4 years v. Shafer's 2 and say it has meaning. I can like Marrone without having to tear down Shafer. Shafer's year 1 was better than Marrone's. Maybe Shafer's year 3 will be better than Marrone's which won't be saying much or maybe Shafer's year 4 will be better than Marrone's. We'll see. In either case, I liked Marrone.

The difference was Shafer was given the job because we wanted to keep things going from what Marrone had started to build. The 2 aren't comparable. Marrone did the heavy lifting part of the rebuild, Shafer was supposed to be taking us to the next level, not another rebuild.

 

[CuseOnly]

Love it. I'm unhappy so I'm going to go to the NFL now.

I was going to go later but instead I'll just go now.

He's an OL coach today.

Looks like the Marrone fans still haven't received the message that the league so loudly delivered Marrone a few months ago.

And yes, I wish he was still coaching here. But that's apples and potatoes.

He is Assistant Head Coach and OL Coach. Very different than being just an OL coach and I am sure hugely different in pay scale as well.

What message was so loudly delivered to Marrone??...that you can leave a job and get paid $4 mil for that job AND at the same time get a new job? That message was...hire yourself a great agent, that was loud and clear.

As Marrone himself has said to recruits, "if you can play, the league will find you." Same holds true if you are a talented coach, and make no mistake, he is talented. He will absolutely get another head coaching job in either college or the pros because he is talented.

I can name at least 10 coaches that were way worse than Marrone that keep getting Head coaching jobs and opportunities.

 

[dasher]

Did you even read the post?

Warts and all Marrone was getting the job done. The guy had snakes in his head and is high maintenance, never claimed he wasn't, but so what? Most places try to figure out a way to make a high maintenance guy who is getting the job done happy.

Kinda funny how you and Bees want to fixate on a single point in the whole post. Just setting the context for what a disaster the last two years have been.

the last two years? SS first year was better than anything Marrone did. He went 7-6 against real competition. Last year he didn't have a qb. due to injuries. Marrone had one that he inherited. A pro. I think I will wait 4 years to see what SS has done. Apples to Apples

 

[dasher]

He is Assistant Head Coach and OL Coach. Very different than being just an OL coach and I am sure hugely different in pay scale as well.

What message was so loudly delivered to Marrone??...that you can leave a job and get paid $4 mil for that job AND at the same time get a new job? That message was...hire yourself a great agent, that was loud and clear.

As Marrone himself has said to recruits, "if you can play, the league will find you." Same holds true if you are a talented coach, and make no mistake, he is talented. He will absolutely get another head coaching job in either college or the pros because he is talented.

I can name at least 10 coaches that were way worse than Marrone that keep getting Head coaching jobs and opportunities.

The pros had chances to hire him this year and they passed. Let's see if he gets another chance. The Bills sure seem delighted to see him gone.

 

[anomander]

the last two years? SS first year was better than anything Marrone did. He went 7-6 against real competition. Last year he didn't have a qb. due to injuries. Marrone had one that he inherited. A pro. I think I will wait 4 years to see what SS has done. Apples to Apples

I don't know just from the eye test the 2012 team was significantly better then the 2013 team. If you look at that 2013 year it wasn't pretty. We had to scrape and fight for 6 wins, and we had 4 losses where we got absolutely lambasted. The games we did win were rock fights against teams who were totally depleted by injuries (Maryland, WF, NCST). Not to mention Shafer's first year should have been better then Marrone's. Shafer didn't inherit a total rebuild, he was handed a team that had gone to a bowl game in 2 of the 3 years prior. I know I had a much much better feeling about Marrone going into year 3 then I do about Shafer.

 

[xc84]

The difference was Shafer was given the job because we wanted to keep things going from what Marrone had started to build. The 2 aren't comparable. Marrone did the heavy lifting part of the rebuild, Shafer was supposed to be taking us to the next level, not another rebuild.

Marrone made a dent. We still had a long ways to go. No matter who got the job, it's not a straight rising line.

 

[Chip]

He is Assistant Head Coach and OL Coach. Very different than being just an OL coach and I am sure hugely different in pay scale as well.

What message was so loudly delivered to Marrone??...that you can leave a job and get paid $4 mil for that job AND at the same time get a new job? That message was...hire yourself a great agent, that was loud and clear.

So I guess it worked out exactly as he hoped? I'm one of those people who thought he wanted to leave the Bills job and take another head coaching job. But this board knows him much better than I do.

 

[xc84]

So I guess it worked out exactly as he hoped? I'm one of those people who thought he wanted to leave the Bills job and take another head coaching job. But this board knows him much better than I do.

I think he wanted to leave. I think he wanted to get another head coaching job. He was 1 of 2. He'll be a head coach again and he made out like a bandit leaving.

 

[xc84]

The pros had chances to hire him this year and they passed. Let's see if he gets another chance. The Bills sure seem delighted to see him gone.

Sure they were. They all acted like jilted lovers. If they were happy to see him go they would have not bashed the guy like they did.

 

[CuseOnly]

The pros had chances to hire him this year and they passed. Let's see if he gets another chance. The Bills sure seem delighted to see him gone.

He will get other chances...even if it is as a head coach in college...

Chan Gailey
Charlie Weiss
Ty Willingham
Tony Sparano
Dave Wannstedt
Mike Leach
on and on...all known names, got 3-4 chances as head coach

EDIT: The Bill are a fine organization that has a history of hiring and keeping exactly 1 good head coach Marv Levy. Beyond that they have nothing.

 

[TheCusian]

Shafer had a worse year than Marrone ever had, and he was picking up from 10 wins in four years prior, not 8 wins in the year prior. You want to compare year two? Here's the point, Gross and the PTB 'ed up with Marrone. They had a guy that was getting the job done and instead of working around his maintenance issues they failed to meet their commitments and pissed him off enough that he walked.

For the record - no one has worked around his maintenance issues longer than us.

 

[TheCusian]

Also - Marrone can be both a guy who dug us out of a deep hole AND a hard guy to employ.

 

[RF2044]

I don't know just from the eye test the 2012 team was significantly better then the 2013 team. If you look at that 2013 year it wasn't pretty. We had to scrape and fight for 6 wins, and we had 4 losses where we got absolutely lambasted. The games we did win were rock fights against teams who were totally depleted by injuries (Maryland, WF, NCST). Not to mention Shafer's first year should have been better then Marrone's. Shafer didn't inherit a total rebuild, he was handed a team that had gone to a bowl game in 2 of the 3 years prior. I know I had a much much better feeling about Marrone going into year 3 then I do about Shafer.

True. But on top of a new coaching staff coming in, we also had to replace all of the key principals on offense in 2013 [Nassib, Lemon, Sales, Pugh].

The 2013 team's record was as impressive as the 2012 team's, IMO. The 2012 team was capable of more, but blew opportunities to win coming out of the gate. The 2013 won every 50/50 game except for one.

 

[rrlbees]

Management should have and could have kept Marrone in my opinion.

And Marrone could have done the parts of the job he knew about when he was hired instead of burning bridges and loathing those parts of the job because they were harder than he expected.

He didn't want anything to do with fundraising. He didn't want to glad hand. He didn't want to suck up with the big hitters. All things he was aware of when he took the job. He ended up hating that stuff. He also knew one of his jobs was putting fannies in the seats. He admitted as much to me. But that again entailed engaging people, not just winning. He hated it.

He was Nostradamus though. As he said to me at the Jim and Juli Ball in April the year he got hired, he'd be gone in 4 years if he didn't win and get the fans back like they used to be.

 

[PhatOrange]

True. But on top of a new coaching staff coming in, we also had to replace all of the key principals on offense in 2013 [Nassib, Lemon, Sales, Pugh].

The 2013 team's record was as impressive as the 2012 team's, IMO. The 2012 team was capable of more, but blew opportunities to win coming out of the gate. The 2013 won every 50/50 game except for one.

Yup...and IMO the nassib, sales, lemon, Pugh senior year team completely under achieved. They should have won more games. Losses to northwestern, Minny, Rutgers, Cincy were all winnable and games Marrone should have won.

 

[GoSU96]

Also - Marrone can be both a guy who dug us out of a deep hole AND a hard guy to employ.

Yeah, reward the first, deal with the second.

 

[GoSU96]

the last two years? SS first year was better than anything Marrone did. He went 7-6 against real competition. Last year he didn't have a qb. due to injuries. Marrone had one that he inherited. A pro. I think I will wait 4 years to see what SS has done. Apples to Apples

You think the 2013 schedule was more difficult? Get a clue.

He didn't inherit a pro QB, he inherited a Philly Prep school Wing-T QB with accuracy issues. They developed him into a potential pro.

 

[GoSU96]

Yup...and IMO the nassib, sales, lemon, Pugh senior year team completely under achieved. They should have won more games. Losses to northwestern, Minny, Rutgers, Cincy were all winnable and games Marrone should have won.

I agree, they were about two games under where they should have ended up.

Not sure that's an indictment of job they did improving the program.

 

[TheCusian]

Yeah, reward the first, deal with the second.

He left us because he didn't like doing his job.

 

[GoSU96]

He left us because he didn't like doing his job.

He doesn't like coaching football?

 

[GoSU96]

And Marrone could have done the parts of the job he knew about when he was hired instead of burning bridges and loathing those parts of the job because they were harder than he expected.

He didn't want anything to do with fundraising. He didn't want to glad hand. He didn't want to suck up with the big hitters. All things he was aware of when he took the job. He ended up hating that stuff. He also knew one of his jobs was putting fannies in the seats. He admitted as much to me. But that again entailed engaging people, not just winning. He hated it.

He was Nostradamus though. As he said to me at the Jim and Juli Ball in April the year he got hired, he'd be gone in 4 years if he didn't win and get the fans back like they used to be.

He was highly successful at what he was brought into do. If that peripheral stuff was getting in the way, find somebody else to do, or set it up so it has minimal impact. That's called managing.

 

[dollarbill44]

It sure ain't Rainbows and Ponies.

I get the feeling that is how you look at everything. You probably say the same about rainbows and ponies.

 

[OrangeAl]

He doesn't like coaching football?

I have the feeling he loves coaching football but hates everything else that goes with head coaching. OL coach is probably pure fun for him.

 

[CusefanATL]

Early 2013

Football team coming off of best season in over a decade. Management screwed up the coaching situation but what the hell, Marrone was a jerk and Shafer is a true "college coach". We are going to lock the doors and kick ass.

Basketball goes to the final four. Disappointing performance vs Michigan, but all in all a great year.

Lax - makes it to the championship game, jumps out to an early lead but can't compete on face offs. 16-4 is still an excellent year.

HEY!! We're going to the ACC!!!

Two years later, Yeesh.

The pride of the Orange Nation rests on the shoulder of Ben Williams, Randy Staats knee, T Hunts leg, and Chris McCullough's knee, oops, scratch that, Kaleb Joseph's diminutive frame and Trevor Cooney's dead-eye accuracy, and the tender mercies of the NCAA.

Rough seas for the new AD.

Remember 2009?

Bball team just lost Flynn, Devo, and Harris -----> 30-5 and brought us back to national elite for a 5 yr stretch for 1st time since 80's
Football team went 4-8 ------> 8-5 1st bowl win in a decade

things change