howard/carey

[gmoney44]

He did improve. He went from woeful to very mediocre. 32.7% last year from three is not very good.

When you scour the stats of major D-1 programs you see that very few starting guards shoot that poorly from three and if they do they don't take many attempts from downtown.

Very few PGs have to play 38 minutes every game on a team with one or two subs and very little options to score. That was our team in a nut shell last year.

 

[Jake]

Two minutes into the game JB says to Frank when Oshea is at the line. “Frank, you’re not penetrating. You’re just floating. Go north and south”. Two possessions later he puts Carey into the game.

I think this pretty much sums up fan frustration with him when he’s not playing well. Could be foot.

 

[bpo57]

Words.

Replay is a real bitch. We didn’t play faster after the flurry in the first 4 minutes. It was the same offense as it’s been.

Will there ever be a time when you admit Frank's deficiencies?

 

[bpo57]

last season was the first in which he started or really even got consistent minutes. he shot 41% on his two point attempts last year, and, after a terrible start in november/december, he rebounded to shoot .359 from three in conference play

those are not great numbers, but they are serviceable & better than the career numbers you cite and, imo, paint a more accurate picture of frank's progress on the offensive side of the court

That's a fair point. There was improvement but it's hard to classify those #s as anything other than mediocre.

 

[bpo57]

Very few PGs have to play 38 minutes every game on a team with one or two subs and very little options to score. That was our team in a nut shell last year.

Well that's another discussion altogether. He should not have been playing that many minutes. That said, I'm not sure his shooting percentages would have improved a lot with a few less minutes. I also recall games where the opponent welcomed Frank's shots from downtown. When you're shooting in the low 30s that tends to happen.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Carey needs to play. I’m done with the plodding (even if Frank is healthy) and the team responds well to him being in there. He makes a couple of mistakes but he is doing so much good out there. We’re comparing him to some of the worst offenses, plodding, and the most minimal dribble penetration in SYR history though so gotta factor that in. Can’t just keep walking the ball up and not doing anything with it.

Listen, I also liked Carey's play last night. But if Frankie dribbled the ball off of his own foot while essentially unguarded, you'd be roasting him alive today. We've all got our biases, so let's just own them.

The one thing Jalen did that I absolutely loved was on the block in the corner. Unlike all of our other guards and forwards, he elevated on his way to the man. That's why he got that block. He didn't do what must be taught on the hill. Closeout, then jump for the contest, which very rarely results in a block.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Words.

Replay is a real bitch. We didn’t play faster after the flurry in the first 4 minutes. It was the same offense as it’s been.

I think that's because Ewing reacted and switched up the defense, right?

And then at some point, JB clearly put on the brakes.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Listen, I also liked Carey's play last night. But if Frankie dribbled the ball off of his own foot while essentially unguarded, you'd be roasting him alive today. We've all got our biases, so let's just own them.

The one thing Jalen did that I absolutely loved was on the block in the corner. Unlike all of our other guards and forwards, he elevated on his way to the man. That's why he got that block. He didn't do what must be taught on the hill. Closeout, then jump for the contest, which very rarely results in a block.

I mean get him in there more until Frank is full go. We’re playing 3 on 5 with Frank staying back and beyond the 3pt line.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I mean get him in there more until Frank is full go. We’re playing 3 on 5 with Frank staying back and beyond the 3pt line.

I don't get what's happening with Frank. When he did actually decide to drive he ended up with two relatively easy layups. Why not more of that?

 

[SoBeCuse]

I don't get what's happening with Frank. When he did actually decide to drive he ended up with two relatively easy layups. Why not more of that?

Not sure. Those were strange plays. One for sure seemed like GTown wasn’t sure if they were going to switch or not so Frank drove off the handoff and the help had their backs turned to the ball. Not sure. But, we keep starting all these games so slowly and I think there is a direct correlation.

 

[Trueblue25]

Frank’s the guy

 

[kuethstheman]

I don't get what's happening with Frank. When he did actually decide to drive he ended up with two relatively easy layups. Why not more of that?

Usually there are too many defenders to help out. Too many of our guys standing around in the middle. In both of Frank's drive, there was accidentally room to take it to the basket. Doesn't happen often.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Not sure. Those were strange plays. One for sure seemed like GTown wasn’t sure if they were going to switch or not so Frank drove off the handoff and the help had their backs turned to the ball. Not sure. But, we keep starting all these games so slowly and I think there is a direct correlation.

There’s also a direct correlation that we play better with him and have 2 losses without him.

 

[ORRange]

Sorry. No bull. I just rewatched the second half.

Well I don't understand , do you realize we only scored 22 in the first half compared to 50 in the second. And you don't think the pace was different? Hmmm. It must be a curse for you to always be right. Maybe you just don't want to watch the first half again. Neither do I.

 

[OrangeDW]

We need Frank to get back to 100%, to play his usual defense, to shoot 35% from 3, to look to penetrate and push the tempo more.

We also need Jalen to cut way down on the turnovers while maintaining his aggressiveness that adds a dimension to the team.

Both guys are needed. Both can and will play better IMO.

 

[OrangeDW]

I think that's because Ewing reacted and switched up the defense, right?

And then at some point, JB clearly put on the brakes.

I think it’s a bit disingenuous to not point out the benefit of getting some easy buckets on helping our shooting out. You get some momentum and a couple easy hoops and suddenly the rim seems a little bigger. There’s positive energy, there’s points on the scoreboard, the deficit is gone, suddenly you’re playing with a purpose and feeling good.

Not talking about you Vt, just the discussion in general.

And yeah, at some point Ewing went zone, which worked for a bit.

 

[rrlbees]

Will there ever be a time when you admit Frank's deficiencies?

Are you paying attention? The discussion is not what you think.

 

[rrlbees]

Two minutes into the game JB says to Frank when Oshea is at the line. “Frank, you’re not penetrating. You’re just floating. Go north and south”. Two possessions later he puts Carey into the game.

I think this pretty much sums up fan frustration with him when he’s not playing well. Could be foot.

The penetration is very valid. Two weeks ago jb said he didn’t trust himself (foot) yet. Hopefully yesterday was a small start. But that’s also different than the people saying we didn’t run till Carey came in and kept doing it. Anyone can watch the 2nd half replay. We came out running (due to steals, turnovers and a couple long rebounds) both with frank and Jalen. After the 16 minute timeout we got 1 more break and a break off the press late. We went to the same offense we had been using. It wasn’t fast break basketball. Battle went iso and Hughes got hot from 3. Plus a little chewy finally.

 

[OrangeDW]

Listen, I also liked Carey's play last night. But if Frankie dribbled the ball off of his own foot while essentially unguarded, you'd be roasting him alive today. We've all got our biases, so let's just own them.

The one thing Jalen did that I absolutely loved was on the block in the corner. Unlike all of our other guards and forwards, he elevated on his way to the man. That's why he got that block. He didn't do what must be taught on the hill. Closeout, then jump for the contest, which very rarely results in a block.

You can sell out like that when you know the guy is shooting it.

If our guards closed out like that all the time, a simple head fake would lead to wide open jumpers and easy penetration though.

His athleticism on that block and on some of those other turnovers he baited them into by being so active, was really impressive.

If he becomes a good shooter and tightens up his handle and decisions with the ball, he could be a special player here. He’s got the athleticism that only a few of our guards have had. Like Waiters and Flynn are the ones that come to mind.

 

[rrlbees]

Well I don't understand , do you realize we only scored 22 in the first half compared to 50 in the second. And you don't think the pace was different? Hmmm. It must be a curse for you to always be right. Maybe you just don't want to watch the first half again. Neither do I.

Yea we scored 22 in the 1st half. They were all bad. Point? I’m talking about the 2nd half when people think we ran and pushed tempo the whole half. We’ve gone over those possessions. Watch the link I posted. Start with the second half and watch after the 16 minute mark.

 

[SU Dreaming]

Gonna need them both. Like JB said earlier, what we need most is Frank’s shooting so he can slide Tyus to the 3 with Carey on the floor.
Frank isn’t healthy, at least twice today he didn’t even attempt to challenge a 3 point shooter. Just stared him down, that’s not how he played last year.

Carey gives us a different dimension, but he’s high risk high reward right now. He makes plays that Frank can’t pushing the ball...but he’s also bound to make freshmen decisions.

But Carey is covering sooooo much ground at the top of the zone. He is an ELITE defender ...I think most are coming around to this part of his game.

People (myself included) are in love with Carey’s potential...but we’re not going to get his polished product this year...and he will not be allowed to shoot this year.

Both need to play well for us to be better.

Carey to me is the most exciting player on the team and how oozes of potential, he bursts out from the def side of the ball to 1/2 court in transition in a second, Frank is not healthy and I’m not sure he will be until Feb/March, note no one has said what the injury was and I was told much more serious than they expected, anyway Carey’s defense is off the charts, once he gets comfortable on the offensive side forget about it, he’s a mix of several former nyc greats, he’s not shooting well for several reasons, he gets to the hoop with ease but has not converted well, this will change soon, ncaa ACC Big 10 Big East is different than NJ hs ball.

I only wish Elijah would take it to the hoop more and they have to get the centers the ball/Jb keeps playing Marek at center it answers your questions why we can recruit big men

As much as I like Hughes, we also need Marek on the floor at forward, he does the little things , plays great D etc. Hughes great stroke, but he has to get to the line more and is not a great fit for back of zone

Feed Pascal a few dunks early in the game and he will play defense and board the way we know he can like the last bunch gms last year, they have to get the centers going early with points, they change everything for us and JB has to be patient and commit to them, not pull them out like 2 year olds after each mistake, it’s just absurd

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Well I don't understand , do you realize we only scored 22 in the first half compared to 50 in the second. And you don't think the pace was different? Hmmm. It must be a curse for you to always be right. Maybe you just don't want to watch the first half again. Neither do I.

Well, we also shot like a single digit percentage in the first half so that may account for more than the pace.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I think it’s a bit disingenuous to not point out the benefit of getting some easy buckets on helping our shooting out. You get some momentum and a couple easy hoops and suddenly the rim seems a little bigger. There’s positive energy, there’s points on the scoreboard, the deficit is gone, suddenly you’re playing with a purpose and feeling good.

Not talking about you Vt, just the discussion in general.

And yeah, at some point Ewing went zone, which worked for a bit.

Totally agree.

 

[SU Dreaming]

We need easy buckets and that’s what Carey delivers especially with Frank unable to move his feet, he has 1 speed right now, can’t move his hips like he is stuck to floor, it’s not about in shape, he can’t move

 

[bpo57]

Carey to me is the most exciting player on the team and how oozes of potential, he bursts out from the def side of the ball to 1/2 court in transition in a second, Frank is not healthy and I’m not sure he will be until Feb/March, note no one has said what the injury was and I was told much more serious than they expected, anyway Carey’s defense is off the charts, once he gets comfortable on the offensive side forget about it, he’s a mix of several former nyc greats, he’s not shooting well for several reasons, he gets to the hoop with ease but has not converted well, this will change soon, ncaa ACC Big 10 Big East is different than NJ hs ball.

I only wish Elijah would take it to the hoop more and they have to get the centers the ball/Jb keeps playing Marek at center it answers your questions why we can recruit big men

As much as I like Hughes, we also need Marek on the floor at forward, he does the little things , plays great D etc. Hughes great stroke, but he has to get to the line more and is not a great fit for back of zone

Feed Pascal a few dunks early in the game and he will play defense and board the way we know he can like the last bunch gms last year, they have to get the centers going early with points, they change everything for us and JB has to be patient and commit to them, not pull them out like 2 year olds after each mistake, it’s just absurd

Getting the ball inside more often seems like a logical plan given that we're currently ranked 311th in three point FG percentage.