Hughes vs Griffin

[syrBossHogg]

I looked at comparing Elijah's stats his first year playing here vs Alan's stats this year since they were similar ages these seasons

As someone mentioned it's not a comparable sample size yet but Alan has been doing a nice job so far. It's worth noting Hughes put up those numbers against a stronger overall schedule though. If Alan can improve his defensive play and develop his handle better, he can be a very good player for us.

 

[djcon57]

Give Hughes the 2021 Quincy and Kadary at point and his FG numbers would be much better. He had to play iso ball a ton last year

 

[NineOneSeven]

Are Hughes' numbers across both seasons?

 

[Scott11]

This was a very interesting tweet. i do think Hughes is a better defender and a considerably smarter player. I don’t recall Hughes making bad mistakes and taking poor shots like AG does.

But the tweet does make me wonder if we are underrating what AG is accomplishing this year.

 

[SBU72]

As someone pointed out and I've said before Grif takes takes time off, his defense is no where near Hughes. Despite the stats, I often am surprised that Grifs shot go in while was often surprised Hughes didn't. Hughes carried the team. When a 3 was needed, or a drive to the rim, he was the man. Grif not so much. Also think about this, if/when Sidibe comes back and starts, who sits? Never ever would wonder that about Hughes.

 

[Trueblue25]

Hughes, Gbinije and Rak.

Wild for me to say but imo we are at Uconn and Georgetown levels as a program without these three following the Ennis year. Yes, I know final four. Suppose Tyus can be thrown in too.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Biggest separation in my mind is in their ability to focus. Elijah was always dialed into the game, always going full tilt. I can’t remember one game where Hughes wasn’t ready to play in terms of effort. And i can’t recall one game where JB had to sit him down to get his attention.
AG has had games where he seems to not be focused, lackadaisical, a little spacey. However, should he get that part of his game on a consistent track, he’s arguably a better physical talent than EH.

Man, this doesn’t jibe with my memory of Hughes detractors here last year at all. Eli was often criticized for disappearing in the second half. I always argued that the defense he faced had much more to do with that then his focus.

The other thing we need to keep in mind on defense is Eli didn’t need to help as often underneath with Sid there. Finally, Eli got to practice the zone for an entire year before he hit the floor. Griffin is doing fine. Eliminate the dumb shots and I’m fine with everything else

 

[dasher]

maybe, I don't know. I do know that it's a valid argument to say AG is every bit as efficient offensively, if not moreso (better shooting #s) - and just as valid to extend that to say AG is all around more productive when rebounds/steals/blocks are factored in.

Interesting. But you have watched both guys play. Which one do you think was better for Syracuse? I agree with jake. Eli was a better player for us. Sometimes, Griff just isn't with it. He can do a lot on the court. No question.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I’m surprised the turnover difference is only .5.

 

[MikeSU02]

Hughes’ issue isn’t production, it’s auditioning.

He goes rogue to get his own numbers. At the beginning of the year it drove me nuts. Now, since Buddy’s allowed to shoot 100 times a game, I understand it.

 

[sutomcat]

Alan and Elijah are very different players. Alan is a far better rebounder and shooter. Elijah is a far better penetrator and passer.

The biggest difference between them right now is that Elijah made a lot of big plays in crunch time situations. He was at his best when we needed him most. Alan has shown some signs but is nowhere near as money as EH was in the clutch.

It will be interesting to see what kind of numbers Alan puts up if he returns for next season, and how his game evolves. The guy has a lot of room to grow.

 

[Alsacs]

Hughes’ issue isn’t production, it’s auditioning.

He goes rogue to get his own numbers. At the beginning of the year it drove me nuts. Now, since Buddy’s allowed to shoot 100 times a game, I understand it.

AG will have several possessions where he will get the ball at the 3 point line and won’t pass the ball. He will probe for a second and then jack a shot.

Hughes never did that.

Those shots have won us some games Buffalo he hit a big 3 late, and he made a late 3 in the Dome against Pitt in the same situation but his bad shots cost us several possessions as well.

Griffin’s transition defense doesn’t get talked about enough.
He has had several trailing blocks this year.

 

[Ghost]

Alan and Elijah are very different players. Alan is a far better rebounder and shooter. Elijah is a far better penetrator and passer.

The biggest difference between them right now is that Elijah made a lot of big plays in crunch time situations. He was at his best when we needed him most. Alan has shown some signs but is nowhere near as money as EH was in the clutch.

It will be interesting to see what kind of numbers Alan puts up if he returns for next season, and how his game evolves. The guy has a lot of room to grow.

Yeah, this is a good take.

Also, Hughes, for me at least, seemed more like a Moten type in the sense that the effort he put forth looked sort of effortless. AG ain't that, he looks like he's always going 150 MPH when he's giving it a go.

Like 0307 I'm sort of shocked the turnover numbers are quite so close.

 

[Ghost]

AG will have several possessions where he will get the ball at the 3 point line and won’t pass the ball. He will probe for a second and then jack a shot.

Hughes never did that.

Those shots have won us some games Buffalo he hit a big 3 late, and he made a late 3 in the Dome against Pitt in the same situation but his bad shots cost us several possessions as well.

Griffin’s transition defense doesn’t get talked about enough.
He has had several trailing blocks this year.

Concur. He, Kadary, and Bras have all had some great moments in that regard.

 

[NateW]

Griffin is a more pure shooter than Hughes it seems to me. When you compare the two on poor shot selection I recall a sizable amount of 25ft + air balls from Hughes. Griffin doesn’t have those. He at least gets it on the rim.

Griffin has been doing a much better job at skipping the early deep three and probing the defense with some penetration. Moving the ball, making the defense work. Sunday night he had a huge assist to BB, on one of his late threes, that came off of simple penetration and an excellent cross court pass.

Defensively his engagement has been up the last handful of games. He seems to better understand the positioning and the timing of his rotations. I like where he is trending.

 

[pearl31]

Interesting. But you have watched both guys play. Which one do you think was better for Syracuse? I agree with jake. Eli was a better player for us. Sometimes, Griff just isn't with it. He can do a lot on the court. No question.

"eye test"? uh yeah ok - guess it depends on what you're looking for. as others, and you, have noted, AG certainly has his lapses and w_t_f moments that Hughes didn't really have -
one could also argue AG's numbers might be even more impressive if he was scoring option #1 like Hughes was.
I dunno, I'm a big fan of them both, and the #s comparison really surprised me

 

[dasher]

"eye test"? uh yeah ok - guess it depends on what you're looking for. as others, and you, have noted, AG certainly has his lapses and w_t_f moments that Hughes didn't really have -
one could also argue AG's numbers might be even more impressive if he was scoring option #1 like Hughes was.
I dunno, I'm a big fan of them both, and the #s comparison really surprised me

Surprised me too. griff is sure athletic. But he clearly has to rid the W T moments from his game. The ball strip against State was at another level of W T .

 

[721Comstock]

It's wild that he's been more efficient offensively, but has a lot of inefficient fat to trim from his game.

Hey! That’s not a nice way to refer to Joey Bagadonuts!

 

[jdubs30]

I agree with everyone here about the eye test not being close.

Also remember Eli sat out for a year, then played as the 3rd option behind Tyus/OB, then got his time. He had more time on campus to learn the zone, work with the coaches, etc. Alan was at Illinois 8 months ago and is now playing 35mpg at a place he’s been since the summer

 

[stuckinbig11]

I say "interesting" mostly because there's still a sizeable contingent around here who, uh, don't think much of Alan's game

Sadly, there is a sizeable contingent of supposed basketball geniuses that doesn't think much of anyone's game.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

AG will have several possessions where he will get the ball at the 3 point line and won’t pass the ball. He will probe for a second and then jack a shot.

Hughes never did that.

Those shots have won us some games Buffalo he hit a big 3 late, and he made a late 3 in the Dome against Pitt in the same situation but his bad shots cost us several possessions as well.

Griffin’s transition defense doesn’t get talked about enough.
He has had several trailing blocks this year.

Never? That's highly questionable as well. Eli took a ton of shots, early in the clock, without moving the ball around. He made many of those so we tended to overlook that error in judgment, but he absolutely did take those shots. And from much deeper than Griffin.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

It was at the Paul Harris level.

Surprised me too. griff is sure athletic. But he clearly has to rid the W T moments from his game. The ball strip against State was at another level of W T

 

[pearl31]

Never? That's highly questionable as well. Eli took a ton of shots, early in the clock, without moving the ball around. He made many of those so we tended to overlook that error in judgment, but he absolutely did take those shots. And from much deeper than Griffin.

yep, people get real selective in their memories of players (both good and bad, and not just Hughes) -
again, tho, I love Hughes but think many continue to undervalue Griffin

 

[721Comstock]

yep, people get real selective in their memories of players (both good and bad, and not just Hughes) -
again, tho, I love Hughes but think many continue to undervalue Griffin

Griffin compares VERY FAVORABLY to Year 1 of Eli, when he was mostly a spot-up shooter, and only our 2nd or 3rd option on O.

2nd year Eli (3rd at Cuse after RS year) was a much better overall, all-around player, as our often primary ball handler and #1 option on O.

It’s somewhat unfair to compare a guy in his 1st year here with a guy in his 3rd.

 

[Newhouser]

Never? That's highly questionable as well. Eli took a ton of shots, early in the clock, without moving the ball around. He made many of those so we tended to overlook that error in judgment, but he absolutely did take those shots. And from much deeper than Griffin.

I agree - I would rather have Eli all day on my team - but he did take some bad shots (too deep 3's too early in the shot clock). I think Eli was carrying a much heavier burden against a much better league.