How to Fix SU Football?

[Dick_in_MI]

However, Syracuse simply doesn't have the financial might to compete for championships consistently. I honestly don't think that is a controversial statement.

No, but it IS a strawman. Not as big a strawman as "we will never be Alabama", but a strawman none-the-less.

Nobody says we have to be ACC champions (or be Alabama). Getting to bowls regularly (based upon the fact that you only need a pulse to get to the lower tier bowls) is reasonable and it is what most fans see as reasonable too.

Being competitive with our peer schools is a reasonable expectation as well. We are in a P5 conference. There have to be goals. Like any goal, you do need to stretch yourself.

This year (and last) we will achieve the bowl expectation. The last half of the year will determine whether we are competitive with our peers.

Then we have to see if we can do both consistently, ala the goals that Dino set forth when he was hired.

We will never consistently be on a par with certain ACC schools who view football the same way the SEC schools view football (and throw the same kind of $$$ at it).

Our goals are simple: winning seasons, bowls, don't suck when we do play the ranked teams, have occasional great years, and try to be better than our peers. Those seem like sensible goals.

 

[CuseIsGodsTeam]

Syracuse has no money…..

Apparently having no money and having no ability to raise money has led to the new football facility construction and a multi million dollar Dome renovation. Enrollment of what 22,000 with plenty of trust fund babies costing 72K a year, nope, no money here!

 

[CousCuse]

You use the term "relative", I don't even know if that is a true statement, but what is true and makes these times different than the historical past, is that it is legal to pay players now, and players are picking schools based on how much money you are going to give them. Look up the University of Utah, they just gave every single scholarship player a brand new truck, I think Ford F150's every player! What can we give our kids?

The big schools have been paying players all along, one way or another. Syracuse never got many huge recruits, it was built on 3 star guys. There are plenty of guys in the portal that want PT more than money as they want to show their ability to the NFL.

 

[CuseIsGodsTeam]

we can absolutely recruit PA New Jersey the mid-Atlantic in Florida just like we used to when we were successful and beating top programs.

just more we can’t it’s hopeless nonsense

 

[syracuse95]

You use the term "relative", I don't even know if that is a true statement, but what is true and makes these times different than the historical past, is that it is legal to pay players now, and players are picking schools based on how much money you are going to give them. Look up the University of Utah, they just gave every single scholarship player a brand new truck, I think Ford F150's every player! What can we give our kids?

Syracuse has improved it's athletics fundraising dramatically over the last 5 years. Dramatically. I give Wildhack a ton of credit in this regard, because it's not easy to do at Syracuse. I would argue that our financial position "relative" to the big schools is better now than it was 10-15-20 years ago. People are selling our donor base short. It's not as bad as its made out to be. Is it Bama or OSU level? Of course not. But from what I've been told, it's top half of the ACC.

What is true is that, because we didn't invest in any capital projects for 20 years, a lot of that funding is being soaked up by facilities investments. Those don't have the immediate impact of a splashy coaching hire or huge NIL payments, but they were necessary and they're underway. Down the road, if we can keep our donors engaged, I believe things will improve.

Financially, things aren't as bad as they seem. I do think that 10-15 years ago, they were worse than we knew.

 

[FrancoPizza]

We never had three game stretches like this in the big east, maybe that's the issue

That is part of the issue. Our best teams played softer schedules compared to what we face in the ACC.

Take 1992 - a top 3 SU team in the modern era. 92 they played a ranked Ohio St, BC, and Miami. Went 1-2 in that stretch. Throw in Colorado and they went 2-2. Solid. But the rest of that schedule was WEAK. And they had help from the refs (the irony) to avoid an ugly loss at WV.

High NFL draft picks on that squad - Mitchell and Gedney. Might have had a few fringe late rounders. That’s it. Got lucky with key starters lasting an entire season. The strength of that team was high level college athletes who weren’t quite pro material.

Point being - we might be closer talent wise than we think to competing on a bigger stage. We need a system and identity that works to our advantage.

Now the McNabb years - we recruited at an elite level at the skill positions. Average-to-mediocre line play. Those teams would’ve killed it with a fast tempo and simplifying the playbook. Too many of their What losses might be pinned on over complicating things. A shame.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I am with you, but averaging 8 - 4 is a big ask. Hope you right as to what we might be able to do, but until we see the dollars averaging 7 - 5 is probably more in our wheelhouse.

Not in my opinion. Three punching bags; one peer among P5 schools, and then 5-3 or 4-4 in conference. That gets you 8 every year, depending on if you beat your "Purdue-style" opponent.

If you don't expect that we can play roughly .500 ball in our own conference, then maybe we should give up football or move down a league.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Everyone is blaming the Coach...The real issue is lack of talent. Take Duke you sited, they beat us out for the QB Leonard, who is a stud! They have a good coach, who can recruit, but they have more talent. Syracuse is going to struggle bringing in talent to compete with their peers in the ACC. We can always schedule a favorable non conference schedule, and win a few toss up games against lower talent ACC schools and win 6-7 games, that is who Syracuse football is and will be unless we get more funding. That is our reality, why can't people accept that?

All those teams I listed lack talent and funding. Yet they win games. The ACC level is above Dino's capabilities.

 

[CousCuse]

Syracuse has improved it's athletics fundraising dramatically over the last 5 years. Dramatically. I give Wildhack a ton of credit in this regard, because it's not easy to do at Syracuse. I would argue that our financial position "relative" to the big schools is better now than it was 10-15-20 years ago. People are selling our donor base short. It's not as bad as its made out to be. Is it Bama or OSU level? Of course not. But from what I've been told, it's top half of the ACC.

What is true is that, because we didn't invest in any capital projects for 20 years, a lot of that funding is being soaked up by facilities investments. Those don't have the immediate impact of a splashy coaching hire or huge NIL payments, but they were necessary and they're underway. Down the road, if we can keep our donors engaged, I believe things will improve.

Financially, things aren't as bad as they seem. I do think that 10-15 years ago, they were worse than we knew.

The problem is that it appears there is a strong possibility that a re-alignment of ACC teams could come sooner than expected.

 

[richmondcuse03]

We need to be realistic about SU’s place in the football world. Competing for championships won’t be the goal. It’s impossible for a school like Syracuse unless we catch lightning in a bottle in an expanded playoff situation. And that’s a once In a decade moment. The goal is consistent bowl games and every third or fourth year is a 9/10 win season.

I think the difference is being somewhat competitive in a game like UNC. That was embarrassing. Clemson we killed ourselves. Unc we didn’t belong in the same field and that’s sad. Dino better have the guys refocused for FSU. I get being overmatched talent wise but we were also out coached and schemed.

 

[Iony44ny]

I’d argue that this board is probably the ONLY place where most people completely understand our place in the college football world.

All we read here is post after post about getting bowl eligible, and how 7-8 win seasons are big deals for the program.

It’s everyone outside of here who thinks we should be on the same level as the power programs. That’s why we had 10K empty seats when we played Clemson.

I’d be happy with 7-8 wins every year. But I want those losses to at least be competitive. Getting beat by one or two scores, fine. Complete blowouts are what’s frustrating, especially when self made mistakes are correctable(with the proper coach/coaching).

 

[IthacaMatt]

What? He was the starter until he got hurt and then left because he didn’t want to compete with Tucker for snaps at TB and play in the slot

Jawahr Jordan was never the starter for us. He was a situational back, at best.

In two seasons, he only carried the ball 44 times, and only played in 8 games total in 2 seasons.

 

[GoSU96]

Everyone is blaming the Coach...The real issue is lack of talent. Take Duke you sited, they beat us out for the QB Leonard, who is a stud! They have a good coach, who can recruit, but they have more talent. Syracuse is going to struggle bringing in talent to compete with their peers in the ACC. We can always schedule a favorable non conference schedule, and win a few toss up games against lower talent ACC schools and win 6-7 games, that is who Syracuse football is and will be unless we get more funding. That is our reality, why can't people accept that?

That’s too pessimistic

 

[GoSU96]

All those teams I listed lack talent and funding. Yet they win games. The ACC level is above Dino's capabilities.

Last year they beat Lville, Purdue, UVA, NCSt, BC

lost to Wake, Pitt, Minn

This year beat Purdue

That”s 6-3 against peers the last two seasons , is that above Dinos capability?

Could be 11-3 going into a bowl game, what would that say?

 

[GoSU96]

Jawahr Jordan was never the starter for us. He was a situational back, at best.

In two seasons, he only carried the ball 44 times, and only played in 8 games total in 2 seasons.

He was in the 20 season until he got hurt

 

[GoSU96]

He's better than Tucker.

Jordan chose to leave

 

[Cusefan69]

If there was either an easy or certain fix for the challenges Syracuse has encountered in finding consistent success, then those would have already taken place. Which goes to show that this process is as much of a crap shoot as anything. (Though once you put some back to back years together. the sustainability is a bit easier because those years are helping drive talent into the fold.) So many things need to go right. My take is continue to show you are willing to put money in, if more is needed keep trying to find it and at some point it will happen. Our staff is getting paid better, additions to locker rooms and weight rooms happened which are pluses. I am fine if we move on as Dino was given a fair shot if that ends up the decision. I do support giving coaches some runway though.

 

[cusefan88]

No, but it IS a strawman. Not as big a strawman as "we will never be Alabama", but a strawman none-the-less.

Nobody says we have to be ACC champions (or be Alabama). Getting to bowls regularly (based upon the fact that you only need a pulse to get to the lower tier bowls) is reasonable and it is what most fans see as reasonable too.

Being competitive with our peer schools is a reasonable expectation as well. We are in a P5 conference. There have to be goals. Like any goal, you do need to stretch yourself.

This year (and last) we will achieve the bowl expectation. The last half of the year will determine whether we are competitive with our peers.

Then we have to see if we can do both consistently, ala the goals that Dino set forth when he was hired.

We will never consistently be on a par with certain ACC schools who view football the same way the SEC schools view football (and throw the same kind of $$$ at it).

Our goals are simple: winning seasons, bowls, don't suck when we do play the ranked teams, have occasional great years, and try to be better than our peers. Those seem like sensible goals.

I was only replying to the post about the assumption Cuse should compete for championships regularly.

I wholeheartedly agree with your expectations.

 

[IthacaMatt]

We need to be realistic about SU’s place in the football world. Competing for championships won’t be the goal. It’s impossible for a school like Syracuse unless we catch lightning in a bottle in an expanded playoff situation. And that’s a once In a decade moment. The goal is consistent bowl games and every third or fourth year is a 9/10 win season.

I think the difference is being somewhat competitive in a game like UNC. That was embarrassing. Clemson we killed ourselves. Unc we didn’t belong in the same field and that’s sad. Dino better have the guys refocused for FSU. I get being overmatched talent wise but we were also out coached and schemed.

Really? Seems like you are a member of the "Welcome to Loserville" crowd, too.

Are we any worse, historically speaking, than the following list of teams, just off the top of my head? Here are the win totals these teams put up over the last 10 seasons.

• Minnesota - 11 wins, 9 wins 3 times, 8 wins twice, 7, 5 and 3
• Wake Forest - 11 wins, 8 wins 3 times; 7, 4 and 3 wins twice each
• Cincinnati - 13 wins (!), 11 wins twice, 9 wins four times, 7 wins once, 4 wins twice
• Louisville - 12 wins (!), 9 wins twice, 8 wins four times, 6 wins, 4 wins and 2 wins
• Purdue - 9 wins, 8, 7, 6, 4, 3 (2X), 2 and 1 win
• West Virginia - 10 wins, 8 (2X), 7 (2x), 6 (2x), 5 (2x), 4 (2x)
• Arizona State - 10 wins twice (!), 8 wins twice, 7 wins twice, 6, 5, 3, 2, 1
• Boston College - 7 wins 5 times, 6 wins 3 times, 3 wins twice
• Oregon State - 10 wins, 7 wins twice, 5 wins 3 times, 4 wins, 2 wins 3 times, 1 win
• Maryland - 8 wins, 7 wins (3x), 5 wins, 4 (2x), 3 (2x), 2 wins
• Utah - 11 wins, 10 wins (3x), 9 wins (3x), 7, 5 and 3 wins
• Ole Miss - 10 wins twice, 9 wins, 8 wins twice, 6 wins, 5 wins (3x), 4
• Oklahoma State - 12 wins, 10 wins FOUR times, 8 (2x), 7 wins (3x)
• Kansas State - 10 wins, 9 twice, 8 wins four times, 6, 5 and 4

Are ANY of these teams our historical superiors? Is there any reason we should be a team that can win around 8 games most years? All of these teams seem to do it, except BC, but they've still made bowl games 8 of the last 10 years.

I'm really disappointed by the defeatism on this board, about "our rightful place" in college football.

 

[IthacaMatt]

He was in the 20 season until he got hurt

In 2020, he was on the field for only 34 plays in 3 games. That's not a starter. Sorry.

 

[Cuse181]

That is not reason to keep the guy for year 9. In fact if we go 7-5 and he has only one year left on his contract, it is better to move on. You can't let him coach a lame duck season. His 8 years is not worth extending his contract.

You would fire a coach who went to back to back bowl games prior his last contract season? You dont think it would help to keep that 3-5 extra million to use as a sweetener for a coach in 2025?

 

[Cuse181]

He's better than Tucker.

He wanst better than tucker on the same team, let alone in general. One would be hard pressed to beat the "sit shrader" posts on the dumb scale but yet here we are.

 

[Cuse181]

Syracuse has no money…..

Apparently having no money and having no ability to raise money has led to the new football facility construction and a multi million dollar Dome renovation. Enrollment of what 22,000 with plenty of trust fund babies costing 72K a year, nope, no money here!

Not for anything but those "trust fund babies" go to school for ya know... School? Not for sports... That money should be spent on the SCHOOL first and foremost.

 

[GoSU96]

In 2020, he was on the field for only 34 plays in 3 games. That's not a starter. Sorry.

Wrong

Freshman Year (2020): Appeared in three games, with three starts at running back, before suffering a season-ending injury against Georgia Tech … Carried the ball 29 times for 72 yards on the season, while adding five receptions for 34 yards and one kickoff return for 22 yards … Had a career-high 14 carries for 26 yards at North Carolina (9/12) … Ran 13 times for 40 yards at Pitt (9/10).

 

[anomander]

I thought we were a net positive in this new NIL portal? HC doesn’t seem to think so.