How to Fix SU Football?

[tep624]

Changing coaches is a band aid, short term rage non fix.

You want to go toe to toe with these type of teams, get better on the lines, starting with the OL. You want to focus limited resources, that’s where. They aren’t losing these games because of coaching. UNC played an A+ game and there is no circumstance where SU could match that.

The roster has gotten better every year the last three. The season was always going to be measured by the 9/10 games that weren’t this stretch.

The issue is that Dino coached teams consistently have the same problems with little or no improvement during his tenure here. Only a HC change fixes that. With a HC change you can fix things like the general sloppiness and lack of discipline. Committing less penalties absolutely helps you win games. Having a head coach who can make logical decisions at the end of halves and who can properly manage time/time outs consistently absolutely helps you win games.

The problem the program has right now is that against any quality program, we are already negatively handicapped against them right out of the gate because our team is undisciplined and our HC can’t gameday coach his way out of a paper bag. Talent and scheme can overcome those weaknesses but when the talent and scheme don’t show up it gets very ugly.

You’re right - we weren’t winning UNC - you’re not winning when your team doesn’t show up against a superior opponent irrespective of who the HC is. But with better work out of the HC and better discipline maybe we win against Clemson.

 

[GoSU96]

You hit what you aim for. I have higher expectations for the program and the current staff isn't cutting it.

Setting expectations is a vacuum = setting up for failure from the start.

On what basis do you think SU should be a program equal to Clemson and FSU?

 

[GoSU96]

Deon was on my local news this morning. He hired a local high school coach and he said that he will try to recruit a local kid from SWFL every year. People make excuses that Florida kids don't want to go to schools like Syracuse because it's cold in the winter and that's total bs.

You are aware that there are kids Florida already on the roster, right?

 

[capeorange]

Setting expectations is a vacuum = setting up for failure from the start.

On what basis do you think SU should be a program equal to Clemson and FSU?

I'm old enough to remember beating Clemson 41-0 so maybe I look at things differently than you do. We came close to FSU a couple of years ago and they got better and we stuck with Dino.

 

[syracuse95]

My metric for success in football is to play well enough that the basketball-onlies stay on their side of the forum for an entire season.

 

[Offthedome]

That was infuriating. Why ESPN can't get WatchESPN to work like it's supposed to in this day and age is beyond me.

Or put the next game in a small window in the corner of the screen? Having to sit through that post-game interview made me want to punch Brian Kelly even more than I usually do.

 

[capeorange]

Setting expectations is a vacuum = setting up for failure from the start.

On what basis do you think SU should be a program equal to Clemson and FSU?

How is having high expectations setting up for failure?!?
You keep aiming low and I'm sure you'll be satisfied.

 

[GoSU96]

I'm old enough to remember beating Clemson 41-0 so maybe I look at things differently than you do. We came close to FSU a couple of years ago and they got better and we stuck with Dino.

got it, two feet grounded in reality

 

[Bayside44]

I'm old enough to remember beating Clemson 41-0 so maybe I look at things differently than you do. We came close to FSU a couple of years ago and they got better and we stuck with Dino.

Go is old enough to remember when Dasher was born.

Are you saying all those FL kids at FSU should be flying over a dozen plus schools to get to Cuse?

 

[GoSU96]

Go is old enough to remember when Dasher was born.

Are you saying all those FL kids at FSU should be flying over a dozen plus schools to get to Cuse?

Hey now.

 

[Millhouse]

Changing coaches is a band aid, short term rage non fix.

You want to go toe to toe with these type of teams, get better on the lines, starting with the OL. You want to focus limited resources, that’s where. They aren’t losing these games because of coaching. UNC played an A+ game and there is no circumstance where SU could match that.

The roster has gotten better every year the last three. The season was always going to be measured by the 9/10 games that weren’t this stretch.

Clemson is a loaded 25th ranked team (SRS). NC and FSU are top 10. (BTW I fondly remember the brainiacs freak out when I said that FSU was good last year)

It's not that big a deal when an average team gets murdered by a top ten team.

I don't know if people are upset to realize we are average or if they knew it and are upset at how hopeless it is for average teams

It was fun to have a good start and maybe that was worse than it should've been but people should reserve the anger for losses to Pitt and bc, if it happens

We never had three game stretches like this in the big east, maybe that's the issue

 

[cusefan88]

Wake Forest is building a $38m football facility and the press release says they've invested $100m over the last 7 years.

Syracuse's investment with Lally complex is good but the reality is that it barely gets Cuse to parity with some of the peer schools.

 

[CuseIsGodsTeam]

Syracuse football should be a premier top 20 program with a unique, appealing venue that competes for conference and national titles. The Orangemen should be a beast of the east to be reckoned with. Anything less is acceptance of mediocrity and is a losers mentality, despite any and all claims of being “realistic” about the situation.

“We can’t recruit here” “Nobody wants to come here” “We never will have a good O-line” blah blah blah……BS. A bunch of these programs are in dumps; East Lansing, South Bend, Gainesville, all garbage. We can absolutely win here and win consistently with the right coach if SU is willing to put in the effort, I’m not buying that Syracuse University is some pauper school either when it costs 72k a year!

I’m am so tired of Dino’s excuses. “We went up against a future NFL player” or his little cringy in jest shutter he makes everytime during an interview when Matt Park mentions a marquee team on our schedule. Being scared of the big moment and complaining about playing the best is a loser attitude. Where’s the “bring it on” “we are going to compete for 60 minutes and punch you in the mouth” attitude. Dino is a loser, his teams wilt under any adversity and its especially palpable in the dome. They make way too many stupid, dumb mistakes over and over again. The record speaks for itself and he’s a damn well paid loser.

Get rid of him already. We can put together a quality squad much faster in the current climate. Enough of the excuses for not winning. Excuses are for losers.

 

[GoSU96]

Clemson is a loaded 25th ranked team (SRS). NC and FSU are top 10. (BTW I fondly remember the brainiacs freak out when I said that FSU was good last year)

It's not that big a deal when an average team gets murdered by a top ten team.

I don't know if people are upset to realize we are average or if they knew it and are upset at how hopeless it is for average teams

It was fun to have a good start and maybe that was worse than it should've been but people should reserve the anger for losses to Pitt and bc, if it happens

We never had three game stretches like this in the big east, maybe that's the issue

Here’s the closest

Post in thread 'The Next 3'
The Next 3

98 they weren’t all together but there were more

last year was Clemson 13, ND 18, Pitt 22, FSU 11

this year is about getting through this stretch and stacking wins the last five

 

[GoSU96]

Syracuse football should be a premier top 20 program with a unique, appealing venue that competes for conference and national titles. The Orangemen should be a beast of the east to be reckoned with. Anything less is acceptance of mediocrity and is a losers mentality, despite any and all claims of being “realistic” about the situation.

“We can’t recruit here” “Nobody wants to come here” “We never will have a good O-line” blah blah blah……BS. A bunch of these programs are in dumps; East Lansing, South Bend, Gainesville, all garbage. We can absolutely win here and win consistently with the right coach if SU is willing to put in the effort, I’m not buying that Syracuse University is some pauper school either when it costs 72k a year!

I’m am so tired of Dino’s excuses. “We went up against a future NFL player” or his little cringy in jest shutter he makes everytime during an interview when Matt Park mentions a marquee team on our schedule. Being scared of the big moment and complaining about playing the best is a loser attitude. Where’s the “bring it on” “we are going to compete for 60 minutes and punch you in the mouth” attitude. Dino is a loser, his teams wilt under any adversity and its especially palpable in the dome. They make way too many stupid, dumb mistakes over and over again. The record speaks for itself and he’s a damn well paid loser.

Get rid of him already. We can put together a quality squad much faster in the current climate. Enough of the excuses for not winning. Excuses are for losers.

Nice troll job

 

[MadNY3]

Maybe it's time to realize the University really doesn't care to be competitive in football.
If not for Bragman getting the money from the state years ago to build the dome, they either would have dropped football or went to Division 2.
None of the Chancellor's beginning with Shaw cared about the football program, that's where we are a basketball school comes from.
It's been 43 years since the Dome opened, we went all those years without AC, and a soft roof. The University doesn't care about the fans or being good at football.
So accept it for what it is, we are BC, and Rutgers.

I used to be in a similar camp. But I do think SU realizes the importance of football with all the conference shifting.

But…were the 43 years with a soft roof a detriment? Never heard that one.

 

[CuseIsGodsTeam]

Nice troll job

I don’t accept mediocrity as being realistic.

 

[GoSU96]

I don’t accept mediocrity as being realistic.

This is the nonsense that gets you Greg Robinson

 

[CuseIsGodsTeam]

This is the nonsense that gets you Greg Robinson

The hiring of Greg Robinson came from incompetent administrators no longer associated with the University. What’s your point, we can’t win?

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I mean we are undefeated so far this year in games where the refs didn't make a ridiculous game changing call against us early on. Despite replay clearly showing a targeting they picked up a flag and replay showed the punter was 1.5 yards short of the line perfect angle perfect view of the ball and first down line.

'No the 14 point swing after the blocked punt didn't decide the game...once we were down 3 possessions the calls were even can't blame it on the refs.'

 

[Dr. Bill]

Great post.

There are other parts to this proposal you are making that contributed to Colorado's hiring of Prime for all that money.

1. Deon was a winner on the football field before he even started coaching which gave him a positive reference to fans. 2. He then became a winner at Jackson St. after he talked to some important people about the needs Jackson had for facility donation for his team. 3. His son is a very good QB and he had the receiver to go with it and others followed. 4. Plain and simple he wins and people get that, coaches get that, administrators got that at Colorado and he knows how to get more. 5. Players want to play for a winner. Look what he's accomplished already.

I have heard and had enough about the weather in Syracuse - "it's too cold and there's too much snow" screw that approach, you win, better players come into your program.

I'd like to know though, where "SHOW ME THE MONEY" goes in your opinion using the facilities we have and the new Lally wing. Where would you start and allocate all the money, if we had it, to use to make us a successful program?

First, your assessment about Coach Prime, I am not sure you get the point I am making here. Colorado, took a gamble on Coach Prime, he completely revamped the roster with better players, that is why they are winning. He didn't even want the players from the 1-11 team he inherited. He is able to get better players , because they have the money to pay them. His Son just bought a Maybeck SUV, on NIL money! The Colorado reference just emphasizes how money plays a huge role in success. As far as the Cuse and weather, get real, when these 18 year olds go on tours at Clemson, and Miami, what they see is half dressed coeds all over campus. At the Cuse, the only time you might see a half dressed coed...is in your room, if you are lucky...LOL. You are kiddung yourself, if you don't think that plays a role in recruiting. Before we were in the ACC, most of our recruiting rivals shared the same geography and weather. Money, what should we do with the money? We need it to pay players, and hire better assistant coaches and a better head coach, if we decide to go in that direction. Facility upgrade that is going on now, is a great start, but it will not go far enough relative to recruiting top tier players and retaining your own best players and preventing from defecting to the highest bidders. So, again, I stand behind " Show mw he money"!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I guess it all depends upon what you mean by "fix."

The AD has insinuated that we need to get a bowl. He may have conveyed other metrics to Dino, but we don't know what those are.

After what we all expect to happen next Saturday, we will have 5 games left. In theory, we could finish 9-3. I don't have any real faith that will happen. Not even sure 8-4 will happen. My feeling is that the outliers will be 9-3 or 6-6, with 7 or 8 wins most likely.

If we go 6-6, that seems to satisfy JW's metric of a bowl (however crappy a bowl) but it is certainly on the edge. I think 7-5 means Dino is safe and more than that will likely be enough to satisfy most fans.

Of course, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

The greater issue is defining our place in the conference. In another post, I listed our...shall we say "unattractive"...record in the ACC in Dino's tenure. Our non-conference slate this year was perfectly crafted to get us to a bowl. Go 4-0 non conf and go 2-6 in the ACC and you are playing in the post season. I am all for going lite in the non-conference schedule but I am also all for being more than varying degrees of "doormat" in the league. To date in the Dino years, that is what we have been more often than not.

That's why the last 5 games against what most of us consider to be peer programs in the ACC are so important. It is all but a given that we will go bowling this year but the next step would be to achieve a bit more respectability in the conference.

I fear, given the outcome of some of these game breaking calls not going our way, that the expectation from the ACC is that we are there on the football side to be a punching bag.

It's not overt. It's situational. But we have our place and influences are such that we are encouraged to remain there.

 

[JKinPhilly]

I think

He is able to get better players , because they have the money to pay them. His Son just bought a Maybeck SUV, on NIL money!

I think someone bought our team a bunch of maibocks before the last 2 games, so there's that. Cheers to NIL!

 

[Dr. Bill]

The issue is that Dino coached teams consistently have the same problems with little or no improvement during his tenure here. Only a HC change fixes that. With a HC change you can fix things like the general sloppiness and lack of discipline. Committing less penalties absolutely helps you win games. Having a head coach who can make logical decisions at the end of halves and who can properly manage time/time outs consistently absolutely helps you win games.

The problem the program has right now is that against any quality program, we are already negatively handicapped against them right out of the gate because our team is undisciplined and our HC can’t gameday coach his way out of a paper bag. Talent and scheme can overcome those weaknesses but when the talent and scheme don’t show up it gets very ugly.

You’re right - we weren’t winning UNC - you’re not winning when your team doesn’t show up against a superior opponent irrespective of who the HC is. But with better work out of the HC and better discipline maybe we win against Clemson.

You are dreaming if you don't see the talent gap that exists when Syracuse plays quality , ranked teams. Discipline, less penalties will help, but players win games. Coaches win with talent. If Dino had better players, he would be winning. ...Period. There is a reason why we don't have better players and it starts with Cash money!

 

[tep624]

You are dreaming if you don't see the talent gap that exists when Syracuse plays quality , ranked teams. Discipline, less penalties will help, but players win games. Coaches win with talent. If Dino had better players, he would be winning. ...Period. There is a reason why we don't have better players and it starts with Cash money!

Generally speaking undisciplined programs with poor gameday coaches and elite talent are still going to lose games. And a program that can afford to buy elite talent can afford to buy an elite coach.