How to Fix SU Football?

[CousCuse]

You are dreaming if you don't see the talent gap that exists when Syracuse plays quality , ranked teams. Discipline, less penalties will help, but players win games. Coaches win with talent. If Dino had better players, he would be winning. ...Period. There is a reason why we don't have better players and it starts with Cash money!

Talent doesn't play for weakness,

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Because this school has only seen 7 or more wins in a regular season 3 times since 2003

That is not reason to keep the guy for year 9. In fact if we go 7-5 and he has only one year left on his contract, it is better to move on. You can't let him coach a lame duck season. His 8 years is not worth extending his contract.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

The issue is that Dino coached teams consistently have the same problems with little or no improvement during his tenure here. Only a HC change fixes that. With a HC change you can fix things like the general sloppiness and lack of discipline. Committing less penalties absolutely helps you win games. Having a head coach who can make logical decisions at the end of halves and who can properly manage time/time outs consistently absolutely helps you win games.

The problem the program has right now is that against any quality program, we are already negatively handicapped against them right out of the gate because our team is undisciplined and our HC can’t gameday coach his way out of a paper bag. Talent and scheme can overcome those weaknesses but when the talent and scheme don’t show up it gets very ugly.

You’re right - we weren’t winning UNC - you’re not winning when your team doesn’t show up against a superior opponent irrespective of who the HC is. But with better work out of the HC and better discipline maybe we win against Clemson.

I think the best way to describe Dino is a MAC level HC. He will generally beat the bad teams, and get blown out by the good teams. He cannot cut it at the P4 level.

Look at Wake. Look at Duke. Oregon State, Washington State. Heck you could probably add both Kansas schools too. Why are we accepting what we have?

 

[GoSU96]

The hiring of Greg Robinson came from incompetent administrators no longer associated with the University. What’s your point, we can’t win?

Putting aside the Covid year dino is 31-25 the last five normal seasons through Saturday. My guess he’ll be closer to 37-26 than 31-31.

What’s “winning” to you?

And what are YOU doing to enact that vision?

 

[rocklloyd]

I’m taking a self imposed break. back in 5 days, maybe

 

[zjscuse]

Who else is to blame for our demise in football besides Daryl gross and Greg Robinson? Man they really knew how to crater a program.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Clemson is a loaded 25th ranked team (SRS). NC and FSU are top 10. (BTW I fondly remember the brainiacs freak out when I said that FSU was good last year)

It's not that big a deal when an average team gets murdered by a top ten team.

I don't know if people are upset to realize we are average or if they knew it and are upset at how hopeless it is for average teams

It was fun to have a good start and maybe that was worse than it should've been but people should reserve the anger for losses to Pitt and bc, if it happens

We never had three game stretches like this in the big east, maybe that's the issue

This is the reality. I think folks would rather be competitive in those games. Clemson was at least a game early in the fourth. UNc was a dud.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Wake Forest is building a $38m football facility and the press release says they've invested $100m over the last 7 years.

Syracuse's investment with Lally complex is good but the reality is that it barely gets Cuse to parity with some of the peer schools.

It’ll get them a football only operations center which is standard. We’ve invested a lot in football to catch up for decades of under investment.

 

[JrodCuse]

Let’s roleplay for a second:

We are playing a clone of our team. Same players, same size, same speed, same strengths, same weaknesses. Only difference is the head coach.

What’s Dino’s record over 10 games?

Sadly I think it’s less then .500

 

[JrodCuse]

Fun fact:

Right now Dino’s ACC record is 18-41.

If we magically went 6-2 every year in the ACC moving forward it would take 6 years to break north of a .500 ACC record. (54-53)

At 5-3 it would take 12 years (78-77)

Obviously at 4-4 it never happens and it just gets worse and worse from there.

So the question is can Dino go 5-3 or 6-2 every year from here on out to climb back to .500+ in the ACC? If the answer is no then he’s gotta go.

 

[Dr. Bill]

Generally speaking undisciplined programs with poor gameday coaches and elite talent are still going to lose games. And a program that can afford to buy elite talent can afford to buy an elite coach.

Even with Dino's above stated deficiencies, with better talent, elite talent, syracuse wins or are at the very least, competitive in these games. You are missing the point, it is not the coaching that is to blame here, that is so easy to do, We need better funding, so that we can afford better players. We all need to accept that as fact, because the truth is that we don't have the money we need to become the type of program, we all wish we were.

 

[CuseIsGodsTeam]

Putting aside the Covid year dino is 31-25 the last five normal seasons through Saturday. My guess he’ll be closer to 37-26 than 31-31.

What’s “winning” to you?

And what are YOU doing to enact that vision?

I’m a season-ticket holder who travels to a number of road games as well. I’m supporting the program even if they continue to make stupid decisions and continue to roll with a loser coach.

Unless, however, they do something REALLY stupid as has been suggested on this board like dropping out of the ACC, getting rid of football, or some other nonsense. I’m as die hard as they get. if I had the millions, believe me, I would be a primary booster

The Covid year counts, We couldn’t get a win over BC or Liberty at home? Even if you throw it out he’s still a bad coach with two winning seasons in 6 years.

At the end of the day, you seem to be OK with toilet bowl seasons. I want championships. It’s not my job to do so, it’s the A.D.’s department and SU admin. I simply reject this limited ceiling that is espoused here. We aren’t Rice.

 

[GoSU96]

Fun fact:

Right now Dino’s ACC record is 18-41.

If we magically went 6-2 every year in the ACC moving forward it would take 6 years to break north of a .500 ACC record. (54-53)

At 5-3 it would take 12 years (78-77)

Obviously at 4-4 it never happens and it just gets worse and worse from there.

So the question is can Dino go 5-3 or 6-2 every year from here on out to climb back to .500+ in the ACC? If the answer is no then he’s gotta go.

what difference does it make?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I think a fair evaluation of a HC at SU should be..

Record vs the Top 25% of FBS (this year that is Top 33)
-These are your good teams. I think expecting 1 out of 8 (.125) is fair. On top of that maybe 2 out of 3 that are semi competitive.

vs Top 26-50% of FBS (this year Top 34-66)
-These are your decent teams. I think .500 is fair but let's be generous and say 7 out of 16 (.4375)

vs Top 51-75% (this year Top 67-99)
-These teams are not good. I think .750 is fair but let's be generous again and say 2 out of 3 (.667)

vs Bottom 25% (this year 100-132)
-These are your really bad teams. Upsets happen so let's be generous and say we should win only 7 out of 8 (.875)


I don't think overall record should be the main metric as there will be times where we have a loaded schedule (see 2025). And just getting 6 against an easy schedule (like this year) should not be a good thing.

When I have time later I will do the above for Dino. Oh and 2020 happened folks. The situation SHOULD be taken into account, but 1-10 was unacceptable. Going 3-8 is one thing to accept, but not what we saw.

 

[CousCuse]

Even with Dino's above stated deficiencies, with better talent, elite talent, syracuse wins or are at the very least, competitive in these games. You are missing the point, it is not the coaching that is to blame here, that is so easy to do, We need better funding, so that we can afford better players. We all need to accept that as fact, because the truth is that we don't have the money we need to become the type of program, we all wish we were.

He had Jawhar on the team and couldn't see his talent. The guy could win the Heisman.

 

[cusefan88]

I’m a season-ticket holder who travels to a number of road games as well. I’m supporting the program even if they continue to make stupid decisions and continue to roll with a loser coach.

Unless, however, they do something REALLY stupid as has been suggested on this board like dropping out of the ACC, getting rid of football, or some other nonsense. I’m as die hard as they get. if I had the millions, believe me, I would be a primary booster

The Covid year counts, We couldn’t get a win over BC or Liberty at home? Even if you throw it out he’s still a bad coach with two winning seasons in 6 years.

At the end of the day, you seem to be OK with toilet bowl seasons. I want championships. It’s not my job to do so, it’s the A.D.’s department and SU admin. I simply reject this limited ceiling that is espoused here. We aren’t Rice.

Listen, you're absolutely right for not wanting mediocrity in this program. However, Syracuse simply doesn't have the financial might to compete for championships consistently. I honestly don't think that is a controversial statement.

 

[Bayside44]

Listen, you're absolutely right for not wanting mediocrity in this program. However, Syracuse simply doesn't have the financial might to compete for championships consistently. I honestly don't think that is a controversial statement.

We also sit in the middle of a recruiting dessert. The region simply doesn't produce scale of talent like other peer programs we play. And comparing us to national programs like ND and Michigan is just goofy.

Saturday we got torched by a guy that's a top three NFL pick that grew up in NC, dad went to UNC, and brother was a hero at UNC. That - is an outlier...

 

[Dr. Bill]

He had Jawhar on the team and couldn't see his talent. The guy could win the Heisman.

Sorry, but your assessment of the Jawhar situation is off base. Clearly, we recruited him, so we recognized his talent. The problem that led Jawhar to leave was that he didn't feel he was being used properly. We were sending him up the middle too much with no o line to block for him. He got injured and wanted to play in a scheme that fit his style. That is different than what you said...not recognizing his talent.

 

[GoSU96]

I’m a season-ticket holder who travels to a number of road games as well. I’m supporting the program even if they continue to make stupid decisions and continue to roll with a loser coach.

Unless, however, they do something REALLY stupid as has been suggested on this board like dropping out of the ACC, getting rid of football, or some other nonsense. I’m as die hard as they get. if I had the millions, believe me, I would be a primary booster

The Covid year counts, We couldn’t get a win over BC or Liberty at home? Even if you throw it out he’s still a bad coach with two winning seasons in 6 years.

At the end of the day, you seem to be OK with toilet bowl seasons. I want championships. It’s not my job to do so, it’s the A.D.’s department and SU admin. I simply reject this limited ceiling that is espoused here. We aren’t Rice.

You think that Dino Babers is the thing standing between you and Championships?

Yeesh
You want to help, fund NIL to go sign some better OL

 

[CousCuse]

Listen, you're absolutely right for not wanting mediocrity in this program. However, Syracuse simply doesn't have the financial might to compete for championships consistently. I honestly don't think that is a controversial statement.

SU's relative financial might compared to the big schools is about the same as it has always been.

 

[GoSU96]

He had Jawhar on the team and couldn't see his talent. The guy could win the Heisman.

What? He was the starter until he got hurt and then left because he didn’t want to compete with Tucker for snaps at TB and play in the slot

 

[Dr. Bill]

I think the best way to describe Dino is a MAC level HC. He will generally beat the bad teams, and get blown out by the good teams. He cannot cut it at the P4 level.

Look at Wake. Look at Duke. Oregon State, Washington State. Heck you could probably add both Kansas schools too. Why are we accepting what we have?

Everyone is blaming the Coach...The real issue is lack of talent. Take Duke you sited, they beat us out for the QB Leonard, who is a stud! They have a good coach, who can recruit, but they have more talent. Syracuse is going to struggle bringing in talent to compete with their peers in the ACC. We can always schedule a favorable non conference schedule, and win a few toss up games against lower talent ACC schools and win 6-7 games, that is who Syracuse football is and will be unless we get more funding. That is our reality, why can't people accept that?

 

[CousCuse]

Sorry, but your assessment of the Jawhar situation is off base. Clearly, we recruited him, so we recognized his talent. The problem that led Jawhar to leave was that he didn't feel he was being used properly. We were sending him up the middle too much with no o line to block for him. He got injured and wanted to play in a scheme that fit his style. That is different than what you said...not recognizing his talent.

I have no insider info, the only thing I know is Jordan ran through the Notre Dame defense like they were standing still and that defense is loaded with talent.

 

[Dr. Bill]

SU's relative financial might compared to the big schools is about the same as it has always been.

You use the term "relative", I don't even know if that is a true statement, but what is true and makes these times different than the historical past, is that it is legal to pay players now, and players are picking schools based on how much money you are going to give them. Look up the University of Utah, they just gave every single scholarship player a brand new truck, I think Ford F150's every player! What can we give our kids?

 

[CousCuse]

What? He was the starter until he got hurt and then left because he didn’t want to compete with Tucker for snaps at TB and play in the slot

He's better than Tucker.