How to (start) to improve attendance

[SWC75]

Well all these 12:30 starts stink as well. In NY you have High School Football games and Youth Soccer on Saturdays. Down here in the South every High School plays their games on Friday Nights. Saturdays in the South are all about Collage Football and nothing else.

I actually like 12:30 starts. You get home in time to watch the big games on TV.

 

[xc84]

Back when we averaged that the price construct was a lot different.

I have had season tickets since '92 and before that I went to about 90% of all games in the dome. I know the history. I know the prices. I know the dome and team well. I think current prices are extremely reasonable and "free" for students at the moment. We can disagree on this..it is fine with me...no biggy.

 

[Cuseregular]

Great post. It certainly seems that there is a lot of work for SU to do in making things right with long-term supporters like yourself and many on this board. I would say that SU has done a good job this year reaching out to fans. Fanfest & staff like Dan Bartlett are good signs. The issue appears to be infinitely complicated. They've ticked off those that have supported the program for a long time and have lost a lot of their market at the same time. I'm among the 32% of the population that left CNY during the economic struggles of the last 50 years. The region has had to absorb a lot of underutilized homes, businesses, infrastructure, and long-term maintenance expenses for entities that had been developed when the area thrived but were left to be supported by a much smaller group of people. The poverty rate spiked partially because the more affluent folks were able to relocate. The less successful SU sport suffered in finding support among a population that was shrinking and becoming less affluent as a whole. The weather doesn't help the football cause either. Upstate New Yorkers have a limited outdoor season in one of the most beautiful areas of the country. It's easier to commit to a consistently successful sport during a season when hiking, boating, wine-touring, swimming, fishing, vacationing, don't compete for weekend time. I'm hoping to be a football regular for at least this year and next. I have more CNY projects than I can complete this year. As JB says, CNY is the most beautiful place in the world 6 months a year.

I think SU has a number of good options to get more people to the dome for football. Personally, I think free student tickets would help create a new generation of football fans, help make attending games more affordable for local families, and demonstrate that SU is serious about making football a community event. Giving free tickets to veterans or deeply discounting them would do the same. SU talks a lot about veterans and they could make a great statement of gratitude and increase attendance at the same time. Veterans have families. There is also a large population of snowbirds that migrate from CNY to the south and back with the changing seasons. It seems that packages that include early home games and later road games in the south could be good products. Atlanta, Raleigh, Charlottesville, Louisville, and other ACC cities are places we'd like to have some home field advantage, and do. SU could help that along. I think SU is working hard to improve the football program which will sell itself once SU can engage prospective fans, but they need to reach out to the demographics in the region. In order to fill the dome, SU needs to put about 10% of the population in the seats. Until they consistently have a better product, they'll need to be a better value for more families.

you're right that fanfest was great and improved and I've already gone back to edit and add that into the original post, but that is great for those of us already invested in things. The locals they need to reach are not me and nor anyone likely on this board was the hoped for point of all this.

The challenges are what they are and have been the same for years. There not overcomable if we're talking trying to sell out the dome regulary as the goal, they can be overcome if rather we're defining success as averaging around 40k. Continue to be fan friendly as you note to those of us already invested by sprucing up the dome as is planned, fanfest, etc,; improve the product on the field which hopefully isn't a mirage and so far so good, and reach out as described to get more on board can be the recipe for (realistic) success.

 

[Toga]

$5-10 tickets for any HS player in CNY who can demonstrate they are on their HS team. Bring a regular paying person with you and you get in free.

 

[xc84]

Also, $25.00 to park your car is crazy!

similar to Bills games

 

[DoubleDee]

It is crazy to park for $25.00. Meaning you are crazy if you do.

I park on genesee st and walk. Have never paid to park in the last 20 years easy. Literally 100 yards from where I park there is a lot on game day for $20.00. Those people are crazy. Same distance walk. Why do it?

 

[SUFan44]

For those speaking about the pricing structure at the Dome, why do you think the previous administration put the pricing structure in place?

I'm just curious - I have not really looked that far in depth on the seating price structure.

I go to one game at the Dome a year - it's all I can do as my job has a lot of weekend obligations. If I had the ability to go more, I would. I know I would also try a lot harder if we were better, too. Right or wrong, it is what it is.

 

[xc84]

It is crazy to park for $25.00. Meaning you are crazy if you do.

I park on genesee st and walk. Have never paid to park in the last 20 years easy. Literally 100 yards from where I park there is a lot on game day for $20.00. Those people are crazy. Same distance walk. Why do it?

Glad you can find a free place and are happy with it. We buy a permit (1) so we never have to worry about finding a space or being towed and (2) because the lot we are in has great space for our tailgates and (3) it is closer than where you park.

It's not crazy.

 

[Finwad32]

It is crazy to park for $25.00. Meaning you are crazy if you do.

I park on genesee st and walk. Have never paid to park in the last 20 years easy. Literally 100 yards from where I park there is a lot on game day for $20.00. Those people are crazy. Same distance walk. Why do it?

We've parked at the garage on Waverly & S. Crouse for over a decade. That's where we tailgate with friends of ours and dodge the inclement weather if necessary. It just jumped to $25 this year. If it were to go up again, I'd find alternatives, just because I think it'd be crazy to pay as much to park as entry to the game.

 

[rrlbees]

I have had season tickets since '92 and before that I went to about 90% of all games in the dome. I know the history. I know the prices. I know the dome and team well. I think current prices are extremely reasonable and "free" for students at the moment. We can disagree on this..it is fine with me...no biggy.

You could look at the website for this weekends game and see what it costs for a sideline ticket. Mom and Dad aren't going to pay $80-140 for what they feel is a good seat. Those are the ones left almost empty and seen on TV.

 

[tipphill]

All of the former season ticket holders that i know claim the usual excuses.
But all of them are still serious fans who now go out to bars to watch the
games. Momentum works both on the upside and downside. Chicken/eggs
but near sell outs make the dome the place to be creating buzz and interest.
Low attendance creates its own momentum making the excuses seem
reasonable. It is a long road back.

read my reply under when did you stop attending su games thread. i do not fit that mold

 

[Consigliere]

Great question, CR and I think there are two facets to the answer. We've certainly lost support and STHers over the last 20 years as a function of substandard performance, the local economy, noon kickoffs that make it difficult for fans from out of town and a number of other factors that have been cited in this thread.

In terms of regaining or restoring that level of support there needs to be a sense of excitement about the program. Those of us on this board follow the developments in recruiting and facilities investments intimately but the casual fan knows only what they see in 3 minutes of highlights in the local media. I really do believe there have been efforts to reach out to the dormant fan base - one of the best value ticket packages in the P5, advertising presence throughout upstate NY, promotional events, etc.

The key resource that I believe is going untapped is to more fully utilize the existing STH community. Nothing markets a product like a delighted customer. The "Next Fan Up" promotion last year was a step in the right direction - a shame it was not repeated, but I think we can go further. I used my 4 comps from last year to bring two couples that were casual fans at best and one of the two stepped up and bought $125 seasons this year. I've recruited 10 new STHers in the last 4 years by stressing the social aspect of the games (FMT) and the bright future for the program.

Cuse did send out a survey on the game day experience to existing SHTers, but was there a targetted effort to reach out to newbies and determine what the driving factor was to get them on board? Has there ever been consideration given to a referral program where existing STHers can earn points to reduce their cost or toward Syracuse swag when they recruit new fans? Once we get them in the door are we effectively closing on the casual fan - offer an incentive for non-STHers to answer a survey and gain insight on what values drive their purchase decision and would increase the likelihood that they would consider attending more games?

Probably just the ex-retailer and data junkie in me that thinks these might be effective approaches to produce meaningful input into an integrated strategy but you gotta start somewhere.

 

[Ozcuse]

I think it’s really simple. People aren’t invested in the program anymore. As SWC stated, people need to be investors and not consumers. I will say that Pro sports you’re a consumer. College sports is about being an investor. It’s tough in Syracuse because it’s not the flagship state U. If it was we’d be having discussions on how big to make the stadium – not where to put it. So my point is why would I invest in a school/program I didn't attend. How do you get those people back ?

For a smallish D1 private school we should be shooting for 40K. Start marketing from Saratoga to Buffalo.

However….east of Utica – the Capital region up to Glens Falls and points in between. I could talk to 500 people today and I’d bet less than 5 have ever been to the Carrier Dome much less give two shitEs about Syracuse football. It’s hard to pull from that radius unless you’re playing exciting football and winning.

The biggest issue IMHO locally is that parking SUCKS and it’s a real issue. I know a ton of people in Syracuse who don’t want to hassle with parking or having to get on a bus so they stay home and watch it on TV. Cone-ing off both sides of the street up in that Wescott area is BULLSHITE.

(I used to love the the train to armory though)

Last year I got tickets to the SU-ND game at the meadowlands through the GE activities club in Niskayuna (father in law). We took the bus from the GE parking lot so they were all Schenectady/Albany region people. Of the 50 people on the bus it was approximately 45 ND fans and 5 SU.

You're right that east of Syracuse no one really cares about SU unless they are really good. Syracuse may be a city in New York but it doesn't mean anything to the average joe outside of 50 miles in any direction.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Now that it appears there's a good chance that the program is trending upward again along with all the discussion on attendance it got the wheels spinning in the cranium. Apologies as the following will be long as I think out loud here.

The keys to success with this issue whether it be the Syracuse football program, the Chiefs or any team is getting fans to identify with the team as theirs. For so long this wasn't happening on the hill.

This is how to start it. It's simple really.

The biggest problem with the Chiefs is that nobody cares about the parent club. When it was Toronto, nobody cared about the Blue Jays in this town, and now that it's Washington, nobody cares about them, either. It's hard to believe that the Chiefs had an opportunity to partner with either the Yankees or Mets when the relationship with Toronto was ending, but they failed to reach out to either club - the Yankees because of hard feelings among the Simone family, but again, your fans don't care because these are not the teams that any remaining baseball fans out there truly care about. Talk about not caring at all about your customers, that's number 1 right there.

As for the football team, I think it's a few things.

(1) The team has to begin winning again at a level of about 8 games a season, and go to a bowl game pretty much every year. That is the expectation of fans here. We did it before for extended periods of time. We have to get back to that level again for fans to return in significant numbers. Obvious, but true.

(2) Improve access to and from the Dome. Jake has told us this is already true, but we need Centro to get as many people to and from the Dome as they do for the State Fair, with lines of buses leaving every 20 minutes or so before and after games. We need the City to make Colvin St. double lanes in each direction, if they want to have us park out by South Campus and take a shuttle bus. You have to be able to get to the game on time. While we're at it, eliminate the police directing traffic - it makes the traffic worse, not better, because they funnel everyone on to the same few streets after the game. There need to be some parking options on the Colvin/Euclid side of the Dome, so people don't have to slog up the hill in bad weather.

(3) Improve seating within the Dome. We would be better off giving up 4,000 seats of capacity in exchange for actual seats with chair backs on them. Expand the concourses, better bathrooms, better concessions should all be part of the overhaul of the Dome, along with a Hall of Fame area for both revenue sports.

(4) Ticket giveaways to local children's sports teams, local elementary schools, etc. We've already talked about doing it for the military, but the greater impact on attendance long-term is to get kids hooked again. Parents do have a tough time with how structured sports and after-school activities have become. When we were kids, life was a lot looser, and not so tightly scheduled. There seemed to be more free time. We can't do much about the way life has changed, but we have to find a way to get kids back into the Dome.

 

[IthacaMatt]

But until then - orange paint. That's not a joke. 25,000 die hards can make a lot of noise - just color in the gaps.

Alternate some blue in there in a random pattern to make it look like people.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Agreed. That's why having a competent AD is so important. I'm confident that Coyle will clean up a lot of the disorganization / largess / general ineptitude of the previous regime, to say nothing of overseeing improved results on the gridiron.

Just think about how lame the University seems to its fans, and how little they seem to care about their own sports product, when they can't spell the name correctly of the player they are honoring at half time.

 

[iEC Forces]

You could look at the website for this weekends game and see what it costs for a sideline ticket. Mom and Dad aren't going to pay $80-140 for what they feel is a good seat. Those are the ones left almost empty and seen on TV.

Long time reader - infrequent poster. I know this topic has been beaten to death but I do want to follow up and say I agree with this 100%. Might be more of an economic thing but myself and a friend are looking to go the LSU game however he is hesitate to pay $80 for a decent ticket - then costs of misc things like parking, beers, food. All to watch them potentially get slapped makes it tough for a couple kids fresh out of college to drive from Saratoga.

 

[BlackKnight76]

$5-10 tickets for any HS player in CNY who can demonstrate they are on their HS team. Bring a regular paying person with you and you get in free.

Can't do it for HS players, NCAA violation.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

Just out of curiosity, how much do they charge to park at the Convention Center garage or the garage next to the AXA plaza on game day? Back in the day we'd park in the MONY garage and hike uphill. I'm thinking of doing something similar when we come up later this fall so we're not far from Armory Square after the game. (Yeah, the Big Six-Oh has come and gone but I can still walk up a hill daily and there's always an umbrella for rainy days).

 

[Toga]

Can't do it for HS players, NCAA violation.

Well that's just stupid.

 

[SWC75]

Well that's just stupid.

What if SU agreed not to recruit those players? (If they are, that player doesn't get one.) They are doing this to build a fan base, not a roster.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

What if SU agreed not to recruit those players? (If they are, that player doesn't get one.) They are doing this to build a fan base, not a roster.

What if SU gave a local HS team free or discounted tickets, and one of the 9th graders on the team became NYS Player of the Year?

That would go over really well.

 

[Ottoble]

Fun Idea from one of my previous posts to continue student engagement early and throughout the game.

Orange Fog Machines behind the student section for when the team takes the field and at the 4th quarter break! A waterfall of Orange will get students in seats early riled up throughout. Maybe put a chord that runs the Train horn in the student section for when the team takes the field and two sets of 4 bursts at the 4th quarter break. Unhook it in between. And turn that Horn Volume UUUP!

To Improve attendance overall longterm:

Recent Grad section: Dedicated section upper deck low cost season tickets for grads of any college in the last 6 years. SU grads get a better price same section. Creates a young local season ticket holder fan base that develops a tradition/friends that go to games together.

Its a single ticket with your name on it like the student tickets so it cant be resold. Id start it around the price students pay and move slowly towards the corner seat price each year away from graduation you get. Market directly to SU student season ticket holders when graduating. Id dedicate the whole corner diagonal from the student section to add noise to that endzone. Maybe parking is included all in the same lot so it generates a sense of community / tailgating. A dedicated shuttle bus that goes to where they all park maybe.

 

[Toga]

Just win baby.

 

[Syracusian]

It is crazy to park for $25.00. Meaning you are crazy if you do.

I park on genesee st and walk. Have never paid to park in the last 20 years easy. Literally 100 yards from where I park there is a lot on game day for $20.00. Those people are crazy. Same distance walk. Why do it?

I agree with this.

I think some people find it easier to pay the money to park their car. They may like the atmosphere of the lot and can potentially tailgate. They also may feel that their car is safer to park in a specific spot rather than on a main street or some random side street. Everyone spends their money differently though and I'm relatively frugal. However, if I can help save someone $20-$25 and maybe have them attend more games than they normally would, then I'm all for it.

What we used to do was park on a side street next to Manley. The side streets are Harriette, Ruth, or Lorraine ave. They always had readily available parking, and we would either walk to Manley and take the shuttle, or just simply walk to the dome. If you cut through the cemetery, it's even faster. One downside to this is that it's odd/evening parking. So, if you go to a 7:00 pm basketball game, and you park your car at say, 5:00 pm, you might get a little concerned about getting a ticket. 3:30 football games are also a difficult one.

We were ESF students, and we had a Standart lot pass. Often times we would park up there early for class and keep our car in Standart for free. They close the lot and make people pay to park ~2 hours before game time. They make you pay even if you're a student and having a parking pass for the lot. I actually found this to be ridiculous when trying to exit the lot. We spent ~40 minutes trying to get out of the Standart lot on a few occasions.

Another option is to just go to ESF. If you're a student (even non-matriculated), you can park on on-campus after 5 pm for free. You need a parking pass for this, but the pass is free. The only exception is that you aren't allowed to park up there during football games (at least this is what I've heard). But, for all basketball games, you're good to go. You can literally park right next to the dome.

There's also a cheap lot, which is actually MLK's school parking lot. They charge $5 I believe, but that's only for bigger games. I actually don't even know if it's a legal operation, because I've seen a very sketchy set up there before charging $5.