How to (start) to improve attendance | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

How to (start) to improve attendance

Here's a fun fact...

SU hoops has been ranked in the top 25 at some point during the regular season for 42 of the last 43 years.

SU football has not been ranked at all in 14 years, and has been ranked at some point during the regular season 30 times in poll history, going back to the 1930s.
incredible.

none of us can know but is it enough to be exciting or does the football program need to be great too

a lot of people on the board (not representative, i know) remember 2002 a lot more fondly than 2006 and 2009. I think the reason why is because three of the games were 34-37, 38-35, and 50-42. people even think that nunes was ok that year and he wasn't at all.

you need to be exciting and great to lead the country in basketball attendance but maybe just being exciting somewhat consistently would be enough to average 40k for football
 
We have a beautiful baseball park, right off an interstate highway, surrounded by a huge parking lot that's convenient for tailgating, and people complain that they won't go because it should have been built smack dab in the middle of downtown where there's no easy access or parking.

We have a Dome that's built smack dab in the middle of a college campus where there's no easy access or parking, and people complain that they won't go because there isn't a huge parking lot that's convenient for tailgating.

I don't get it. And I've lived here for over 50 years. :noidea:
 
Reg, this is a great post.

But here's something I find alarming- the inability of people in Syracuse to let things go. They built the ballpark on the Northside 20 years ago instead of downtown, and you still won't go? A crotchety AD 10 years removed said something you don't like, and you're still against Cuse football because of it?

Or worse, there's a few things to be excited about with the football team this year, but they're still "lousy" so you won't go?

I understand there's a ton of anger over industries leaving, over poor leadership, over poverty and winter and losing records. I think Cuse football is very much the victim of the CNY mentality that something else bad is going to happen.
Yeah right, it's amazing that I still hear people harp on this type stuff. And as I said I don't know if they're more parochial and likely to hold a grudge here more so than elsewhere but I do know it stuck in my craw for years. Obviously never enough to stop going or stay connected but I get the angst I guess.

So that's where this is coming from. Time to put it to bed for good, it would be a win win....I could stop having to hear this stuff and the teams could have more people at their games.....I think.
 
All of the former season ticket holders that i know claim the usual excuses.
But all of them are still serious fans who now go out to bars to watch the
games. Momentum works both on the upside and downside. Chicken/eggs
but near sell outs make the dome the place to be creating buzz and interest.
Low attendance creates its own momentum making the excuses seem
reasonable. It is a long road back.
 
We have a beautiful baseball park, right off an interstate highway, surrounded by a huge parking lot that's convenient for tailgating, and people complain that they won't go because it should have been built smack dab in the middle of downtown where there's no easy access or parking.

We have a Dome that's built smack dab in the middle of a college campus where there's no easy access or parking, and people complain that they won't go because there isn't a huge parking lot that's convenient for tailgating.

I don't get it. And I've lived here for over 50 years. :noidea:
I think what you are saying is that parking really doesn't matter a heck of a lot. It's not the parking. It's the winning.
 
You need to serve all customers and Millhouse is a season ticket holder. So, Grinder too.
If Tinder is a rip off of Grinder, is Tinder pronounced Tine-der or is Grinder pronounced Grin-der?
 
Millhouse said:
If Tinder is a rip off of Grinder, is Tinder pronounced Tine-der or is Grinder pronounced Grin-der?

Yes
 
Marsh01 made a post yesterday on another thread yesterday that his children were very much not interested in SU football because the product has been so terrible. I got thinking about my niece and nephew who are 17 and 15 and both basketball fans and they each got to three or 4 games a year. I would not be surprised if either one of them decided to attend Syracuse, but they are not fans of the football program.

My nephew has been to a few football games over the years, one being the Clemson game two years ago in the Dome when they absolutely smoked us with Watkins and Boyd. He loves college football more than the NFL, thinks it's more exciting, but he's not an SU fan. He has no knowledge of Syracuse ever being any good in football. He openly roots for Clemson when they play. I asked him why he doesn't root for Syracuse, and he said too many games he's watched we had already lost by halftime, and it just wasn't exciting for him to watch.

How do we get people younger than 25 interested in the program? That is the key. They are the future. The 30, 40, and 50 somethings can debate all day, but we really need the younger fans to move the program forward. Thats why I think it would be incredibly stupid to move the football stadium off campus. You basically are saying you don't give a crap about the students on campus who are your future donors and alumni.
 
He openly roots for Clemson when they play. I asked him why he doesn't root for Syracuse, and he said too many games he's watched we had already lost by halftime, and it just wasn't exciting for him to watch.

How do we get people younger than 25 interested in the program?
The answer is in there.
 
Marsh01 made a post yesterday on another thread yesterday that his children were very much not interested in SU football because the product has been so terrible. I got thinking about my niece and nephew who are 17 and 15 and both basketball fans and they each got to three or 4 games a year. I would not be surprised if either one of them decided to attend Syracuse, but they are not fans of the football program.

My nephew has been to a few football games over the years, one being the Clemson game two years ago in the Dome when they absolutely smoked us with Watkins and Boyd. He loves college football more than the NFL, thinks it's more exciting, but he's not an SU fan. He has no knowledge of Syracuse ever being any good in football. He openly roots for Clemson when they play. I asked him why he doesn't root for Syracuse, and he said too many games he's watched we had already lost by halftime, and it just wasn't exciting for him to watch.

How do we get people younger than 25 interested in the program? That is the key. They are the future. The 30, 40, and 50 somethings can debate all day, but we really need the younger fans to move the program forward. Thats why I think it would be incredibly stupid to move the football stadium off campus. You basically are saying you don't give a crap about the students on campus who are your future donors and alumni.
the bills were terrible when I was at that age when you start to pay attention (Bullough's dad was the coach). games where the stadium was a quarter full. buy cheap seats, move to the 40 yard line, get killed.

when they're little, you don't give them a choice and you make them go to lots of games. i tell my four year old who we root for. his grandfather gave him a red sox hat. I said, i hope you have the receipt, he's never wearing it. iron fist indoctrination - everything else, whatever, be whoever you want as long as it's a bills/yankees/sabres/orangemen fan
 
Great post CR. I'll ask the most obvious question... Why do people feel a connection to the hoops program and not the football program?


The answer of course is simple.

The BB team is a national program that wins or at the very least competes at the highest level.

If the FB team can approach that level of success the Dome will be filled.
 
xc84 said:
Consistently winning will get us to 45K+. Play with the other 5K any way you want.

Winning is the biggest key but that alone isn't getting us to $45k.
 
I think it’s really simple. People aren’t invested in the program anymore. As SWC stated, people need to be investors and not consumers. I will say that Pro sports you’re a consumer. College sports is about being an investor. It’s tough in Syracuse because it’s not the flagship state U. If it was we’d be having discussions on how big to make the stadium – not where to put it. So my point is why would I invest in a school/program I didn't attend. How do you get those people back ?

For a smallish D1 private school we should be shooting for 40K. Start marketing from Saratoga to Buffalo.

However….east of Utica – the Capital region up to Glens Falls and points in between. I could talk to 500 people today and I’d bet less than 5 have ever been to the Carrier Dome much less give two shitEs about Syracuse football. It’s hard to pull from that radius unless you’re playing exciting football and winning.

The biggest issue IMHO locally is that parking SUCKS and it’s a real issue. I know a ton of people in Syracuse who don’t want to hassle with parking or having to get on a bus so they stay home and watch it on TV. Cone-ing off both sides of the street up in that Wescott area is BULLSHITE.

(I used to love the the train to armory though)
 
The obvious answer is because the hoops program consistently wins, and generally has exciting play [yes, yes--the last two years have been hampered by anemic offense]. But when you recruit highly rated players and play an exciting brand of ball, the fans will flock to the games.
"last two"? I feel like we've had a terrible offense scheme for a very very long time... probably since AO busted his quad in the BET. Unfortunately that team was the exception not the rule. Now I know that people will point to 2011-2012 as a decent offense but we were only good then because we had an NBA 2 guard playing for us in Waiters... the scheme stunk then too. Even taking that into account, that was the last season you could even pretend we had a good offense and that was now three years ago.

Anyways, I don't want to go down a basketball rathole here on the football board... your broader point is well taken. Syracuse hoops does win and is known for fun basketball, well used to be.
 
When Stanford football sucked, their stands were empty even with plenty of $ and wealthy alumni within 50 miles of the place. I went to a gamer there versus BC and there was probably 18-20 k there. They started winning again and attendance improved dramatically. All the other stuff doesn't help and is probably total 20-25% of the problem. 75-80% is the consistent blow outs, losses, style of play and losing records. No other way to really look at it. Nobody really supports a loser for that long. I wonder what Kentucky football attendance has done with some success last year.

If you can get 30K for a basketball game, you can sell out 1 game a year, get 45-47 for 3-4 others and 40-44 for 3 others. It's not perfect, never has been but much better than we are now
 
Winning is the biggest key but that alone isn't getting us to $45k.
It did in the past and I will use that as my rationale. That does not mean SU should not make more changes. A renovated dome would help a ton. Ideas to improve game-day atmosphere are worthwhile too. Those are the kinds of things that may help smooth out attendance once the numbers are up. More people having a good experience may be more likely to endure down years a little bit longer before bailing.
 
Well all these 12:30 starts stink as well. In NY you have High School Football games and Youth Soccer on Saturdays. Down here in the South every High School plays their games on Friday Nights. Saturdays in the South are all about Collage Football and nothing else.
 
All of the former season ticket holders that i know claim the usual excuses.
But all of them are still serious fans who now go out to bars to watch the
games. Momentum works both on the upside and downside. Chicken/eggs
but near sell outs make the dome the place to be creating buzz and interest.
Low attendance creates its own momentum making the excuses seem
reasonable. It is a long road back.
yes it is, that why I titled it and referred to it throughout as a start. Gotta start somewhere, the rest can follow and hopefully winning makes it easier and get them over the top.
 
I will say this, I would much rather go to an away game to watch Syracuse than I would go to the dome, no comparison. I hate the freaking dome, hate it. Crowd sucks, scene sucks, etc. I go to about 2 games on the road and 4-5 home games a year at this point. Did I mention that I hate the freaking dome in Spetember and October.. it's just brutal in that Shite hole
 
I will say this, I would much rather go to an away game to watch Syracuse than I would go to the dome, no comparison. I hate the freaking dome, hate it. Crowd sucks, scene sucks, etc. I go to about 2 games on the road and 4-5 home games a year at this point. Did I mention that I hate the freaking dome in Spetember and October.. it's just brutal in that Shite hole
not looking forward to 85 degrees on saturday
 
Now that it appears there's a good chance that the program is trending upward again along with all the discussion on attendance it got the wheels spinning in the cranium. Apologies as the following will be long as I think out loud here.

The keys to success with this issue whether it be the Syracuse football program, the Chiefs or any team is getting fans to identify with the team as theirs. For so long this wasn't happening on the hill. Whether it was the rude ushers or ticket office people we all encountered or the previous admins ("Get a life" and "not in the business of firing coaches" fully acknowledging there was some unfair hyperbole with this), or the interactions some had with parts of the athletic dept. (me trying and failing to get the '59 National Championship ED and team signed ball donated up there), etc., the end result is a lack of connection with the program.

Combine the now decades long poor performance, add on all the other gripes legit or not (Dome location, style of play, etc.), all together is it any really wonder that there's attendance issue. Of course not. The question of course what can be done now to start to reverse the trend. Here's what can be done, at least a start.

Now the good thing is it's already started. Or at least I think it has. The attitudes and treatment received by the ticket office and general demeanor off all the ushers I've run across the last several years is light years better than it was years ago. Someone up there must have instituted some basic training on simple customer relations.

Now they need to take it to the next level. If you can get people to feel connected to the program as "their team" once again it will be easy to get people beyond their perceived greivances and logistical concerns (again Dome location, tix prices, concession, and even team performances). Simple basic customer service taking it to the next level which as noted some of which has already started.

In my line of work it affords the opportunity to really have a good feel on the pulse on the community through the exposure to a lot of people in it. And for right or for wrong people hold on to grudges and perceived slights. Now I have no idea if this is better or worse than elsewhere in the country but there's two things I continue to hear about in this town that bothers people (still!) and is often mentioned in sports discussions. Which I can only assume continues to effect attendance. Add in reading some of the comments in Axes it still apparently resonates today which to deny continues to be self defeating.

One is people are still upset about the baseball stadium being where it is and not being downtown the result it contributes to why they don't go. Now I know for me I've always said it made sense to put it downtown as it would attract the marginal baseball fans like me who'd end up going to more games simply for something more to do after a night out in the city. Made sense then, still makes sense today as a lost opportunity and is at least a part of the reason why they continue to have such attendance issues up there.

The other thing I continue to hear is how disconnected people feel from the university the genesis of it being the comments from SU referenced earlier that I also read in Axes article (again fans need to "get a life", etc.).

We need to forget for a second whether this should be an issue all these years later or if it's for right or for wrong. Need to forget if its legit or not. And rather simply acknowledge the end result of all this is a huge disconnect many of the locals feel. It's what they feel. This is simple reality whether one wants to acknowledge it or not as evidenced by the continued attendance concerns (it's not JUST poor performance, jobs leaving, greying of past fans, etc.).

Now let me preface the next comments by saying the Chiefs new guy HAS improved substantially the game day experience at a Chiefs game by light years, has brought energy and enthusiasm and is doing many good things long needed. But they continue to have abysmal attendance up there. Why? Mostly because of the disconnect/lack of connection and identification so many feel to that team, in part because of the location fiasco. They continue to fail in the big picture as noted by very weak attendance.

Like SU what is needed is an out of the box thinking by someone willing to put their neck out on the line and do something not easy and different. That is admit past errors, address concerns, perceived grievances (again for right or for wrong, legitimate reality based or not), and make public statements to help themselves get their programs better connected to the community they want to attend their games. In effect, to quote Jerry Maguire, help me to help you!

It's simple really. You want to be a success? Do the things most people don't want to do, yes work hard but work freaking smart too. Address the obvious. The obvious being so few people feel connected to your programs! The result being they don't want to go to your games.

In the case of the Chiefs I had the opportunity to talk to the Chiefs head guy recently and tried to bring up the issue that I have no question would help him to help himself. Address the old issue in some way shape or form about the stadium location that for right or for wrong continues to rankel so many, and make a statement to the effect, "I know a lot of folks in our town were understandably upset that the stadium location wasn't built downtown, I get it and can see that point completely, but it is what it is now and we need your help, we ask that you look past that now and get on board with us, join us, make us YOUR team, in your community in a partnership as we go to the future" or words to that effect.

Get that message out and watch the connections start to happen and improve where many would try and start to do just that. I wish I can say I was able to get that message through but I couldn't. Before even hearing me out he cut me off with the rah rah approach that "hey we're forward thinkers here, we don't plan on nor do we feel the need to go backward, we only go forward here". As I sat there looking at him I recalled the line I heard from coach Mac once when I was on my recruiting trip up to the hill where he said, "God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason".

The guy wouldn't even listen let alone comprehend that to move forward successfully sometimes you gotta look backwards, learn and then move forward. I felt sad as I left the stadium that night with TexanMark knowing they'll be continued failures up there with whatever the anemic attendance numbers continue to be as I noted on a gorgeous sat. night, on Fireworks night, with a team that won 11 games straight, there was only maybe a couple thousand people there.

Now as for SU I think in Coyle we're already hearing that he may very well indeed do what needs to be done to re-engage the community in tangible ways and I hope intangible ways as well. He seems like he has the personality and demeanor to really reach out to the community in ways not ever done here with not just platitudes but more appropriate words and perhaps actions. I like everything I hear and see from the new leadership up there so far and hope they too see the obvious. Forget whether right or wrong, legit or not they need to reconnect with their community. Or their sports minded customers.

Say they understand there's been past mistakes in public pronouncements and reactions to fans concerns re "Get a life", etc., perhaps past treatment of fans and maybe even say we're sorry (OMG aghast!) as they proclaim how badly they want not just people at the games but for them to feel that this is THEIR program, THEIR team. We are one, etc. said in whatever we are the world way, perhaps hokey way they choose to do it. Don't care if it's hokey, don't care what the naysayers and cynics will say, just say it.

Think outside the box, put themselves out there, listen with both ears, show humility, show concern, show excitement, energy and enthusiam for what we together as one, fans, players, coaches and administrators alike working together can achieve. Say we want you, we value you and in time you will value us and lets all together take this thing to the next level. It can be done. Lets do it they can say. It's simple really.
Great post. It certainly seems that there is a lot of work for SU to do in making things right with long-term supporters like yourself and many on this board. I would say that SU has done a good job this year reaching out to fans. Fanfest & staff like Dan Bartlett are good signs. The issue appears to be infinitely complicated. They've ticked off those that have supported the program for a long time and have lost a lot of their market at the same time. I'm among the 32% of the population that left CNY during the economic struggles of the last 50 years. The region has had to absorb a lot of underutilized homes, businesses, infrastructure, and long-term maintenance expenses for entities that had been developed when the area thrived but were left to be supported by a much smaller group of people. The poverty rate spiked partially because the more affluent folks were able to relocate. The less successful SU sport suffered in finding support among a population that was shrinking and becoming less affluent as a whole. The weather doesn't help the football cause either. Upstate New Yorkers have a limited outdoor season in one of the most beautiful areas of the country. It's easier to commit to a consistently successful sport during a season when hiking, boating, wine-touring, swimming, fishing, vacationing, don't compete for weekend time. I'm hoping to be a football regular for at least this year and next. I have more CNY projects than I can complete this year. As JB says, CNY is the most beautiful place in the world 6 months a year.

I think SU has a number of good options to get more people to the dome for football. Personally, I think free student tickets would help create a new generation of football fans, help make attending games more affordable for local families, and demonstrate that SU is serious about making football a community event. Giving free tickets to veterans or deeply discounting them would do the same. SU talks a lot about veterans and they could make a great statement of gratitude and increase attendance at the same time. Veterans have families. There is also a large population of snowbirds that migrate from CNY to the south and back with the changing seasons. It seems that packages that include early home games and later road games in the south could be good products. Atlanta, Raleigh, Charlottesville, Louisville, and other ACC cities are places we'd like to have some home field advantage, and do. SU could help that along. I think SU is working hard to improve the football program which will sell itself once SU can engage prospective fans, but they need to reach out to the demographics in the region. In order to fill the dome, SU needs to put about 10% of the population in the seats. Until they consistently have a better product, they'll need to be a better value for more families.
 
xc84 said:
It did in the past and I will use that as my rationale. That does not mean SU should not make more changes. A renovated dome would help a ton. Ideas to improve game-day atmosphere are worthwhile too. Those are the kinds of things that may help smooth out attendance once the numbers are up. More people having a good experience may be more likely to endure down years a little bit longer before bailing.

Back when we averaged that the price construct was a lot different.
 

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