How to Fix SU Football?

[SUDadx2]

I believe those numbers are projected annual value and not necessarily actual NIL money received.

Understood. Is there a site where we can actually see how much NIL $ is out there, or at least how much is available to SU athletes?

I guess the bottom line is that NIL $ sure complicates the concept of how you fix SU football or how can we recruit better.

We certainly need to recruit better. If we can't compete on the recruiting trails, then how can we expect to compete on the field? As I wrote, we aren't even recruiting the same players as the top programs. Too often we consider it a win when we beat out MAC schools for a kid's commitment. Our 18 commits combined don't have a single offer (or didn't when they committed) from the top ACC programs: FSU, Clemson, UNC, Miami or Louisville.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Understood. Is there a site where we can actually see how much NIL $ is out there, or at least how much is available to SU athletes?

I haven’t seen one yet. Lot of schools are being hush hush. And then others are loudly boosting too. I can see why the traditional powers wouldn’t want to advertise. Why let their competitors know what to shoot for? I think there’s a reason why Miami and Texas A&M talk a lot vs Alabama.

 

[Dr. Bill]

Understood. Is there a site where we can actually see how much NIL $ is out there, or at least how much is available to SU athletes?

I guess the bottom line is that NIL $ sure complicates the concept of how you fix SU football or how can we recruit better.

We certainly need to recruit better. If we can't compete on the recruiting trails, then how can we expect to compete on the field? As I wrote, we aren't even recruiting the same players as the top programs. Too often we consider it a win when we beat out MAC schools for a kid's commitment. Our 18 commits combined don't have a single offer (or didn't when they committed) from the top ACC programs: FSU, Clemson, UNC, Miami or Louisville.

We can't go head to head for a recruit against any of the schools you named and win, let's be real. Until we produce better product, we have to recruit against the lower tier ACC schools and the MAC...Sorry, but true.

 

[GoSU96]

Spend NIL bringing offensive linemen here and retaining the handful of high end guys that emerge.

SU isn’t going to win a bidding war if a kid wants to play for the highest bidder, but otherwise you can sell opportunity, the Duce story, and the growing number of guys in the league to kids who are thinking of leaving that you want to keep.

Combination of second chance U and money ball can be successful. Get the roster to the point where the win totals bounce between 8 and 10 instead of 5 and 7.

 

[OburgOrange]

We can't go head to head for a recruit against any of the schools you named and win, let's be real. Until we produce better product, we have to recruit against the lower tier ACC schools and the MAC...Sorry, but true.

Very true. Our recruiting ratings are always the lowest, or close to the lowest in the ACC, year after year after year. Portal is the only hope because recruiting and NIL ain’t doing it

 

[SUDadx2]

We can't go head to head for a recruit against any of the schools you named and win, let's be real. Until we produce better product, we have to recruit against the lower tier ACC schools and the MAC...Sorry, but true.

Very true. Our recruiting ratings are always the lowest, or close to the lowest in the ACC, year after year after year. Portal is the only hope because recruiting and NIL ain’t doing it

Recruiting, NIL and the portal go hand in hand.

We need to go after bigger fish. I think we can go head-to-head with some of the big programs; SU is a good university, we can offer an opportunity to play early, you will get good exposure playing against ACC teams, we run a clean program and we do put players in the league. No, we are not going to win every recruiting battle. But do you really believe we can't win one out of ten? The problem is we aren't even offering those players.

The portal is so active. There's a good chance some of those players you took a shot on and lost when the kid came out of high school will be in the portal. If you build a positive relationship with those kids, you will have an advantage when those players hit the portal. Plant seeds and play the long game. Sell the school, not the coach. The school will always be here.

The portal is just more recruiting. Players are looking for playing time, NIL if they can get it and some are looking for a good school (or grad program). SU offers all of those things. For SU I think the portal is a good opportunity to rebuild. Unfortunately, when we ID an under-rated high school player and that player develops with SU we risk the chance that the player will hit the portal looking for more NIL and or more exposure; Chestnut, Carter, and Geer come to mind. While players like Johnson, Clark, Shrader, Del Rio Wilson, Davis and Wholabaugh come her via the portal and stay a while. Like all recruiting, high school or portal recruiting, not everyone pans out.

We have to do something different if the program is ever going to get over the 5-7 wins a year hump.

 

[orange44]

Recruiting, NIL and the portal go hand in hand.

We need to go after bigger fish. I think we can go head-to-head with some of the big programs; SU is a good university, we can offer an opportunity to play early, you will get good exposure playing against ACC teams, we run a clean program and we do put players in the league. No, we are not going to win every recruiting battle. But do you really believe we can't win one out of ten? The problem is we aren't even offering those players.

The portal is so active. There's a good chance some of those players you took a shot on and lost when the kid came out of high school will be in the portal. If you build a positive relationship with those kids, you will have an advantage when those players hit the portal. Plant seeds and play the long game. Sell the school, not the coach. The school will always be here.

The portal is just more recruiting. Players are looking for playing time, NIL if they can get it and some are looking for a good school (or grad program). SU offers all of those things. For SU I think the portal is a good opportunity to rebuild. Unfortunately, when we ID an under-rated high school player and that player develops with SU we risk the chance that the player will hit the portal looking for more NIL and or more exposure; Chestnut, Carter, and Geer come to mind. While players like Johnson, Clark, Shrader, Del Rio Wilson, Davis and Wholabaugh come her via the portal and stay a while. Like all recruiting, high school or portal recruiting, not everyone pans out.

We have to do something different if the program is ever going to get over the 5-7 wins a year hump.

Well said!

 

[AAM62]

There’s only one answer and it’s millions of NIL investment. Without it, we may as well relegate.

 

[syracuse95]

This isn't directed at any one poster, but more a comment on the fact that there seems to be widespread misunderstanding of how NIL can be used and who is responsible for it.

1) The university itself is prohibited from and does not get involved in soliciting, collecting, managing, or disbursing NIL funds. All NIL money has to flow through collectives that are set up, run, and administered by third parties. So when people say "Syracuse should do X with NIL", that has to mean "boosters/fans need to do X with NIL". The university can't be involved in it, at all. What funds get collected, how much gets distributed, and to whom it gets distributed, is not determined or influenced by the University.
2) NIL can't be used as an enticement for recruiting. You can't promise a recruit an NIL deal for signing a LOI, and no unsigned athletes can be guaranteed an NIL deal.

Before I get put on blast, no I'm not naive enough to think this stuff doesn't happen. But if you're mad at the University, its athletic dept., or its coaches for not being better at the NIL game, your anger is misplaced. It's not their job, and they're not allowed to be involved. I know that it's under consideration to let the schools get more involved, but as of right now those are the rules.

 

[GoSU96]

There’s only one answer and it’s millions of NIL investment. Without it, we may as well relegate.

That’s over the top. The team needs focused investment on the oline.

It’s the biggest thing holding team back from going toe to toe week in and week out with the teams they’ve lost to the last three seasons.

The line is adequate to beat average and worse.

 

[SUDadx2]

This isn't directed at any one poster, but more a comment on the fact that there seems to be widespread misunderstanding of how NIL can be used and who is responsible for it.

1) The university itself is prohibited from and does not get involved in soliciting, collecting, managing, or disbursing NIL funds. All NIL money has to flow through collectives that are set up, run, and administered by third parties. So when people say "Syracuse should do X with NIL", that has to mean "boosters/fans need to do X with NIL". The university can't be involved in it, at all. What funds get collected, how much gets distributed, and to whom it gets distributed, is not determined or influenced by the University.
2) NIL can't be used as an enticement for recruiting. You can't promise a recruit an NIL deal for signing a LOI, and no unsigned athletes can be guaranteed an NIL deal.

Before I get put on blast, no I'm not naive enough to think this stuff doesn't happen. But if you're mad at the University, its athletic dept., or its coaches for not being better at the NIL game, your anger is misplaced. It's not their job, and they're not allowed to be involved. I know that it's under consideration to let the schools get more involved, but as of right now those are the rules.

Understood. Boosters/Fans need to step up IF they want things to change in the football program.

But booster/fans stepping up to create more NIL opportunities goes hand in hand with the football program recruiting better players. Why put more money into NIL if the football program isn't going to go after bigger fish?

As I wrote in a previous post, the landscape in college football has changed and will continue to change. Some programs will evolve and other will perish.

Schools eye rule changes, more NIL involvement

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Recruiting, NIL and the portal go hand in hand.

We need to go after bigger fish. I think we can go head-to-head with some of the big programs; SU is a good university, we can offer an opportunity to play early, you will get good exposure playing against ACC teams, we run a clean program and we do put players in the league. No, we are not going to win every recruiting battle. But do you really believe we can't win one out of ten? The problem is we aren't even offering those players.

The portal is so active. There's a good chance some of those players you took a shot on and lost when the kid came out of high school will be in the portal. If you build a positive relationship with those kids, you will have an advantage when those players hit the portal. Plant seeds and play the long game. Sell the school, not the coach. The school will always be here.

The portal is just more recruiting. Players are looking for playing time, NIL if they can get it and some are looking for a good school (or grad program). SU offers all of those things. For SU I think the portal is a good opportunity to rebuild. Unfortunately, when we ID an under-rated high school player and that player develops with SU we risk the chance that the player will hit the portal looking for more NIL and or more exposure; Chestnut, Carter, and Geer come to mind. While players like Johnson, Clark, Shrader, Del Rio Wilson, Davis and Wholabaugh come her via the portal and stay a while. Like all recruiting, high school or portal recruiting, not everyone pans out.

We have to do something different if the program is ever going to get over the 5-7 wins a year hump.

You're first paragraph is exactly what a coach would do with zero understanding of how Syracuse football needs to operate. Almost reminds me of D Gross when he showed up. You need recruit and develop your talent and use the NIL to retain the kids that make a difference. You will always lose some kids, happens everywhere not just Syracuse. Hit the portal with guys from bigger schools looking for playing time, and sure you will swing here and have some busts but kids after transferring once usually aren't leaving again until they graduate.


Taking on the factories is 100% a recipe for disaster. Just won't happen or work

 

[Dinkyspond]

He had Jawhar on the team and couldn't see his talent. The guy could win the Heisman.

He started until he got injured in 2020, he only played 3 games that season. He gets replaced by Tucker who ran nearly for 700 in his 1st year. Jordan transfers, not Dino’s fault, he made Jordan RB1, he got hurt and transferred. Maybe he didn’t want to be behind Tucker. I heard a rumor Dino wanted to move him to the slot and he didn’t want to do that.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

This isn't directed at any one poster, but more a comment on the fact that there seems to be widespread misunderstanding of how NIL can be used and who is responsible for it.

1) The university itself is prohibited from and does not get involved in soliciting, collecting, managing, or disbursing NIL funds. All NIL money has to flow through collectives that are set up, run, and administered by third parties. So when people say "Syracuse should do X with NIL", that has to mean "boosters/fans need to do X with NIL". The university can't be involved in it, at all. What funds get collected, how much gets distributed, and to whom it gets distributed, is not determined or influenced by the University.
2) NIL can't be used as an enticement for recruiting. You can't promise a recruit an NIL deal for signing a LOI, and no unsigned athletes can be guaranteed an NIL deal.

Before I get put on blast, no I'm not naive enough to think this stuff doesn't happen. But if you're mad at the University, its athletic dept., or its coaches for not being better at the NIL game, your anger is misplaced. It's not their job, and they're not allowed to be involved. I know that it's under consideration to let the schools get more involved, but as of right now those are the rules.

And this is my biggest beef with NIL.

Originally, the argument for it was based upon two things.#1- if a kid’s name is a on a tee shirt, he should get a piece of the sale. #2-colleges make tons of money on the backs of athletes, so the athletes should get a piece of that $$$.

So now, the colleges STILL make tons of money on the backs of the players but they still don’t have to share any of it. In fact, they CAN‘T share any of it. That burden is borne by fan and booster collectives. Some of the burden is borne by booster companies using the player on commercials.

While the college keeps all their $$$, fans and boosters are asked to pony up to pay the players. What a great deal…

 

[GoSU96]

You're first paragraph is exactly what a coach would do with zero understanding of how Syracuse football needs to operate. Almost reminds me D Gross when he showed up. You need recruit and develop your talent and use the NIL to retain the kids that make a difference. You will always lose some kids, happens everywhere not just Syracuse Hit the portal with guys from bigger schools looking for playing time, and sure you will swing here and have some busts but kids after transferring once usually aren't leaving again until they graduate.


Taking on the factories is 100% a recipe for disaster. Just won't happen or work

yep

 

[SUDadx2]

You're first paragraph is exactly what a coach would do with zero understanding of how Syracuse football needs to operate. Almost reminds me D Gross when he showed up. You need recruit and develop your talent and use the NIL to retain the kids that make a difference. You will always lose some kids, happens everywhere not just Syracuse Hit the portal with guys from bigger schools looking for playing time, and sure you will swing here and have some busts but kids after transferring once usually aren't leaving again until they graduate.


Taking on the factories is 100% a recipe for disaster. Just won't happen or work

Read a little closer. I’m not saying take on the factories head to head with the expectation of winning most or even half of those recruiting battles. I’m saying to target better players, yes the ones target by factory programs, with the expectation that you will win some (1 out of 10 is what I wrote) and to develop relationships with the understanding that some of those same players will be in the portal later. I am not saying to go toe to toe with the factories over a 5*. Be realistic. Target high 3* and 4* recruits - players better than what we currently target.

Refusing to “take on the factories” is a defeatist mentality. Comparing what is happening today to previous times is irrelevant because previous coaches didn’t have the portal or NIL.

How has the recipe of recruiting high school kids, developing them and connecting them to NIL to keep them worked so far? If it was working we wouldn’t need to “fix” anything.

We are not offering the top players out of high school. We can agree to disagree, but IMO that needs to change. We will never be able to compete with the top programs if we continue to recruit against MAC and Ivy League schools.

NONE of our current 18 commitments had an offer from a top program when we made our offer. Too many of our commitments have no other offers from a P5 school except Syracuse. Our aim is too low even for the recruit, develop and retain with NIL model. We can do better.


I just saw this. Hopefully it helps.

Syracuse Orange: Former SU player aims to raise $1M for NIL collective

Former Syracuse Orange football <a href=" " target="_blank" rel="noopener">defensive lineman Tyler Marona</...

insidetheloudhouse.com

 

[CousCuse]

He started until he got injured in 2020, he only played 3 games that season. He gets replaced by Tucker who ran nearly for 700 in his 1st year. Jordan transfers, not Dino’s fault, he made Jordan RB1, he got hurt and transferred. Maybe he didn’t want to be behind Tucker. I heard a rumor Dino wantrd to move him to the slot and he didn’t want to do that.

Tucker was a really excellent back too. Watching Jordan the other night against ND. you saw it.

 

[OburgOrange]

 

[OburgOrange]

 

[OburgOrange]

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Black is right and wrong, in addition to being completely biased.

The overall record isn't likely to change a whole lot. The talent isn't likely going to all of a sudden get better.

But the problem is the lack of accountability and game management lead to blow out losses. It is deflating for fans, donors, players, recruits, and kills our national perception. We are not a well coached team.

Going 7-5 while having a disciplined well coached team that gives you a dog fight in each loss is fun to cheer for. People can embrace the underdog.

Going 7-5 while getting blown out 3x a year in games the team seems to not show up or even care, gives one a hopeless feeling. It is impossible to be totally invested because you know you are setting yourself up for failure.

The records are the same but they are completely different. In that regard Dino is a complete failure. Interest in the program is pretty low despite our record being pretty decent outside of 2020.

 

[rvandersy]

Black is right and wrong, in addition to being completely biased.

The overall record isn't likely to change a whole lot. The talent isn't likely going to all of a sudden get better.

But the problem is the lack of accountability and game management lead to blow out losses. It is deflating for fans, donors, players, recruits, and kills our national perception. We are not a well coached team.

Going 7-5 while having a disciplined well coached team that gives you a dog fight in each loss is fun to cheer for. People can embrace the underdog.

Going 7-5 while getting blown out 3x a year in games the team seems to not show up or even care, gives one a hopeless feeling. It is impossible to be totally invested because you know you are setting yourself up for failure.

The records are the same but they are completely different. In that regard Dino is a complete failure. Interest in the program is pretty low despite our record being pretty decent outside of 2020.

To that point. Maybe the teams they're getting blown out by are that much better. Saying they're not showing up is an easy way for the players and fans to excuse these blowouts. Easy to put the blame on the coach. TCU got blown out in last years championship. I'm sure they all showed up to play. Again sometimes the teams are that much better.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

To that point. Maybe the teams they're getting blown out by are that much better. Saying they're not showing up is an easy way for the players and fans to excuse these blowouts. Easy to put the blame on the coach. TCU got blown out in last years championship. I'm sure they all showed up to play. Again sometimes the teams are that much better.

Blowouts happen. It is part of the game. But we routinely do not show up. Even against teams that are not good. There have been plenty of blowouts to teams we should be on par with.

2023
Down 27-0 at half vs UNC. None of the prior teams UNC played were beaten that badly. The game was over at half. Why did the other teams they played thus put up more of a fight?

2022
Trailed by 21 at home to Notre Dame who was 4-3 going into the game. It isn't like they were beating up everyone else before or after. So why us?

FSU we were at home and the game was over at half. They were a good team but they also lost to teams that were that good and had closer games against mediocre teams. So why did we get blown out when others did not?

2021
Louisville who was 4-5 going into the game was up 35-3 at HALF!!!! Can't say it was a good team here.

NC State down 28-7 at half. They were a decent team that won a bunch of close games. For us they had a laugher.

2020
We were down 35-14 at home to LIBERTY!

We were down 38-7 at home to Wake. They were 4-5 that year and had no easy Ws besides us.

We were down 20-0 at half to Louisville. They were 2-6 going into our game. I don't expect to win any of these but can we still have a chance going into the 2nd half? We put up a better fight against...

Notre Dame that year, we trailed 38-14 late 3rd Q. They were a good team can't blame here.

2019
Maryland we were down 42-13 at half. They went on to lose 9 of their next 10 games including Temple.

Clemson no shame in losing bigly. But can we be a tad closer than 24-6 early 3rd Q?

FSU trailed 35-3 going into the 4th Q. This is an FSU team that went 6-7 that year.

BC, at home mind you, we trailed 44-20 at half and 51-20 halfway through the 3rd Q. A team that also ended the year 6-7.

Louisville was 21-3 after 1Q, 28-10 at half, 49-27 after 3 Qs. They had a 7-5 regular season, so why did they have such an easy time?

2018
ND outclassed us and we lost Dungey. But couldn't we muster better than 20-0 at half or 29-0 after 3 Qs?

2017
Wake not sure to count this game. We led by 17 in the first half. But then we were at scored at home 43-5 the rest of the game. Another 7-5 regular season team. I don't care if you have 11 guys from the Fine lot playing, 43-5 at home should never happen.

Louisville 35-3 at half and 56-10 final. This is a team that went 4-4 in the ACC and 8-4 for the regular season. I don't expect to win without our QB but can we put some fight up?

Trailed 42-14 early 4th Q at home to BC! They were 6-5 (3-4) going into our game. Any HC who can't put up a fight at home against the Dazzler should have no one behind him.

2016
Louisville (again) was actually a good team this season. 28-7 after 1Q and 62-28 final for an SU home game though?

USF was another good team. The game was Wake like in that we were up 17-0 and then were outscored at home 45-3 the rest of the way. Should that really happen?

Halfway through the 3rd Q we trailed 47-27 to a Notre Dame team that went 4-8 that year.

Clemson no shame in losing or not playing them close. But was 30-0 at half and 54-0 really representative of the talent gap?

FSU was good but 42-14 after 3 Qs in the Dome?

Halfway through the 3rd Q we trailed 49-21 to Pitt and gave up 76 points! We did cut the lead to 15 a few times to be fair. They had some good Ws too but were only 8-5. How do you trail by 28 at any point and give up that many points?


On top of all of the above we had the unprepared Wake wind game and the Middle Tennessee (Shafer) home loss. Why should fans have to endure all of this?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

2020 did happen but if one wants to not count it because of the 10 game ACC schedule, only 1 OOC game, and Covid...

Dino is still 39-41 overall and 17-32 in the ACC. That should be pretty easy for another HC to replicate. And if said HC has the team not committing a bunch of penalties and not getting blown out every other loss, SU FB would be a lot more enjoyable.

And even if one wants to only count the post Covid years (recent history), Dino is still just 16-15 overall and 6-12 in the ACC. That is heading in the right direction?

IMO 3-3 the rest of the way is time to move on. How is 19-18 overall and 9-15 in the ACC reason for optimism when we lose at least our 2 biggest weapons on O next season?

 

[Deleted member 8116]

Does Cuse not have a billionaire who can throw some $$ around for a few 4 stars?