howard/carey | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

howard/carey

Gonna need them both. Like JB said earlier, what we need most is Frank’s shooting so he can slide Tyus to the 3 with Carey on the floor.
Frank isn’t healthy, at least twice today he didn’t even attempt to challenge a 3 point shooter. Just stared him down, that’s not how he played last year.

Carey gives us a different dimension, but he’s high risk high reward right now. He makes plays that Frank can’t pushing the ball...but he’s also bound to make freshmen decisions.

But Carey is covering sooooo much ground at the top of the zone. He is an ELITE defender ...I think most are coming around to this part of his game.

People (myself included) are in love with Carey’s potential...but we’re not going to get his polished product this year...and he will not be allowed to shoot this year.

Both need to play well for us to be better.

With all due respect, do you honestly think so? I mean, in my view, I think what we need most from Frank is running the offense to set up our 3 scorers, Battle, OB & Hughes. Yeah, an occasional outside shot by Frank to keep the D honest, but he needs to be the floor general, and that means penetrating, creating, etc., not dribbling and dribbling with no apparent purpose and same with the patty cake passing he likes to do. Just my $.02.
 
Both players bring different assets to the team and not sure I could definitively pick one over the other. Frank is better on defense and can drive as well...Carey sees the floor better and is faster off the break and probably a better passer. I really think that a mix of both is best for the team

Frank being better on defense is a nice JB talking point...but it’s not true with Frank in his current state
 
Gonna need them both. Like JB said earlier, what we need most is Frank’s shooting so he can slide Tyus to the 3 with Carey on the floor.
Frank isn’t healthy, at least twice today he didn’t even attempt to challenge a 3 point shooter. Just stared him down, that’s not how he played last year.

Carey gives us a different dimension, but he’s high risk high reward right now. He makes plays that Frank can’t pushing the ball...but he’s also bound to make freshmen decisions.

But Carey is covering sooooo much ground at the top of the zone. He is an ELITE defender ...I think most are coming around to this part of his game.

People (myself included) are in love with Carey’s potential...but we’re not going to get his polished product this year...and he will not be allowed to shoot this year.

Both need to play well for us to be better.

While I agree with the overall sentiment that both need to play I'm not sure about relying on Frank's shooting. For his entire career at SU he's 36% from the field and 30% from beyond the arc. He's just not a very good shooter. As for his health he should sit during some or all of this stretch between now and the end of the year and try to get back toward 100%.
 
While I agree with the overall sentiment that both need to play I'm not sure about relying on Frank's shooting. For his entire career at SU he's 36% from the field and 30% from beyond the arc. He's just not a very good shooter. As for his health he should sit during some or all of this stretch between now and the end of the year and try to get back toward 100%.
36% is good for us
 
Frank was a more dependable shooter at the end of last year, and I expected him to step it up even more this year.
I don’t think I would “depend” on his shooting, but his ability to hit open jumpers would give us a needed element.

He’s never going to be a dynamic playmaker...
 
36% is good for us

Even as bad as we've shot over the last couple of years, 36% is pretty much bottom of the barrel. And 30% from three is downright hideous.
 
Frank was a more dependable shooter at the end of last year, and I expected him to step it up even more this year.
I don’t think I would “depend” on his shooting, but his ability to hit open jumpers would give us a needed element.

He’s never going to be a dynamic playmaker...

Therein lies the rub - he's not a dynamic playmaker nor shooter. He is what he is. Sorry for the trite statement.
 
That’s affected by his first two years, when he was a bad shooter.

He improved.

He did improve. He went from woeful to very mediocre. 32.7% last year from three is not very good.

When you scour the stats of major D-1 programs you see that very few starting guards shoot that poorly from three and if they do they don't take many attempts from downtown.
 
No I get it...other than shooting and playmaking...how was the rest of the play mrs Lincoln..

I have to admit that when I watch SU play I tend to lock onto Frank. I guess I enjoy torturing myself. Maybe I'm suffering from recency bias but to me very few have divided the fan base like Frank.
 
We need both. This team isn’t that deep. 6 guys for 4 spots. 2 ok centers. Then Buddy who isn’t good at this point. Jalen is in the correct role and JB correctly has left him in when he’s playing well. No issues about his usage at all and he’s not ready to play more.
 
BULL. Once Frank picked up his 4th foul, Carey pushed the pace. What game were you watching? Terrible plodding game by Frank. Terrible. He's not ready. You and Trueblue need to shut down the nonsense. Carey needs time until Frank is better. It's obvious he's not himself.

Sorry. No bull. I just rewatched the second half.
 
Frank to Hughes, Carey to Brissett, Battle all the way twice. They all came in the same time span though.

Yea, I forgot the length of the court 1 man fast breaks with Battle. We had another with Frank but Brissett missed the dunk. After that flurry in the first 4 mins, we had one fast break with Carey and then one after breaking the press when Frank was in and it ended with battle alley oop to chewy. Otherwise we were a half court offense after the 16 min mark. Several Hughes 3’s and a lot of battle iso and dribble drives.
 
Carey needs to play. I’m done with the plodding (even if Frank is healthy) and the team responds well to him being in there. He makes a couple of mistakes but he is doing so much good out there. We’re comparing him to some of the worst offenses, plodding, and the most minimal dribble penetration in SYR history though so gotta factor that in. Can’t just keep walking the ball up and not doing anything with it.
 
BULL. Once Frank picked up his 4th foul, Carey pushed the pace. What game were you watching? Terrible plodding game by Frank. Terrible. He's not ready. You and Trueblue need to shut down the nonsense. Carey needs time until Frank is better. It's obvious he's not himself.

Agreed, Frank’s gonna walk it up regardless. Healthy or not. Carey at least played downhill when Frank fouled out and got things up the court quicker. It helps everything regardless of how many fast breaks.
 
Agreed, Frank’s gonna walk it up regardless. Healthy or not. Carey at least played downhill when Frank fouled out and got things up the court quicker. It helps everything regardless of how many fast breaks.

You might want to try watching the second half. The fast breaks have been detailed here already.
 
You might want to try watching the second half. The fast breaks have been detailed here already.

I watched it. I wasn’t even talking about fast breaks as was articulated in the post. Carey gets it up quicker and is playing downhill. Shulman and Ellis talked about it all game. Playing with faster pace. The team responded better in the 2H today and @OSU. The plodding (healthy or unhealthy Frank) doesn’t do anybody any good unless they have a reasonable enough lead late in the game commencing stall ball.
 
I watched it. I wasn’t even talking about fast breaks as was articulated in the post. Carey gets it up quicker and is playing downhill. Shulman and Ellis talked about it all game. Playing with faster pace. The team responded better in the 2H today and @OSU. The plodding (healthy or unhealthy Frank) doesn’t do anybody any good unless they have a reasonable enough lead late in the game commencing stall ball.

Words.

Replay is a real bitch. We didn’t play faster after the flurry in the first 4 minutes. It was the same offense as it’s been.
 
Frank was a more dependable shooter at the end of last year, and I expected him to step it up even more this year.
I don’t think I would “depend” on his shooting, but his ability to hit open jumpers would give us a needed element.

He’s never going to be a dynamic playmaker...
Personally until frank shows he is healthier he should only be seeing spot minutes. Then when he is back to 100% play the hotter hand.
 
Frank brings the ball up slow and tends to be slower about initiating the offense. Sometimes pounds the rock and doesnt get ball movement/drives going. Looks to swing it east/west too often. I'm not saying hes doing it all the time but Carey brings the ball up quicker and looks to get the offense going faster it seems like. We will need them both to play good if we want to be successful going forward but I do know what sobe is talking about. There is a difference in play with Carey/frank and how they start the offense. Frank likes things slow and that's ok at times but it seems like our guys are responding pretty good to how Carey plays as well. Would be interesting if someone actually has some stats on this rather then everyone thinking their opinion on watching it in real time and replay is the correct one.
 
He did improve. He went from woeful to very mediocre. 32.7% last year from three is not very good.

When you scour the stats of major D-1 programs you see that very few starting guards shoot that poorly from three and if they do they don't take many attempts from downtown.
last season was the first in which he started or really even got consistent minutes. he shot 41% on his two point attempts last year, and, after a terrible start in november/december, he rebounded to shoot .359 from three in conference play

those are not great numbers, but they are serviceable & better than the career numbers you cite and, imo, paint a more accurate picture of frank's progress on the offensive side of the court
 
I mean...Boeheim just went with Carey a lot in big spots. Part of that was foul trouble, but still.

So what makes you think he’ll go with 38 of Howard? I think IF Howard plays 38 in a game, it will be because he’s playing an amazing game - which would be a good thing.

Frank is not himself and not playing well overall, but he did have some big plays today too. Thought the alley-oop charge 5th foul was a bad call in real time. Would like to see the replay.

Frank needs time to get his fitness levels back up... His shot and timing will come back with fitness as well.Actually, it's positive to see Carey splitting time with him... JB normally wouldn't do that, but I think it's helping both players.
 

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