How to Fix SU Football?

[CousCuse]

Does Cuse not have a billionaire who can throw some $$ around for a few 4 stars?

Had one but he wasn't a good "face" for the university like the head football coach is.

 

[Deleted member 8116]

Had one but he wasn't a good "face" for the university like the head football coach is.

Gotcha. Thanks.

 

[Cuse181]

Black is right and wrong, in addition to being completely biased.

The overall record isn't likely to change a whole lot. The talent isn't likely going to all of a sudden get better.

But the problem is the lack of accountability and game management lead to blow out losses. It is deflating for fans, donors, players, recruits, and kills our national perception. We are not a well coached team.

Going 7-5 while having a disciplined well coached team that gives you a dog fight in each loss is fun to cheer for. People can embrace the underdog.

Going 7-5 while getting blown out 3x a year in games the team seems to not show up or even care, gives one a hopeless feeling. It is impossible to be totally invested because you know you are setting yourself up for failure.

The records are the same but they are completely different. In that regard Dino is a complete failure. Interest in the program is pretty low despite our record being pretty decent outside of 2020.

But no one embraced BC under addazio

 

[Dinkyspond]

Blowouts happen. It is part of the game. But we routinely do not show up. Even against teams that are not good. There have been plenty of blowouts to teams we should be on par with.

2023
Down 27-0 at half vs UNC. None of the prior teams UNC played were beaten that badly. The game was over at half. Why did the other teams they played thus put up more of a fight?

2022
Trailed by 21 at home to Notre Dame who was 4-3 going into the game. It isn't like they were beating up everyone else before or after. So why us?

FSU we were at home and the game was over at half. They were a good team but they also lost to teams that were that good and had closer games against mediocre teams. So why did we get blown out when others did not?

2021
Louisville who was 4-5 going into the game was up 35-3 at HALF!!!! Can't say it was a good team here.

NC State down 28-7 at half. They were a decent team that won a bunch of close games. For us they had a laugher.

2020
We were down 35-14 at home to LIBERTY!

We were down 38-7 at home to Wake. They were 4-5 that year and had no easy Ws besides us.

We were down 20-0 at half to Louisville. They were 2-6 going into our game. I don't expect to win any of these but can we still have a chance going into the 2nd half? We put up a better fight against...

Notre Dame that year, we trailed 38-14 late 3rd Q. They were a good team can't blame here.

2019
Maryland we were down 42-13 at half. They went on to lose 9 of their next 10 games including Temple.

Clemson no shame in losing bigly. But can we be a tad closer than 24-6 early 3rd Q?

FSU trailed 35-3 going into the 4th Q. This is an FSU team that went 6-7 that year.

BC, at home mind you, we trailed 44-20 at half and 51-20 halfway through the 3rd Q. A team that also ended the year 6-7.

Louisville was 21-3 after 1Q, 28-10 at half, 49-27 after 3 Qs. They had a 7-5 regular season, so why did they have such an easy time?

2018
ND outclassed us and we lost Dungey. But couldn't we muster better than 20-0 at half or 29-0 after 3 Qs?

2017
Wake not sure to count this game. We led by 17 in the first half. But then we were at scored at home 43-5 the rest of the game. Another 7-5 regular season team. I don't care if you have 11 guys from the Fine lot playing, 43-5 at home should never happen.

Louisville 35-3 at half and 56-10 final. This is a team that went 4-4 in the ACC and 8-4 for the regular season. I don't expect to win without our QB but can we put some fight up?

Trailed 42-14 early 4th Q at home to BC! They were 6-5 (3-4) going into our game. Any HC who can't put up a fight at home against the Dazzler should have no one behind him.

2016
Louisville (again) was actually a good team this season. 28-7 after 1Q and 62-28 final for an SU home game though?

USF was another good team. The game was Wake like in that we were up 17-0 and then were outscored at home 45-3 the rest of the way. Should that really happen?

Halfway through the 3rd Q we trailed 47-27 to a Notre Dame team that went 4-8 that year.

Clemson no shame in losing or not playing them close. But was 30-0 at half and 54-0 really representative of the talent gap?

FSU was good but 42-14 after 3 Qs in the Dome?

Halfway through the 3rd Q we trailed 49-21 to Pitt and gave up 76 points! We did cut the lead to 15 a few times to be fair. They had some good Ws too but were only 8-5. How do you trail by 28 at any point and give up that many points?


On top of all of the above we had the unprepared Wake wind game and the Middle Tennessee (Shafer) home loss. Why should fans have to endure all of this?

this is an excellent breakdown, very telling

 

[anomander]

The college football landscape has changed and continues to change making it more difficult for any school without a fanbase that has the ability to compete in the world on NIL to compete on the field.

The easy answer to “How do you fix SU football“ is to say recruit better. Although this is the truth, it’s not that simple. NIL and the elimination of the 25-player initial counter rule for football have made recruiting much more difficult for smaller schools. Big programs with big NIL operations will be able to attract better players initially, attract better players from the portal and prevent their current players from leaving for another school. The only players leaving the big programs will be players the program wants to leave. Second string players are not going to leave their current school where they are making 30K in NIL $ for a first-string opportunity that only comes with 20K in NIL $. Programs with smaller NIL support will be challenged to initially attract top talent out of high school, challenged to attract top talent out of the portal and challenged to hang on to their own player who develop into a good player.

And the ability to offer more than 25 new scholarships each year only means the top programs will be able to push more players who appear to be under-performing out of their program.

NCAA council permanently drops new-player limit for football - ESPN


Syracuse already doesn’t recruit well against the top tier programs in the ACC. Heck, we don’t even seem to try. Syracuse has 18 commitments for the 2024 class. Of the 18 commitments, none of them, zero, had an offer from Florida State, Clemson, North Carolina, or Miami when they committed to Syracuse. Conversely, of the 87 players in the 2023 class who have already committed to Florida State, Clemson, North Carolina, or Miami, only 13 had an offer from Syracuse. SU had only offered 13 of the 87 players who have committed to the top programs in the ACC. We are not even recruiting the same players. The players we want, the top programs don’t seem to want. And 85% of the players who have committed to the top programs weren’t even offered a scholarship by Syracuse. Posters on this forum applaud each commitment and often post how each kid is a great get. Then the same posters complain when the Syracuse team isn’t competitive against those top programs on Saturday.

In my opinion, Syracuse should be offering and developing relationships with every top kid out there. Of course, we aren’t going to sign them all, but could we sign one or two a year? And, if we established relationship with the player when he was in high school, we may have a better chance with the same player if they hit the portal down the line.


NIL is crazy and it is affecting the NFL. I never would have thought a college player would be able to generate the kind of money that is out there. Top players are making millions of dollars a year. Both Caleb Williams and Shedeur Sanders are talking about delaying their entry into the NFL and staying in college, so they don’t have to take a pay cut. Of course, when players of this caliber decide to stay in school another year it allows the school to continue to stockpile talent because they only have to push a lesser player out to create another scholarship for a player they want.

Shedeur Sanders Could Make $10 Million In NIL If He Stays In College (prosportsnation.com)

RUMOR: Caleb Williams Has List Of 5 NFL Teams He'll Play For (totalprosports.com)



Syracuse is trying. There are a few collectives out there for Syracuse athletes, but it’s unclear how much money is really available for top players. And it appears as though the 315 Collective may no longer be active.

According to the On3 website (if you know a better source please share), some ACC programs are very active in NIL.

• Miami; > $7 million valuation for 50 players.
• Clemson; > $5 million valuation for 38 payers.
• Florida State; > $4.5 million valuation for 48 players.
• North Carolina; > $3.8 million for 13 players.
• Syracuse; < $1 million.

Without serious NIL support, I don’t see how Syracuse can compete with the top programs in the ACC.

NIL Valuations are primarily based on three elements; performance (athletic results -wins, yards gained, TD’s scored etc…), influence (social media strength) and exposure (market and media). Skill position players have some control of their performance numbers with QB’s having the most control.

About On3 NIL Valuation, Brand Value, Roster Value - On3


With that said, I would suggest Syracuse direct a large portion of the NIL $ that is available to offensive linemen. Offensive lineman seems to be making less NIL $ than other positions, but they also could have the most impact on a team’s success. The better the offensive line, the better the team usually is. We could get more bang for our collective buck by prioritizing linemen. Skill players will be able to generate NIL $ with their performances (and a social media presence).


What kind of NIL money is available to Syracuse?

Well done!!

 

[anomander]

You're first paragraph is exactly what a coach would do with zero understanding of how Syracuse football needs to operate. Almost reminds me of D Gross when he showed up. You need recruit and develop your talent and use the NIL to retain the kids that make a difference. You will always lose some kids, happens everywhere not just Syracuse. Hit the portal with guys from bigger schools looking for playing time, and sure you will swing here and have some busts but kids after transferring once usually aren't leaving again until they graduate.


Taking on the factories is 100% a recipe for disaster. Just won't happen or work

I would rather see us go after established, upperclassman from the G5/FCS level that have a chip on their shoulder and a history of performance. We can’t keep replacing a handful of our proven athletes with a freshman that hasn’t played at a “Bigger” school for one reason or another. Guys like Isiah Johnson, and potentially Joe More could be more of a sweet spot for us.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I would rather see us go after established, upperclassman from the G5/FCS level that have a chip on their shoulder and a history of performance. We can’t keep replacing a handful of our proven athletes with a freshman that hasn’t played at a “Bigger” school for one reason or another. Guys like Isiah Johnson, and potentially Joe More could be more of a sweet spot for us.

Yeah that would be great too. The problem is a lot of these guys are currently getting scooped up by bigger programs.

At the end of the day, the only way to truly fix Syracuse football would be to hire an absolutely great head coach with a great understanding of how to recruit at Syracuse (Freshman and portal guys), develop talent and navigate all the new portal opportunities. Coach must be innovative with scheme and smart enough on how to evolve as times change. I am not 100% set that it has to be an offensive coach either but somebody smart enough to figure it out and recruit better at O Line and D line as well. I think it's pretty evident that this is clearly the weakest link right now.

Then after a few years Syracuse will somehow have to figure out how to retain this certain head coach. At this point the University and the boosters big, medium or small would have to step their game as well. To me that is the only way and this coach would have to be at least a 9.5 out of 10. Have to be unique individual in several areas if coach actually stays but $ always helps

I honestly don't know who that is or who would even be up for the task. I see people throw names around but none look good enough to me. Currently, I don't think anybody knows, you would have to take a huge risk with this type of hire. Have to be like a Chip Kelly from 15-17 years ago who nobody even heard of before he left New Hampshire and went to be the OC at Oregon. But that's what it would take, IMO and that is a daunting task to say the least may not even be possible at this point. Have to be Lincoln Riley type when he was the OC at East Carolina before he blew up at Oklahoma. A head coach from FCS type.

All that said, I then think you could win 8-9 games on a consistent basis. Maybe a drop off once in a while and maybe a playoff team once in a while (12 team) but it would take a special special head coach to do it.

All that said, Dino wins 7 he will be here for at least a couple more years and I don't have any issue with it.

 

[orangencpolice]

One or two bad calls did not "fix" the UNC game against us.
We were outmatched, and got our butts kicked for 60 minutes.

It’s not losing games. Even the top tier programs lose games. They are called upsets and they make college football exciting. The problem is getting blown out by by a #14 ranked UNC team, along with all of the other blow outs we have succumbed to by Clemson, Miami and other middle to top tier programs that we can’t compete with.

It is embarrassing and no fan wants to watch it.

 

[Newhouser]

Yeah that would be great too. The problem is a lot of these guys are currently getting scooped up by bigger programs.

At the end of the day, the only way to truly fix Syracuse football would be to hire an absolutely great head coach with a great understanding of how to recruit at Syracuse (Freshman and portal guys), develop talent and navigate all the new portal opportunities. Coach must be innovative with scheme and smart enough on how to evolve as times change. I am not 100% set that it has to be an offensive coach either but somebody smart enough to figure it out and recruit better at O Line and D line as well. I think it's pretty evident that this is clearly the weakest link right now.

Then after a few years Syracuse will somehow have to figure out how to retain this certain head coach. At this point the University and the boosters big, medium or small would have to step their game as well. To me that is the only way and this coach would have to be at least a 9.5 out of 10. Have to be unique individual in several areas if coach actually stays but $ always helps

I honestly don't know who that is or who would even be up for the task. I see people throw names around but none look good enough to me. Currently, I don't think anybody knows, you would have to take a huge risk with this type of hire. Have to be like a Chip Kelly from 15-17 years ago who nobody even heard of before he left New Hampshire and went to be the OC at Oregon. But that's what it would take, IMO and that is a daunting task to say the least may not even be possible at this point. Have to be Lincoln Riley type when he was the OC at East Carolina before he blew up at Oklahoma. A head coach from FCS type.

All that said, I then think you could win 8-9 games on a consistent basis. Maybe a drop off once in a while and maybe a playoff team once in a while (12 team) but it would take a special special head coach to do it.

All that said, Dino wins 7 he will be here for at least a couple more years and I don't have any issue with it.

I agree 7 wins gets Dino a couple of more years. For me, with this schedule and the dearth of good teams in the league this year....7 wins seems underachieving, and further cements my belief that the school wants to do just good enough to appease fans and keep cashing ACC checks.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Yeah that would be great too. The problem is a lot of these guys are currently getting scooped up by bigger programs.

At the end of the day, the only way to truly fix Syracuse football would be to hire an absolutely great head coach with a great understanding of how to recruit at Syracuse (Freshman and portal guys), develop talent and navigate all the new portal opportunities. Coach must be innovative with scheme and smart enough on how to evolve as times change. I am not 100% set that it has to be an offensive coach either but somebody smart enough to figure it out and recruit better at O Line and D line as well. I think it's pretty evident that this is clearly the weakest link right now.

Then after a few years Syracuse will somehow have to figure out how to retain this certain head coach. At this point the University and the boosters big, medium or small would have to step their game as well. To me that is the only way and this coach would have to be at least a 9.5 out of 10. Have to be unique individual in several areas if coach actually stays but $ always helps

I honestly don't know who that is or who would even be up for the task. I see people throw names around but none look good enough to me. Currently, I don't think anybody knows, you would have to take a huge risk with this type of hire. Have to be like a Chip Kelly from 15-17 years ago who nobody even heard of before he left New Hampshire and went to be the OC at Oregon. But that's what it would take, IMO and that is a daunting task to say the least may not even be possible at this point. Have to be Lincoln Riley type when he was the OC at East Carolina before he blew up at Oklahoma. A head coach from FCS type.

All that said, I then think you could win 8-9 games on a consistent basis. Maybe a drop off once in a while and maybe a playoff team once in a while (12 team) but it would take a special special head coach to do it.

All that said, Dino wins 7 he will be here for at least a couple more years and I don't have any issue with it.

Outside the box I think getting an SU guy as HC who is more of a CEO type and willing to give SU a slight discount while allowing real money to be spent on an OC and DC. Additionally trying to get as many SU assts.

Ask a guy like Moose. Maybe Donnie. Outten?

 

[Bayside44]

It’s not losing games. Even the top tier programs lose games. They are called upsets and they make college football exciting. The problem is getting blown out by by a #14 ranked UNC team, along with all of the other blow outs we have succumbed to by Clemson, Miami and other middle to top tier programs that we can’t compete with.

It is embarrassing and no fan wants to watch it.

We don't succumb to blow outs by Clemson and we've played Miami all of one time in this conference, and it was a competitive game.

Go runs these stats better than me on wins and losses and who've we've played.

 

[orange79]

Outside the box I think getting an SU guy as HC who is more of a CEO type and willing to give SU a slight discount while allowing real money to be spent on an OC and DC. Additionally trying to get as many SU assts.

Ask a guy like Moose. Maybe Donnie. Outten?

So, you really want someone who has never held a meaningful position as a coach (excluding Outten) to become the (financially discounted) head coach of a P5 program just because they went there? Is that your argument?

 

[Bayside44]

So, you really want someone who has never held a meaningful position as a coach (excluding Outten) to become the (financially discounted) head coach of a P5 program just because they went there? Is that your argument?

Completely nuts.

Old players are almost the funniest - they walk around wondering where all the kids from RFA and other local schools are.

 

[MSOrange]

So, you really want someone who has never held a meaningful position as a coach (excluding Outten) to become the (financially discounted) head coach of a P5 program just because they went there? Is that your argument?

Agree. I don't see Donnie or Moose being our Deion, if that's what he was going for. Although Deion had coaching experience before Colorado of course. Not sure what he was going for with those names.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Outside the box I think getting an SU guy as HC who is more of a CEO type and willing to give SU a slight discount while allowing real money to be spent on an OC and DC. Additionally trying to get as many SU assts.

Ask a guy like Moose. Maybe Donnie. Outten?

That's one route for sure, just think the head coach needs be the brains behind the whole operation. Figure head won't get it done, IMO

yeah I think we need somebody much smarter than that and you have to identify him very early. Huge gamble Just my opinion.

I mean Chip Kelly has the #1 rated defense (or damn close) in football right now. Dude is smarter than your typical head coach. Looks at the game differently than most as do many of the great coaches who are more lab rat types.

Only thing that will cure a lot of these problems is winning and the only way Syracuse wins games is with a plan that is far more innovative that others. Hire leopold before UB did type move. Huge risk and might be a disaster but could be an absolute home run. Talking about a real gamble way outside the box type thinking.

 

[Cuse181]

That's one route for sure, just think the head coach needs be the brains behind the whole operation. Figure head won't get it done, IMO

yeah I think we need somebody much smarter than that and you have to identify him very early. Huge gamble Just my opinion.

I mean Chip Kelly has the #1 rated defense (or damn close) in football right now. Dude is smarter than your typical head coach. Looks at the game differently than most as do many of the great coaches who are more lab rat types.

Only thing that will cure a lot of these problems is winning and the only way Syracuse wins games is with a plan that is far more innovative that others. Hire leopold before UB did type move. Huge risk and might be a disaster but could be an absolute home run

Chip's genius took a long time to show at UCLA. If syracuse is going to make an "innovative" move, then hopefully the fan base knows we are in for a long reset period. If it took UCLA 4 Years to finally show some success (and part of that 2021 success was a very bad PAC-12), then Syracuse is likely also in for a 4-5 year ride at least. If you want immediate results it might take an expensive hire on HC, OC and DC. No more "up and commers"

 

[HRE Otto IV]

So, you really want someone who has never held a meaningful position as a coach (excluding Outten) to become the (financially discounted) head coach of a P5 program just because they went there? Is that your argument?

CEO won’t be involved in play calling.

Moose is head of player personnel for USFL and knows FB. Not like he is a guy off the street.

McPherson is a leap but is a great leader.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

That's one route for sure, just think the head coach needs be the brains behind the whole operation. Figure head won't get it done, IMO

yeah I think we need somebody much smarter than that and you have to identify him very early. Huge gamble Just my opinion.

I mean Chip Kelly has the #1 rated defense (or damn close) in football right now. Dude is smarter than your typical head coach. Looks at the game differently than most as do many of the great coaches who are more lab rat types.

Only thing that will cure a lot of these problems is winning and the only way Syracuse wins games is with a plan that is far more innovative that others. Hire leopold before UB did type move. Huge risk and might be a disaster but could be an absolute home run. Talking about a real gamble way outside the box type thinking.

There is also the FCS route. Kelly started there. As did a bunch of other P5 coaches.

 

[Bayside44]

CEO won’t be involved in play calling.

Moose is head of player personnel for USFL and knows FB. Not like he is a guy off the street.

McPherson is a leap but is a great leader.

The guy lives the good life in Dallas and is 57 years old. I mean come on...

 

[Eric15]

Guys, we are 4-2, not 1-5. It‘s still possible we could have one of our better seasons of this century. The 2001 and 2018 teams started 4-2, as well.

I know UNC (who literally may be playoff level good) cleaned our clock, but there is a lot of football left to play.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The guy lives the good life in Dallas and is 57 years old. I mean come on...

So don’t ask? Not saying he would take the job. But why not ask?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Chip's genius took a long time to show at UCLA. If syracuse is going to make an "innovative" move, then hopefully the fan base knows we are in for a long reset period. If it took UCLA 4 Years to finally show some success (and part of that 2021 success was a very bad PAC-12), then Syracuse is likely also in for a 4-5 year ride at least. If you want immediate results it might take an expensive hire on HC, OC and DC. No more "up and commers"

I think 3-4 years is reasonable and that is what it will take. Nothing going to happen overnight. Immediate results won't happen nor will some high priced HC/OC/DC. That's just unrealistic. I think Marrone had built the program to where it was heading in a very good direction to establish some sustainable success, took 4 years but then he left and all was pretty much lost because they replaced him with a buffoon.

Chip's true genius was when he got to U of O, changed the game but then the game adapts as has Chip. It's a cycle. He also needed to recruit, covid, etc. I think he's doing just fine. 8 wins, 9 wins and will win 9 or so this year. Built a consistent winner and that's the goal. He also lost an NFL qb after 2022 season, not phased still winning on a consistent basis. Built depth and recruited good talent with good scheme on both sides. Football coach who I believe is smarter than most his peers.

 

[Chip]

We don't succumb to blow outs by Clemson and we've played Miami all of one time in this conference, and it was a competitive game.

Go runs these stats better than me on wins and losses and who've we've played.

We're in the same conference as Miami? Who knew.

 

[Chip]

I think 3-4 years is reasonable and that is what it will take. Nothing going to happen overnight.

Chip's true genius was when he got to U of O, changed the game but then the game adapts as has Chip. It's a cycle. He also needed to recruit, covid, etc. I think he's doing just fine. 8 wins, 9 wins and will win 9 or so this year. Built a consistent winner and that's the goal. He also lost an NFL qb after 2022 season, not phased still winning on a consistent basis. Built depth and recruited good talent

Let's get him back east. It will be much easier for him to get to Saratoga multiple times in the summer (I see him every opening weekend there).

But you hit the nail on the head in the other post. Until we can figure out how to recruit better material (and/or develop better) on the line of scrimmage (both sides), we're going to be more likely to win 3-4 games ACC, 6-7 games overall, than achieve anything higher. At least on a consistent basis.

 

[anomander]

Yeah that would be great too. The problem is a lot of these guys are currently getting scooped up by bigger programs.

At the end of the day, the only way to truly fix Syracuse football would be to hire an absolutely great head coach with a great understanding of how to recruit at Syracuse (Freshman and portal guys), develop talent and navigate all the new portal opportunities. Coach must be innovative with scheme and smart enough on how to evolve as times change. I am not 100% set that it has to be an offensive coach either but somebody smart enough to figure it out and recruit better at O Line and D line as well. I think it's pretty evident that this is clearly the weakest link right now.

Then after a few years Syracuse will somehow have to figure out how to retain this certain head coach. At this point the University and the boosters big, medium or small would have to step their game as well. To me that is the only way and this coach would have to be at least a 9.5 out of 10. Have to be unique individual in several areas if coach actually stays but $ always helps

I honestly don't know who that is or who would even be up for the task. I see people throw names around but none look good enough to me. Currently, I don't think anybody knows, you would have to take a huge risk with this type of hire. Have to be like a Chip Kelly from 15-17 years ago who nobody even heard of before he left New Hampshire and went to be the OC at Oregon. But that's what it would take, IMO and that is a daunting task to say the least may not even be possible at this point. Have to be Lincoln Riley type when he was the OC at East Carolina before he blew up at Oklahoma. A head coach from FCS type.

All that said, I then think you could win 8-9 games on a consistent basis. Maybe a drop off once in a while and maybe a playoff team once in a while (12 team) but it would take a special special head coach to do it.

All that said, Dino wins 7 he will be here for at least a couple more years and I don't have any issue with it.

Yea if Dino wins 7 i think it would be a bit of a disappointment based off the start and the Sr. 3 year starting QB, but Syracuse can’t be firing coaches with back to back 7 win seasons as low of a bar that sounds. These last 5 games are going to be a huge lens into the future of Babers at Syracuse. As mentioned before it’s a bit disappointing, especially if none of the wins come vs Clemson/UNC and let’s see how we perform vs FSU. 7 wins with 3 blowouts to those teams will be a big blah. If we could find a way to compete and see improvements in areas he has consistently lacked it wouldn’t be a problem, but we s see. I do think stability counts for something.

Just putting a name out there but Curt Cignetti would be an outstanding candidate. for HC, but he’s 62 years old. If he was 10 years younger i would say he would have been a perfect candidate.