howard/carey

[Cusefan0307]

Def fair. He can't shoot from three either and I'd say he's very marginally better than Frank. They both suck from three. That doesn't make Frank's #s look any better.

Actually Battle shot 30% in conference last year which is worse than anything Cooney ever did in conference.

 

[bpo57]

Battle was not a better outside shooter than Frank last year. That’s not even debatable.

their #s were almost identical last year and for their careers Battle is about 3-4 points higher. Oh I forgot I'm only supposed to cherry pick and use Mondays and Saturdays when calculating stats.

 

[Cusefan0307]

their #s were almost identical last year and for their careers Battle is about 3-4 points higher. Oh I forgot I'm only supposed to cherry pick and use Mondays and Saturdays when calculating stats.

You’re missing the point, but i guess I should expect that from you based on every debate we’ve ever had. It’s better to just disagree.

 

[bpo57]

I’m not sure where you’re getting your stats from. Making up facts like the rest of society?

He’s shot 33 percent from his entire career in conference which includes his freshman and sophomore year where people agree he wasn’t good.

He's a 29% career three point FG shooter. Look it up. FACT.

Last year when you exclude the cupcake (your words) portion of the schedule and just use ACC reg season, ACCT and NCAAT then FH shot exactly 33.3% from three . Look it up. FACT.

 

[bpo57]

You’re missing the point, but i guess I should expect that from you based on every debate we’ve ever had. It’s better to just disagree.

Probably is better to disagree because the #s any way you slice them are not on your side. This seems pretty obvious to me.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Probably is better to disagree because the #s any way you slice them are not on your side. This seems pretty obvious to me.

Here’s a thought. Call the coaches show and ask JB why he doesn’t play Carey more.

Maybe you can tell him Frank sucks and see what his reaction is.

 

[bpo57]

Here’s a thought. Call the coaches show and ask JB why he doesn’t play Carey more.

Maybe you can tell him Frank sucks and see what his reaction is.

FH sucks from three. JB would have a tough time arguing otherwise. Just like you did.

 

[Cusefan0307]

FH sucks from three. JB would have a tough time arguing otherwise. Just like you did.

Call him up and ask him then. I’ll listen. At least other posters have the cajones to call JM when they disagree with him.

 

[bpo57]

Call him up and ask him then. I’ll listen. At least other posters have the cajones to call JM when they disagree with him.

I don't need to call anybody. #s don't lie even when you try to massage them in your favor.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I don't need to call anybody. #s don't lie even when you try to massage them in your favor.

Well according to your posts above you think Carey has more upside so you disagree with JB that he doesn’t play more.

 

[bpo57]

Well according to your posts above you think Carey has more upside so you disagree with JB that he doesn’t play more.

Yeah our debate was about three point shooting. I do think Carey has more upside than FH this year. You seem to think that is an outlandish notion. I don't. JB is in a tough spot.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Yeah our debate was about three point shooting. I do think Carey has more upside than FH this year. You seem to think that is an outlandish notion. I don't. JB is in a tough spot.

Well if we followed your logic Demetris Nichols and James Southerland weren’t good shooters until they suddenly were their Senior year so...

 

[shandeezy7]

I'm so confused about what is being debated here. It's undeniable that Frank is one of our better three point shooting options. It's also undeniable that he is not a very good three point shooter. He did step it up in conference play last year, shooting a pretty mediocre 36% from three; however, this year he has been abysmal so far. Lots of season left, so we'll see if he can repeat last year's effort and at least be respectable.

 

[br801]

Progression. lol

Even if I grant that Howard got off to a slow start in the 2017/2018 season during the OOC portion of the schedule then let's just include the ACC regular season, ACCT and the NCAAT. When you include just these three from last year then FH shot a blazing 33.3% from beyond the arc. Yeah I guess that's progression from his career 3FG% of 29%. He went from woeful to not even mediocre.

When I read folks talking about FH's three point shooting capabilities here I want to throw up in my mouth. Do you guys watch any college hoops? A guard from a major D-1 school with FH's 3FG% is firmly entrenched in the bottom quartile. This is not even debatable.

Howard shot 36% from deep (on high volume) in ACC play last season, averaging over 15 points per game. That proves he can shoot, at least when healthy.

 

[Jake]

I think everyone is getting too attached to 3pt shooting pct. when defining a persons ability to shoot.

Frank has never been a strong 3pt shooter, probably never will be, but the staff was certainly expecting him to shoot a higher pct from 3 this year based on his work over the summer.

However, what I believe they miss more is his mid range game. He was a very solid option down the stretch last year in that 10-15 foot range.

He hit occasional 3s mostly uncontested shots.

He has had almost no success in that mid range game this year, and only the past couple of games has he hit meaningful 3s.

3pt shooting pcts don’t always tell the story. It’s a nice stat for fans to throw around, but college staffs chart shooting ability in a much more meaningful way.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Progression. lol

Even if I grant that Howard got off to a slow start in the 2017/2018 season during the OOC portion of the schedule then let's just include the ACC regular season, ACCT and the NCAAT. When you include just these three from last year then FH shot a blazing 33.3% from beyond the arc. Yeah I guess that's progression from his career 3FG% of 29%. He went from woeful to not even mediocre.

When I read folks talking about FH's three point shooting capabilities here I want to throw up in my mouth. Do you guys watch any college hoops? A guard from a major D-1 school with FH's 3FG% is firmly entrenched in the bottom quartile. This is not even debatable.

Glad to know that you are as obstinate here as you used to be when you were man enough to play on the OT board.

You know Frankie was actually injured last season while playing more minutes than all but about 2 other players in D1. While improving from the previous year. You hate Frank. That's fine. Just own it.

 

[rrlbees]

I think everyone is getting too attached to 3pt shooting pct. when defining a persons ability to shoot.

Frank has never been a strong 3pt shooter, probably never will be, but the staff was certainly expecting him to shoot a higher pct from 3 this year based on his work over the summer.

However, what I believe they miss more is his mid range game. He was a very solid option down the stretch last year in that 10-15 foot range.

He hit occasional 3s mostly uncontested shots.

He has had almost no success in that mid range game this year, and only the past couple of games has he hit meaningful 3s.

3pt shooting pcts don’t always tell the story. It’s a nice stat for fans to throw around, but college staffs chart shooting ability in a much more meaningful way.

We know what JB said about Frank this summer, we saw what you posted about his shooting, and we saw that video of him making 97 of 120 3’s (unguarded). Missing 2 1/2 months at least, really wiped out all his hard work and set him back and is still not 100% physically.

 

[bpo57]

Well if we followed your logic Demetris Nichols and James Southerland weren’t good shooters until they suddenly were their Senior year so...

Oh I get it. Frank's gonna suddenly turn unto Pistol Pete his senior year. Okee-dokee.

 

[bpo57]

I'm so confused about what is being debated here. It's undeniable that Frank is one of our better three point shooting options. It's also undeniable that he is not a very good three point shooter. He did step it up in conference play last year, shooting a pretty mediocre 36% from three; however, this year he has been abysmal so far. Lots of season left, so we'll see if he can repeat last year's effort and at least be respectable.

I can't argue with anything you say here other than that I would classify Frank as somewhere around 3rd or 4th in terms of a three point scoring option. Keeping in mind, as you stated, that the peer group is wildly mediocre.

 

[bpo57]

Howard shot 36% from deep (on high volume) in ACC play last season, averaging over 15 points per game. That proves he can shoot, at least when healthy.

And he shot 33.3% when you include the ACCT and NCAAT. Sorry but those #s are kinda hideous for a major D-1 guard. One of the major reasons why SU finished ranked in the 300s in terms of 3pFG shooting as a team.

 

[bpo57]

I think everyone is getting too attached to 3pt shooting pct. when defining a persons ability to shoot.

Frank has never been a strong 3pt shooter, probably never will be, but the staff was certainly expecting him to shoot a higher pct from 3 this year based on his work over the summer.

However, what I believe they miss more is his mid range game. He was a very solid option down the stretch last year in that 10-15 foot range.

He hit occasional 3s mostly uncontested shots.

He has had almost no success in that mid range game this year, and only the past couple of games has he hit meaningful 3s.

3pt shooting pcts don’t always tell the story. It’s a nice stat for fans to throw around, but college staffs chart shooting ability in a much more meaningful way.

The midrange game is kind of a lost art all the way around in this era. Most of the focus is on the three but in this day and age you're up against it if you can't make threes. Last year's NCAAT performance made everybody forget how poorly this team played prior to March. And their three point shooting was at the top of the list as to why they played so poorly.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

And he shot 33.3% when you include the ACCT and NCAAT. Sorry but those #s are kinda hideous for a major D-1 guard. One of the major reasons why SU finished ranked in the 300s in terms of 3pFG shooting as a team.

with an abdominal injury.

 

[bpo57]

Glad to know that you are as obstinate here as you used to be when you were man enough to play on the OT board.

You know Frankie was actually injured last season while playing more minutes than all but about 2 other players in D1. While improving from the previous year. You hate Frank. That's fine. Just own it.

I don't hate Frank Howard. I just don't think as highly of him as you and some others here do. God forbid I have a dissenting opinion. But I do admire the creative excuses you guys come up with to explain his stats and performance.

As for your comment about being "man enough to play on the OT board" sorry pal but I'm not interested in wading in that cesspool. Have it at though if that's what floats your boat.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I don't hate Frank Howard. I just don't think as highly of him as you and some others here do. God forbid I have a dissenting opinion. But I do admire the creative excuses you guys come up with to explain his stats and performance.

As for your comment about being "man enough to play on the OT board" sorry pal but I'm not interested in wading in that cesspool. Have it at though if that's what floats your boat.

So, you're not. That's cool. Most of the pro-Trump crowd, like yourself, have run for the hills.

If you don't hate frank then I'm guessing there must be at least one post somewhere out there of yours with praise of Frank with absolutely no qualifiers in it. But that's probably a terrible guess.

I rake Chukwu through the coals with regularity. But even I've found a couple moments this year to praise the positives.

 

[bpo57]

We know what JB said about Frank this summer, we saw what you posted about his shooting, and we saw that video of him making 97 of 120 3’s (unguarded). Missing 2 1/2 months at least, really wiped out all his hard work and set him back and is still not 100% physically.

I can buy that and I'm sure it's been a major impediment in his performance this season. No doubt. But as Jake said above, Frank has never been a good three point shooter. Maybe this would have been the year where he finished in the high 30s or broke 40 but to date the statistical evidence would argue against that.