How to Fix SU Football?

[MSOrange]

I blame the stupid LSU/Missouri game. I needed to watch from the opening kickoff and was denied!

That was infuriating. Why ESPN can't get WatchESPN to work like it's supposed to in this day and age is beyond me.

 

[capeorange]

You want to compete with the upper quarter of the ACC, the issue starts and ends with the OL. Of course the rest of the roster needs to continue to improve but the OL is the single big weakness.against the better teams.

Dino has done a good job of building a roster that can compete and beat “peer “ programs. The OL has been adequate in those games.

More and Ellis get integrated and Johnson gets back I still expect them to win the last five starting with VT

We're in the ACC. Who do you consider as peer programs? Colgate?
Dino's ACC record is horrible. He is not an ACC level coach.

 

[SmilinBob]

That was infuriating. Why ESPN can't get WatchESPN to work like it's supposed to in this day and age is beyond me.

At worst in the lower right corner put who had the ball and score. They had some goofy thing on there, can't they at least of done that?

 

[Scooch]

Maybe it is a matter of degree, or your qualifier about genuine hope, but I don’t sense “plenty of enthusiasm” in CNY. Not many, on this board or in the general population, were expecting wins against Clemson, NC, or FSU. Apart from 2018, and the little run in the first half of last season, we have not been a contender.

But I believe the real question is what would it take, and can it be done, to be a “serious program”?

It’d take money, and lots of it.

Money to hire a proven P5 head coach. And an accomplished staff.

Money to fund NIL to acquire and retain better players.

None of that guarantees being a title contender. But not doing that means you won’t be.

I don’t get any sense that SU and it’s donor class has any intention of taking this approach.

And honestly, that’s why I have zero trepidation about moving on from Dino if this season goes sideways. We’ve seen the worst case scenario - Gerg - and that means 4-ish wins a year. If our ceiling is 7-ish wins, then there really isn’t much to lose.

 

[baggerbob]

It’d take money, and lots of it.

Money to hire a proven P5 head coach. And an accomplished staff.

Money to fund NIL to acquire and retain better players.

None of that guarantees being a title contender. But not doing that means you won’t be.

I don’t get any sense that SU and it’s donor class has any intention of taking this approach.

And honestly, that’s why I have zero trepidation about moving on from Dino if this season goes sideways. We’ve seen the worst case scenario - Gerg - and that means 4-ish wins a year. If our ceiling is 7-ish wins, then there really isn’t much to lose.

Maybe it's time to realize the University really doesn't care to be competitive in football.
If not for Bragman getting the money from the state years ago to build the dome, they either would have dropped football or went to Division 2.
None of the Chancellor's beginning with Shaw cared about the football program, that's where we are a basketball school comes from.
It's been 43 years since the Dome opened, we went all those years without AC, and a soft roof. The University doesn't care about the fans or being good at football.
So accept it for what it is, we are BC, and Rutgers.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The plan starts with what are our goals. The bar has to set high, but attainable, and not unrealistic.

we can start with identity. Do we want to be big fish in a puddle ? Probably not since money talks and puddles lack dollars.

so that leaves two alternatives, accept that we can’t raise the big bucks, and settle for middle of the conference, get to any bowl as our reality or figure out a way to raise the big bucks. The latter is not likely.

I am ok w the middle of conference path, I accept that as our reality. I just want to make sure the off seasons don’t leave us at bottom of the conference.

We need to have the right brand even to attain middle of conference. That starts with excitement and high powered O and aggressive tenacious D.

we can get lucky at QB and have the excitement factor just from that position. On d we are not getting the 300 pound monsters who can also run. Dino has chosen speed over size and I like that approach. When we do that there will be games such as yesterday when we are just flat out bullied. A couple of those are OK.

as for Dino, yeah he is not perfect, but he is quite solid given the programs resources. I am ok with him unless we have total collapse during the rest of this season.

I'm on board, and I'll put a number on that.

We want to be 8-4 every year. That will produce reasonably good attendance.

Don't give away any more home games for dollars.

We want to make a bowl pretty much every year, and a good one (a name one) every 3 or 4 years (Sun Bowl, Holiday Bowl, Fiesta Bowl, Gator Bowl, etc.).

If we averaged 8-4, that means once in a while we'll win 10 games including bowl win), and we shouldn't do worse than 6-6, if we are recruiting enough depth to replace those who leave.

We need more NIL money, to make sure we don't become a farm team for bigger schools. We don't have to make kids rich, because just look at the "really good players" who just left for the portal this past year or two. Many are not even playing. The point is, if we can be reasonably good, borderline Top 25, make a bowl every year, then these kids are going to get enough visibility to get drafted.

We have been doing that for players. They DO get drafted with this staff. Dino is GOOD at that. Give him credit for one thing at least.

Maybe fewer kids leave for Top 15 schools, if we can come "close enough" in NIL, and give them enough visibility to get drafted.

That's our target, in my mind. That's what we have to aspire to.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Unc yes correct, Clemson not so much

So I get an upside down red heel shoe?
I was talking about UNC, too.
Yes, we frequently get screwed by refs in Clemson games.

 

[hoopsupstate]

2 fixed games against protected schools I wouldn't flip out until the rest of the year plays itself out.

Not sure why you would expect our AD to outpunch the 20-30 programs that have bigger fanbases than some NFL teams and pockets just as deep too. We're lucky we get to play peer schools like BC and aren't in a situation like Rutgers or Vandy.

I think Dino's buyout is low enough that you can move on if the last 6 games are UGLY. Someone like Sean Lewis could be a home run hire after spending a year working with Prime or bringing back Tony White with his northeast ties. Problem is there's very little chance we get continuity you either hit a home run and the guy leaves after 1-2 years or you owe a crazy amount of money to someone that sucks and can't afford to fire him.

Those two names will not move the needle. That’s the problem if these two guys are the names people are talking about to replace Dino.

 

[Deleted member 8116]

Maybe it's time to realize the University really doesn't care to be competitive in football.
If not for Bragman getting the money from the state years ago to build the dome, they either would have dropped football or went to Division 2.
None of the Chancellor's beginning with Shaw cared about the football program, that's where we are a basketball school comes from.
It's been 43 years since the Dome opened, we went all those years without AC, and a soft roof. The University doesn't care about the fans or being good at football.
So accept it for what it is, we are BC, and Rutgers.

BC has been to a lot of bowl games the last 20 years. Cuse not so much
15-6

 

[newmexicuse]

I'm on board, and I'll put a number on that.

We want to be 8-4 every year. That will produce reasonably good attendance.

Don't give away any more home games for dollars.

We want to make a bowl pretty much every year, and a good one (a name one) every 3 or 4 years (Sun Bowl, Holiday Bowl, Fiesta Bowl, Gator Bowl, etc.).

If we averaged 8-4, that means once in a while we'll win 10 games including bowl win), and we shouldn't do worse than 6-6, if we are recruiting enough depth to replace those who leave.

We need more NIL money, to make sure we don't become a farm team for bigger schools. We don't have to make kids rich, because just look at the "really good players" who just left for the portal this past year or two. Many are not even playing. The point is, if we can be reasonably good, borderline Top 25, make a bowl every year, then these kids are going to get enough visibility to get drafted.

We have been doing that for players. They DO get drafted with this staff. Dino is GOOD at that. Give him credit for one thing at least.

Maybe fewer kids leave for Top 15 schools, if we can come "close enough" in NIL, and give them enough visibility to get drafted.

That's our target, in my mind. That's what we have to aspire to.

I am with you, but averaging 8 - 4 is a big ask. Hope you right as to what we might be able to do, but until we see the dollars averaging 7 - 5 is probably more in our wheelhouse.

 

[cuse309]

2 fixed games against protected schools I wouldn't flip out until the rest of the year plays itself out.

Not sure why you would expect our AD to outpunch the 20-30 programs that have bigger fanbases than some NFL teams and pockets just as deep too. We're lucky we get to play peer schools like BC and aren't in a situation like Rutgers or Vandy.

I think Dino's buyout is low enough that you can move on if the last 6 games are UGLY. Someone like Sean Lewis could be a home run hire after spending a year working with Prime or bringing back Tony White with his northeast ties. Problem is there's very little chance we get continuity you either hit a home run and the guy leaves after 1-2 years or you owe a crazy amount of money to someone that sucks and can't afford to fire him.

If you honestly believe that the games are fixed, then rest of what you said after that matters 0%

 

[GoSU96]

We're in the ACC. Who do you consider as peer programs? Colgate?
Dino's ACC record is horrible. He is not an ACC level coach.

Peer ACC programs, everyone but Clemson, FSU, Miami. OOC, teams like Purdue, Rutgers, Minnesota.

Last three years 8-9 vs teams like that. Like to see it get to a place where they are 70% against that group.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

I guess it all depends upon what you mean by "fix."

The AD has insinuated that we need to get a bowl. He may have conveyed other metrics to Dino, but we don't know what those are.

After what we all expect to happen next Saturday, we will have 5 games left. In theory, we could finish 9-3. I don't have any real faith that will happen. Not even sure 8-4 will happen. My feeling is that the outliers will be 9-3 or 6-6, with 7 or 8 wins most likely.

If we go 6-6, that seems to satisfy JW's metric of a bowl (however crappy a bowl) but it is certainly on the edge. I think 7-5 means Dino is safe and more than that will likely be enough to satisfy most fans.

Of course, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

The greater issue is defining our place in the conference. In another post, I listed our...shall we say "unattractive"...record in the ACC in Dino's tenure. Our non-conference slate this year was perfectly crafted to get us to a bowl. Go 4-0 non conf and go 2-6 in the ACC and you are playing in the post season. I am all for going lite in the non-conference schedule but I am also all for being more than varying degrees of "doormat" in the league. To date in the Dino years, that is what we have been more often than not.

That's why the last 5 games against what most of us consider to be peer programs in the ACC are so important. It is all but a given that we will go bowling this year but the next step would be to achieve a bit more respectability in the conference.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I guess it all depends upon what you mean by "fix."

The AD has insinuated that we need to get a bowl. He may have conveyed other metrics to Dino, but we don't know what those are.

After what we all expect to happen next Saturday, we will have 5 games left. In theory, we could finish 9-3. I don't have any real faith that will happen. Not even sure 8-4 will happen. My feeling is that the outliers will be 9-3 or 6-6, with 7 or 8 wins most likely.

If we go 6-6, that seems to satisfy JW's metric of a bowl (however crappy a bowl) but it is certainly on the edge. I think 7-5 means Dino is safe and more than that will likely be enough to satisfy most fans.

Of course, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

The greater issue is defining our place in the conference. In another post, I listed our...shall we say "unattractive"...record in the ACC in Dino's tenure. Our non-conference slate this year was perfectly crafted to get us to a bowl. Go 4-0 non conf and go 2-6 in the ACC and you are playing in the post season. I am all for going lite in the non-conference schedule but I am also all for being more than varying degrees of "doormat" in the league. To date in the Dino years, that is what we have been more often than not.

That's why the last 5 games against what most of us consider to be peer programs in the ACC are so important. It is all but a given that we will go bowling this year but the next step would be to achieve a bit more respectability in the conference.

I don't see how one can justify keeping Dino at 6-6 against an easy schedule. Heck 7-5 is a poor job, but certainly won't get him fired.

I think going 7-5 is the worst thing that can happen. Dino stays but it means we underachieved.

VA Tech is a Thursday night game but they are not good. They are currently 79th in the Sagarin. If we can beat a better team with an amped up night crowd in Purdue, why would we not beat VA Tech?

No excuse for losing to BC (90th in Sagarin) at home. Or Pitt (75th) on a neutral field with more SU fans than not. Or Wake (66th) at home.

GA Tech is completely a Jekyll and Hyde team the last 2 seasons. One week they look decent and the next they look awful. So that is a game that could go either way.

Bottomline going 3-2 against those five is a fail. Not a fireable offense, but a fail none the less.

Also after going 4-0 OOC how can 3-5 in the ACC satisfy any SU FB fan?

 

[Dick_in_MI]

I don't see how one can justify keeping Dino at 6-6 against an easy schedule.

I agree, plus it would mean we went 2-6 in the ACC.

What JW thinks? I have no clue.

As long as Dino is still here, I hope he succeeds. Not because I love Dino, but because I love SU. If Dino succeeds, we succeed.

I hope that he turns it around on the back half of the schedule. I think he will but who the (blank) knows anymore.

 

[CousCuse]

The big state schools have always had a huge financial advantage over SU. The big state schools have always paid players and cheated on admissions, at least now SU could pay players and not get shaken down by the NCAA. Syracuse has always competed and even defeated the big school factories, and how did they do it? They were smarter and eliminated margins for error and innovated offensive strategy's that gave them an edge. That's not happening now.

 

[GoSU96]

I don't see how one can justify keeping Dino at 6-6 against an easy schedule. Heck 7-5 is a poor job, but certainly won't get him fired.

I think going 7-5 is the worst thing that can happen. Dino stays but it means we underachieved.

VA Tech is a Thursday night game but they are not good. They are currently 79th in the Sagarin. If we can beat a better team with an amped up night crowd in Purdue, why would we not beat VA Tech?

No excuse for losing to BC (90th in Sagarin) at home. Or Pitt (75th) on a neutral field with more SU fans than not. Or Wake (66th) at home.

GA Tech is completely a Jekyll and Hyde team the last 2 seasons. One week they look decent and the next they look awful. So that is a game that could go either way.

Bottomline going 3-2 against those five is a fail. Not a fireable offense, but a fail none the less.

Also after going 4-0 OOC how can 3-5 in the ACC satisfy any SU FB fan?

I said before the season started that if Shrader is okay for all 12 games I’d fire him myself if they end up 6-6.

 

[Cuse181]

Maybe it's time to realize the University really doesn't care to be competitive in football.
If not for Bragman getting the money from the state years ago to build the dome, they either would have dropped football or went to Division 2.
None of the Chancellor's beginning with Shaw cared about the football program, that's where we are a basketball school comes from.
It's been 43 years since the Dome opened, we went all those years without AC, and a soft roof. The University doesn't care about the fans or being good at football.
So accept it for what it is, we are BC, and Rutgers.

Syracuse was 1 no-vote from a clueless mayor on her way out the door away from getting a brand new stadium.

 

[Cuse181]

I don't see how one can justify keeping Dino at 6-6 against an easy schedule. Heck 7-5 is a poor job, but certainly won't get him fired.

I think going 7-5 is the worst thing that can happen. Dino stays but it means we underachieved.

VA Tech is a Thursday night game but they are not good. They are currently 79th in the Sagarin. If we can beat a better team with an amped up night crowd in Purdue, why would we not beat VA Tech?

No excuse for losing to BC (90th in Sagarin) at home. Or Pitt (75th) on a neutral field with more SU fans than not. Or Wake (66th) at home.

GA Tech is completely a Jekyll and Hyde team the last 2 seasons. One week they look decent and the next they look awful. So that is a game that could go either way.

Bottomline going 3-2 against those five is a fail. Not a fireable offense, but a fail none the less.

Also after going 4-0 OOC how can 3-5 in the ACC satisfy any SU FB fan?

Because this school has only seen 7 or more wins in a regular season 3 times since 2003

 

[BillSU]

The Fire Dino Chants are getting louder. Fans are questioning the head coach, the coordinators, etc, etc. and asking the question how can we fix SU Football. I have been a Cuse Fan before I was a student
there in the late 70"s- early 80's. I have seen bad SU football, the Maloney years, and I have seen good
Football, the Mac/ Coach P years. Here is my take on SU Football:
In this new climate that we find ourselves in, ACC football( We have to recruit against warm weather schools) and NIL, it will be very difficult for SU to become a top tier program again without a large,
consistent influx of CASH!!!! We do not have the money to compete on the stage that we desire to play on. Just look at the most recent events at Colorado. Colorado hires a coach and at the press conference, the AD says we signed our coach to a 29 Million dollar contract and right now, we don't have the money
to pay him, but I am not worried, we will get it. By the time the season started, Donors had contributed 29
Million! I was at the North Carolina game this past weekend and had the opportunity meet with some big money donors. The money at UNC Chapel Hill that supports the athletic program , is at another level that we can only dream of. The bottom line, is that Syracuse Football will remain a lower tier program, regardless of who our coach is, until we get a huge, consistent increase in funding. That is real talk that many of us don't want to hear. "Show Me The Money"!

Great post.

There are other parts to this proposal you are making that contributed to Colorado's hiring of Prime for all that money.

1. Deon was a winner on the football field before he even started coaching which gave him a positive reference to fans. 2. He then became a winner at Jackson St. after he talked to some important people about the needs Jackson had for facility donation for his team. 3. His son is a very good QB and he had the receiver to go with it and others followed. 4. Plain and simple he wins and people get that, coaches get that, administrators got that at Colorado and he knows how to get more. 5. Players want to play for a winner. Look what he's accomplished already.

I have heard and had enough about the weather in Syracuse - "it's too cold and there's too much snow" screw that approach, you win, better players come into your program.

I'd like to know though, where "SHOW ME THE MONEY" goes in your opinion using the facilities we have and the new Lally wing. Where would you start and allocate all the money, if we had it, to use to make us a successful program?

 

[NYCCuse826]

It’d take money, and lots of it.

Money to hire a proven P5 head coach. And an accomplished staff.

Money to fund NIL to acquire and retain better players.

None of that guarantees being a title contender. But not doing that means you won’t be.

I don’t get any sense that SU and it’s donor class has any intention of taking this approach.

And honestly, that’s why I have zero trepidation about moving on from Dino if this season goes sideways. We’ve seen the worst case scenario - Gerg - and that means 4-ish wins a year. If our ceiling is 7-ish wins, then there really isn’t much to lose.

The money isn't there. I had this conversation weeks ago with a very trusted source. SU does not have that resource to tap into. There are people who do not want to hear that.

 

[Bayside44]

The money isn't there. I had this conversation weeks ago with a very trusted source. SU does not have that resource to tap into. There are people who do not want to hear that.

SU has money to a degree. I don't think there is a dollar amount out there to get a "proven P5 (head) coach." That is never ever happening.

The AD has money to Lally, the NIL stuff is solid, and the U itself with the work being done to the Dome.

 

[GoSU96]

SU has money to a degree. I don't think there is a dollar amount out there to get a "proven P5 (head) coach." That is never ever happening.

The AD has money to Lally, the NIL stuff is solid, and the U itself with the work being done to the Dome.

Changing coaches is a band aid, short term rage non fix.

You want to go toe to toe with these type of teams, get better on the lines, starting with the OL. You want to focus limited resources, that’s where. They aren’t losing these games because of coaching. UNC played an A+ game and there is no circumstance where SU could match that.

The roster has gotten better every year the last three. The season was always going to be measured by the 9/10 games that weren’t this stretch.

 

[capeorange]

Peer ACC programs, everyone but Clemson, FSU, Miami. OOC, teams like Purdue, Rutgers, Minnesota.

Last three years 8-9 vs teams like that. Like to see it get to a place where they are 70% against that group.

You hit what you aim for. I have higher expectations for the program and the current staff isn't cutting it.

 

[capeorange]

Great post.

There are other parts to this proposal you are making that contributed to Colorado's hiring of Prime for all that money.

1. Deon was a winner on the football field before he even started coaching which gave him a positive reference to fans. 2. He then became a winner at Jackson St. after he talked to some important people about the needs Jackson had for facility donation for his team. 3. His son is a very good QB and he had the receiver to go with it and others followed. 4. Plain and simple he wins and people get that, coaches get that, administrators got that at Colorado and he knows how to get more. 5. Players want to play for a winner. Look what he's accomplished already.

I have heard and had enough about the weather in Syracuse - "it's too cold and there's too much snow" screw that approach, you win, better players come into your program.

I'd like to know though, where "SHOW ME THE MONEY" goes in your opinion using the facilities we have and the new Lally wing. Where would you start and allocate all the money if we had it to use to make us a successful program?

Deon was on my local news this morning. He hired a local high school coach and he said that he will try to recruit a local kid from SWFL every year. People make excuses that Florida kids don't want to go to schools like Syracuse because it's cold in the winter and that's total bs.