How to Fix SU Football?

[CuseIsGodsTeam]

Not for anything but those "trust fund babies" go to school for ya know... School? Not for sports... That money should be spent on the SCHOOL first and foremost.

Given the numbers of enrollment and alumni there’s enough to have a fantastic donor base if so willing. Maybe “bowl eligible” being proclaimed as the ceiling is a handicap to some of the funding issues.

Is this realistic enough? We should be better than VT, UVA, Louisville, BC, Wake, Pitt, GT, NCSU, and Duke on a regular basis. That’s NY6 territory with ACC title potential. Is being ahead of these programs really some absurd form of unobtainium?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

You would fire a coach who went to back to back bowl games prior his last contract season? You dont think it would help to keep that 3-5 extra million to use as a sweetener for a coach in 2025?

Can't have a lame duck situation. So you need to extend or move on. Going 7-5 against this schedule added to the prior 7 years tells me move on.

But this is assuming he has one year.

 

[richmondcuse03]

No, but it IS a strawman. Not as big a strawman as "we will never be Alabama", but a strawman none-the-less.

Nobody says we have to be ACC champions (or be Alabama). Getting to bowls regularly (based upon the fact that you only need a pulse to get to the lower tier bowls) is reasonable and it is what most fans see as reasonable too.

Being competitive with our peer schools is a reasonable expectation as well. We are in a P5 conference. There have to be goals. Like any goal, you do need to stretch yourself.

This year (and last) we will achieve the bowl expectation. The last half of the year will determine whether we are competitive with our peers.

Then we have to see if we can do both consistently, ala the goals that Dino set forth when he was hired.

We will never consistently be on a par with certain ACC schools who view football the same way the SEC schools view football (and throw the same kind of $$$ at it).

Our goals are simple: winning seasons, bowls, don't suck when we do play the ranked teams, have occasional great years, and try to be better than our peers. Those seem like sensible goals.

Agree. But we started conference play with three top 25 caliber teams. If we end up with a winning record in the ACC, will folks say it’s a success? We should judge it based on the whole year.

Really? Seems like you are a member of the "Welcome to Loserville" crowd, too.

Are we any worse, historically speaking, than the following list of teams, just off the top of my head? Here are the win totals these teams put up over the last 10 seasons.

• Minnesota - 11 wins, 9 wins 3 times, 8 wins twice, 7, 5 and 3
• Wake Forest - 11 wins, 8 wins 3 times; 7, 4 and 3 wins twice each
• Cincinnati - 13 wins (!), 11 wins twice, 9 wins four times, 7 wins once, 4 wins twice
• Louisville - 12 wins (!), 9 wins twice, 8 wins four times, 6 wins, 4 wins and 2 wins
• Purdue - 9 wins, 8, 7, 6, 4, 3 (2X), 2 and 1 win
• West Virginia - 10 wins, 8 (2X), 7 (2x), 6 (2x), 5 (2x), 4 (2x)
• Arizona State - 10 wins twice (!), 8 wins twice, 7 wins twice, 6, 5, 3, 2, 1
• Boston College - 7 wins 5 times, 6 wins 3 times, 3 wins twice
• Oregon State - 10 wins, 7 wins twice, 5 wins 3 times, 4 wins, 2 wins 3 times, 1 win
• Maryland - 8 wins, 7 wins (3x), 5 wins, 4 (2x), 3 (2x), 2 wins
• Utah - 11 wins, 10 wins (3x), 9 wins (3x), 7, 5 and 3 wins
• Ole Miss - 10 wins twice, 9 wins, 8 wins twice, 6 wins, 5 wins (3x), 4
• Oklahoma State - 12 wins, 10 wins FOUR times, 8 (2x), 7 wins (3x)
• Kansas State - 10 wins, 9 twice, 8 wins four times, 6, 5 and 4

Are ANY of these teams our historical superiors? Is there any reason we should be a team that can win around 8 games most years? All of these teams seem to do it, except BC, but they've still made bowl games 8 of the last 10 years.

I'm really disappointed by the defeatism on this board, about "our rightful place" in college football.

we need to have back to back winning seasons first before we start comparing ourselves to anyone. Last time we did that was in a different conference no? We have been a doormat in college football for two decades.

I was hoping / expecting 8 wins this year.

 

[Cuse181]

Given the numbers of enrollment and alumni there’s enough to have a fantastic donor base if so willing. Maybe “bowl eligible” being proclaimed as the ceiling is a handicap to some of the funding issues.

Is this realistic enough? We should be better than VT, UVA, Louisville, BC, Wake, Pitt, GT, NCSU, and Duke on a regular basis. That’s NY6 territory with ACC title potential. Is being ahead of these programs really some absurd form of unobtainium?

Bowl eligible might not be the ceiling. That being said, if its just above the floor then we have done a piss-poor job of obtaining that position. Before we run around claiming ACC championships or 9 win seasons should be the norm, we should probably try to achieve a consistent track record of getting to bowl games. Maybe lets go for get to 3 years in a row of bowl games, then we can worry about how does Syracuse compete with UNC for a spot in the championship game. If the donor base is waiting for a string of championships to start donating then they are going to be sorely disappointed. (that being said, i do not think they are)

As for your second point, why should we be better than any of them? Those are our peer schools, Syracuse has no advantage over any of them. Should they achieve the occasional success those teams see? That would be great. Should they be consistently finishing above them all as an expectation? Of course not. Especially not the state schools in fertile recruiting territory.

 

[CousCuse]

He wanst better than tucker on the same team, let alone in general. One would be hard pressed to beat the "sit shrader" posts on the dumb scale but yet here we are.

You must be as blind as the coaches. He will be a first or second round draft pick. He wrecked Notre Dame.

 

[Cuse181]

Can't have a lame duck situation. So you need to extend or move on. Going 7-5 against this schedule added to the prior 7 years tells me move on.

But this is assuming he has one year.

But again, you are costing yourself 5 million (1M-1.25M more a year for a 4-5 year contract) in the name of pushing up your hiring date by a single year. I think it makes far more sense to let him have his lame duck year and then take that extra 1-1.25M to outbid a peer school for a high tier guy in 2025

 

[Cuse181]

You must be as blind as the coaches. He will be a first or second round draft pick. He wrecked Notre Dame.

He isn't even on a big board, let alone a first day or two pick...

 

[CuseIsGodsTeam]

Bowl eligible might not be the ceiling. That being said, if its just above the floor then we have done a piss-poor job of obtaining that position. Before we run around claiming ACC championships or 9 win seasons should be the norm, we should probably try to achieve a consistent track record of getting to bowl games. Maybe lets go for get to 3 years in a row of bowl games, then we can worry about how does Syracuse compete with UNC for a spot in the championship game. If the donor base is waiting for a string of championships to start donating then they are going to be sorely disappointed. (that being said, i do not think they are)

As for your second point, why should we be better than any of them? Those are our peer schools, Syracuse has no advantage over any of them. Should they achieve the occasional success those teams see? That would be great. Should they be consistently finishing above them all as an expectation? Of course not. Especially not the state schools in fertile recruiting territory.

Yes, you want to make progress. I agree wholly. Our coach’s 2nd winning season in 7 years involved a 1-6 collapse, A good coach beats pitt and wake last year. Is limping into a bowl game after four inferior opponents progress? Do the big donors really want to invest in a Dino led program?

 

[NineOneSeven]

I thought we were a net positive in this new NIL portal? HC doesn’t seem to think so.

It’s definitely not easy.

(Also…. Coach better)

 

[CousCuse]

He isn't even on a big board, let alone a first day or two pick...

You need to look at a board? The guy has all the tools to be a super back.

 

[Cuse181]

You need to look at a board? The guy has all the tools to be a super back.

You can think that, doesn't change the fact that at the moment it doesn't look like he will anywhere near an NFL draft stage.

 

[Cuse181]

Yes, you want to make progress. I agree wholly. Our coaches 2nd winning season in 7 years involved a 1-6 collapse, A good coach beats pitt and wake last year. Is limping into a bowl game after four inferior opponents progress? Do the big donors really want to invest in a Dino led program?

That coach is also the only coach since Pasq to have 2 regular seasons with 6 or more wins over FBS opponents... Limping into a bowl game sucks, but for now, (if it happens) getting to two bowl games in a row (edit) under one coach is an achievement that Syracuse hasn't seen in 20 years. Like I said before, we can expect to win 9 or 10 games a year, but until they win 7 or 8 a couple years in a row, that expectation is not realistic because the stats just dont back it up.

 

[Bayside44]

This thread is depressing. What I’ve gathered from a few post is Cuse can never compete with others in ACC, as far as recruiting, due to location and lack of talent. No hopes for ACC titles. Cuse also lacks the funds to compete.

I look at other teams and it’s not like they are filled with dudes from the same state. Pitt for example has 10 out 19 recruits for ‘24 from Georgia/Florida. Only 3 are from PA. I think players will go to schools that win and have a good coach.

Why not go all in and just try to bring in a big name with a proven record for 7-8 mill. I don’t know anymore.

Pitt has 37 PA kids on their roster.

 

[anomander]

It’s definitely not easy.

(Also…. Coach better)

Here’s the 2nd part of the quote that shows how our NIL collective matches up. With the NIL portal imo it’s just going to get worse unless we are creative. I would do what Mack Brown did and go after established players at lower levels with a chip on their shoulder. Top G5, or FCS guys. Even those top guys will be picked over but i think there is enough.

 

[Cuse181]

Is this possible or rational I don’t know. I just want to see Cuse with a good program and staying the course is not going to lead to that. People say that Dino has improved the program and brought in more talent. I don’t know about that. He inherited good pieces to that ‘18 roster.

3 years before... He still had to develop that talent... Credit where credit is due, this wasnt shafer's bowl season, 2018 was 3 years later and Dino (or his coordinators) deserve full credit for it.

 

[orangecuse]

Clemson is a loaded 25th ranked team (SRS). NC and FSU are top 10. (BTW I fondly remember the brainiacs freak out when I said that FSU was good last year)

It's not that big a deal when an average team gets murdered by a top ten team.

I don't know if people are upset to realize we are average or if they knew it and are upset at how hopeless it is for average teams

It was fun to have a good start and maybe that was worse than it should've been but people should reserve the anger for losses to Pitt and bc, if it happens

We never had three game stretches like this in the big east, maybe that's the issue

Well, UNC isn't a Top 10 team, technically. Additionally, it wasn't that long ago that many folks, even the "brainiacs" you refer to, considered UNC a peer type school. Furthermore, I'm not so sure we are even an average team, considering 3 of our wins are against incredible inferior non P5 schools.

Moreover, Dino has had only one season to date where he finished above .500 in conference, a conference mind you, that other than Clemson has been pretty average at best.

 

[Deleted member 8116]

Pitt has 37 PA kids on their roster.

I was just looking at their class from this year.
People act like there isn’t talent in NY. The problem is they are from NYC (not always) and they go elsewhere.
Syracuse didn’t get 1 of the top 10 recruits from NYS. They lost a WR in their own backyard to Michigan State.

Other teams they lost NY recruits to not including Rutgers include Wisconsin, Penn State, Georgia, Minnesota. These guys are 3 stars and most likely just depth pieces at these schools.

 

[orangecuse]

We also sit in the middle of a recruiting dessert. The region simply doesn't produce scale of talent like other peer programs we play. And comparing us to national programs like ND and Michigan is just goofy.

Saturday we got torched by a guy that's a top three NFL pick that grew up in NC, dad went to UNC, and brother was a hero at UNC. That - is an outlier...

Yeah, we can't even get a sniff out of our legacy guys kids nowadays. Marvin Harrison Jr. is just one example...

 

[CousCuse]

You can think that, doesn't change the fact that at the moment it doesn't look like he will anywhere near an NFL draft stage.

As LVille climbs the rankings he will shoot up the board.

 

[Bayside44]

I was just looking at their class from this year.
People act like there isn’t talent in NY. The problem is they are from NYC and they go elsewhere.

There isn't next to our competitors. The last four star QB out of the 315 was Mike Paulus maybe?

Wake has 25 NC kids. UNC has 56. Never mind NCSU, Duke, and the other two G5 schools in that state.

 

[orangecuse]

Jawahr Jordan was never the starter for us. He was a situational back, at best.

In two seasons, he only carried the ball 44 times, and only played in 8 games total in 2 seasons.

Interesting. What does that say about Dino? A "situational back at best." Wasn't Sean Tucker discovered by accident so to speak? If I recall correctly, he was buried as the number 3 guy on the depth chart until injury and deflections happened, no?

 

[Deleted member 8116]

There isn't next to our competitors. The last four star QB out of the 315 was Mike Paulus maybe?

Wake has 25 NC kids. UNC has 56. Never mind NCSU, Duke, and the other two G5 schools in that state. l

https://rivals./state_rankings/2022/new_york

Look ‘20-‘24 and tell me how many NY recruits we lost to teams out of state. You don’t even have to count Rutgers, I’ll give you that.

 

[Bayside44]

https://rivals./state_rankings/2022/new_york

Look ‘20-‘24 and tell me how many NY recruits we lost to teams out of state. You don’t even have to count Rutgers, I’ll give you that.

I'd like for us to have them. But just pointed to NC (or Maryland, or NJ) the state just doesn't produce a lot of them and we would have to hit on almost every kid.

The teams committing crimes against in-state recruiting seem to be UVa and VT.

 

[Deleted member 8116]

I'd like for us to have them. But just pointed to NC (or Maryland, or NJ) the state just doesn't produce a lot of them and we would have to hit on almost every kid.

The teams committing crimes against in-state recruiting seem to be UVa and VT.

Don’t have to hit on almost every kid. But have to do better than 3 out of 25 the last 4 years. Now imagine a coach able to get 20/25.

 

[bt4421]

I think fans think too hard on all of this. It's not rocket science. In College football, coaching matters, and it matters big time. As has been stated many times and is as plain as the light of day, Syracuse will not be able to compete on a facilities and or NIL level with the likes of the higher echelon of schools in the ACC and P5. I think for the most part Syracuse fans, myself included have an expectation to complete on par against the next level of schools with facilities and NIL.

So given this is fact, the one thing and one thing only that sets apart a good 2nd level school from others is coaching. We see it play out all the time. I was very hopeful that DB could be that guy and have been all on board with giving him this much time, which often is very necessary. Coaches who have success need that time to build a staff and a system. However, I think enough is enough. After all the years DB has had, I dont even yet know what our identity is. Poor recruiting and throw in the lack of on field discipline and clock management and this is what we are and why we have been a bottom feeder.

A change in coaching at this point cant make things worse can it? I mean c'mon. How much worse can it get? Having said that, if there is no change, I'll still be pulling for Dino to improve. And in the meantime, enjoy sports for what they are. A bit of entertainment. I know that would not go over well in the south, as unfortunately football is worshiped. I say unfortunately because it's way out of priorities.