How to Handle an Early Departure

[Melancer46]

why am i getting this sinking sensation kennard and the duke core will return . that's a head scratcher.

I'd be shocked if Grayson Allen doesn't return. Kennard will be an interesting case. There's a pretty good chance he's only a 2nd round pick but I'm not sure he can really improve his stock either. I think his decision could go either way; my guess is he returns.

 

[br801]

We haven't had talented guys stay long enough during the OAD era to know. Warrick and Christmas are the closest we've got. Warrick had a good career and it looks like Christmas will stick around a little longer at least.

The difference is NBA readiness vs. draft stock. They're unrelated, which is perhaps the hardest thing for JB to wrap his head around. As a coach, he wants to send NBA ready players to the NBA. Players, rightly so, want to go when their draft stock is as high as it's going to get. Ennis, Grant, and Lydon left early because they didn't think their draft stock would improve. That's fine, but it's also fine for JB to say they're not NBA ready because they're not or weren't. Ennis has struggled mightily from day 1 and Grant lucked out by landing on the Sixers where he could get playing time right away on a terrible team.

McCullough would have been a lottery pick if he came back for another year.

At best, McCullough would have been returning to game action in midseason after a year of rehab, just in time for conference play. How long would it have taken him to knock off the rust? What if he didn't look good and his numbers were disappointing? What if he didn't feel quite right but pushed himself to stay on the court and reinjured himself? That's a lot to consider, and while he very well may have played himself into the lottery with another season at SU, he easily could have wound up on the outside of the first round (or worse) and then what? I think he made a good decision, and things may ultimately work out for him in Washington or elsewhere.

 

[Brooky03]

I think this is accurate. I just don't think that staying in school turns a marginal NBA player into something any better, which is what some posters seem to think. That by staying four years automatically turns someone into a an NBA starter. Outside of the true basketball talents that go in the top-5 or so, it's hit or miss. The average production by draft pick or tier bears that out.

And as, Toga posted earlier, how does that help SU in anyway? Privately give them honest evaluations, provide them the information they need, and whatever their decision, then publicly wish them the best of luck and thank them for playing at SU. Disparaging players to the press is just pointless and juvenile. I think JAB has a good eye for NBA skills, but his public attitude is unbecoming and not something I admire in him.

It helps Syracuse in that it speaks to JB's character and demeanor. He's a 'what you get is what you see' kind of coach. He doesn't blow smoke up players' butts. Some recruits will like that, some will not. I'd argue the ones who don't like that are not players we'd want in the program.

I don't think NBA teams or pro scouts put much, if any, value in what a college coach thinks of his players' talents. They might be interested in what a player is like off the court, but they'd leave the talent evaluation to themselves. So I don't think JB is hurting any of these players by telling the truth to the media.

 

[Brooky03]

At best, McCullough would have been returning to game action in midseason after a year of rehab, just in time for conference play. How long would it have taken him to knock off the rust? What if he didn't look good and his numbers were disappointing? What if he didn't feel quite right but pushed himself to stay on the court and reinjured himself? That's a lot to consider, and while he very well may have played himself into the lottery with another season at SU, he easily could have wound up on the outside of the first round (or worse) and then what? I think he made a good decision, and things may ultimately work out for him in Washington or elsewhere.

McCullough was drafted on upside and that wouldn't have changed much with one more year under his belt. Assuming he was brought back with low re-injury risk, even lackluster numbers wouldn't have hurt him much. If he came back and produced at the same level he did before the injury (which wasn't much), NBA teams would still project him late first round based on upside. They'd take into consideration the effects of the injury on his play and they'd probably consider it a plus that they know he's back from injury and good to go. If he came back and played well by the end of the season, he'd be a lottery pick. Re-injury is not common nowadays for players coming off of knee surgery. The chance of re-injury was lower than the chance of playing at least as well as pre-injury. But the risk was still there and it was apparently enough for CMac to decide to leave.

 

[Day2]

It has ZERO bearing on how you interact with the media. If he's not Carmelo, then fine. But don't go to the media like he did with Ennis, or with Cmac. It hurts the kid and it hurts you prospects with luring elite talent.

He didn't go to the media. They asked him questions and he answered.

 

[HOFCeluck]

He didn't go to the media. They asked him questions and he answered.

"They made their decision. I wish them luck."

 

[Day2]

No, the post was not specific to Tatum. It was about how Boeheim generally speaking never encourages players to leave early for the draft. And worse than that, how he almost always tells the media how he doesn't think the player is ready. That may often be the case, but you say that to the player and his family, not the newspapers and ESPN. That makes you look like a jerk who is trying to prevent a kid from fulfilling his dream. It comes off as selfish.

If he were more balanced, then maybe talking to the media would be OK, but he's not, for the most part. He did say about Tyus Battle that he's going to be a pro for a long time at the beginning of this year, so that's good. But Battle is planning to be here for 2 years, so it doesn't ruffle Boeheim's plans.

Melo wanted to come back and JB told him to go pro. He was supportive of Wes Johnson as well. Name a player who was ready that JB "bashed."

 

[Ward]

Brooklyn didn't need him, so his rehab was extended about a month longer than it needed to be based on reports. Rehab is rehab, and Syracuse has access to some pretty darn good doctors and trainers. There wouldn't have been much difference in the rehab regimen, but Cuse probably would have put him back on the court when he was ready (low re-injury risk) instead of waiting at least a few weeks more than necessary to protect a multi-million dollar investment.

If he came back for most of conference play and played well, showing improvement as postseason came around, he would have shot back up into the lottery. He was a lotto pick who dropped out of the lottery because of the uncertainty around the injury. Take away that uncertainty and his draft stock jumps a ton.

Even just the bolded part there is a big difference. McCullough was able to be patient with his recovery and take his time through it without having to worry about rushing back to protect his draft status.

He had a child on the way and a first round promise from his hometown team after suffering a serious injury. Tough to turn that down for an unknown outcome. And not to say this was a huge factor in his decision, because it shouldn't have been, but I don't think it helped when you're weighing your options and you think about going back and improving your draft stock by playing for a coach who trashed you in public when a mock draft came out suggesting you as a lottery pick.

 

[Day2]

He was good with Melo, Flynn, Wes, Dion, MCW. The guys he was harsh on are pretty much proving him out.

That sounds balanced to me.

 

[tbonezone]

Melo wanted to come back and JB told him to go pro. He was supportive of Wes Johnson as well. Name a player who was ready that JB "bashed."

this is really comic book stuff.

 

[Bayside44]

I was meaning for the Syracuse guys compared to others. Posters like to slag on Greene and others for leaving early and not becoming 10-year starters (although, to be honest I can't for the life of me pin down what any naysayers seems to think the average expectation is for a draft pick). Does Bayside think Greene et al would have had longer more successful careers had they stayed in school? Does that go for everyone? Why aren't all college seniors NBA stars?

The NBA is insanely difficult to be successful in for any length of time. Staying in school for four years vs leaving early doesn't guarantee squat.

Since you asked, and I agree with a couple of other posters here, I think these guys need to have their NBA skill more polished when they go, unless they are some sort of unicorn or basically fully formed. There have been threads bout Hield and Smart for instance dropping in some ranking verses where they went but their games were more mature and that will help with their longevity.

 

[Day2]

"They made their decision. I wish them luck."

It's funny how sports fans say they want players, coaches and execs to be more honest...and that's the very thing JB gets bashed for the most.

 

[HOFCeluck]

It's funny how sports fans say they want players, coaches and execs to be more honest...and that's the very thing JB gets bashed for the most.

Youre right. It's an issue without degrees or nuance.

 

[OttoMets]

It's funny how sports fans say they want players, coaches and execs to be more honest...and that's the very thing JB gets bashed for the most.

I agree with this, which is why I won't criticize Boeheim on this matter (for the most part). There's something to be said for presenting a positive face and not alienating the guys who win the games, though. Fine line between being a good interview and being self-defeating, at which point there won't be any interviews (which is why coach-speak exists).

 

[Briancuse]

Have you read the newspapers the past few seasons when the subject of players turning pro comes up.

There are a lot worse things than being told you aren't ready for the Nba after a year.

 

[Day2]

this is really comic book stuff.

This is the exact same story Melo and JB told Letterman in 2003 (can't find it online).

 

[Day2]

Youre right. It's an issue without degrees or nuance.

"They made their decision. I wish them luck," is not being honest or nuanced. It's a stock answer.

(At best, it's being honest to the smallest of degrees.)

 

[HOFCeluck]

"They made their decision. I wish them luck," is not being honest or nuanced. It's a stock answer.

(At best, it's being honest to the smallest of degrees.)

No. I mean never asked for transparency at all times. Especially when it's not constructive in anyway.

 

[IthacaMatt]

It's funny how sports fans say they want players, coaches and execs to be more honest...and that's the very thing JB gets bashed for the most.

You don't have to have those conversations in the newspapers. That's the point. Nobody is against honest feedback (except for the players' family or handlers, sometimes).

 

[Day2]

No. I mean never asked for transparency at all times. Especially when it's not constructive in anyway.

Doesn't bother me (obviously). And I disagree that it's not constructive in any way. He's right about which players are ready and which aren't. Precisely the type of balance some are calling for. And in the macro, we need more coaches and analysts calling out players for leaving early when they aren't ready. We talk about how it's ruining the game at both levels. You can't fix it if nobody talks about it.

 

[Day2]

You don't have to have those conversations in the newspapers. That's the point. Nobody is against honest feedback (except for the players' family or handlers, sometimes).

Again, JB's not going out of his way. A reporter asks a question and he gives the usual, honest, unfiltered assessment. That's who he is and it's not going to change. Agree to disagree.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Doesn't bother me (obviously). And I disagree that it's not constructive in any way. He's right about which players are ready and which aren't. Precisely the type of balance some are calling for. And in the macro, we need more coaches and analysts calling out players for leaving early when they aren't ready. We talk about how it's ruining the game at both levels. You can't fix it if nobody talks about it.

Yeah. Calling players out publicly has really turned the tide hasn't it?

 

[Day2]

Yeah. Calling players out publicly has really turned the tide hasn't it?

What was that you were saying about degrees and nuance?

 

[br801]

Brooklyn didn't need him, so his rehab was extended about a month longer than it needed to be based on reports. Rehab is rehab, and Syracuse has access to some pretty darn good doctors and trainers. There wouldn't have been much difference in the rehab regimen, but Cuse probably would have put him back on the court when he was ready (low re-injury risk) instead of waiting at least a few weeks more than necessary to protect a multi-million dollar investment.

If he came back for most of conference play and played well, showing improvement as postseason came around, he would have shot back up into the lottery. He was a lotto pick who dropped out of the lottery because of the uncertainty around the injury. Take away that uncertainty and his draft stock jumps a ton.

Assuming you were in McCullough's situation and had reasonable assurance from the Nets that they would take you in that position if you were were still on the board, what would you have done?

 

[Brooky03]

Assuming you were in McCullough's situation and had reasonable assurance from the Nets that they would take you in that position if you were were still on the board, what would you have done?

I would have left