HW looked like deer in the headlights

[Jake]

Hughes will be Carey's backup. Hughes will be able to come in for 4 different starters because of the flexibility of Carey and Bazley along with Hughes.

And Buddy after that.

 

[SUFan44]

He's simply not good enough. Probably a nice kid and all. And I'm sure JB's treatment has something to do with it, but he's not an ACC-level player and never was. Sorry - truth hurts sometimes.

 

[reedny]

Hughes will be Carey's backup. Hughes will be able to come in for 4 different starters because of the flexibility of Carey and Bazley along with Hughes.

My guess is that Frank and Hughes will start in the back court (assuming TB’s gone). Hughes is supposedly (per Iommi) very good and will slip into TB’s spot. Carey will back up Frank and Buddy will back up Hughes. We’ll have a 4 guard rotation with HW being the odd man out. Hughes could play the 3 in a pinch, but with Bazely, Brissett, Moyer and Dolezaj available for the front line, I don’t think we’ll see it much.

 

[two3zone]

Hughes will be Carey's backup. Hughes will be able to come in for 4 different starters because of the flexibility of Carey and Bazley along with Hughes.

If Battle comes back then Washingtons possibly the 6th guard off the bench.

 

[SUFan44]

If Battle comes back then Washingtons possibly the 6th guard off the bench.

Washington will be sitting out the 2018-19 season if Battle comes back.

 

[rrlbees]

My guess is that Frank and Hughes will start in the back court (assuming TB’s gone). Hughes is supposedly (per Iommi) very good and will slip into TB’s spot. Carey will back up both and we’ll have a 3 guard rotation with HW being the odd man out. Hughes could play the 3 in a pinch, but with Bazely, Brissett, Moyer and Dolezaj available for the front line, I don’t think we’ll see it much.

That could be, but I don't think Carey comes here if he isn't a starter. Hughes can come in for Frank and Carey slide to the 1. Hughes can come in for Carey at the 2. He can come in for the 3 because he has the size. He could come in for the 4 where the 3 Bazley can go to the 4.

 

[reedny]

That could be, but I don't think Carey comes here if he isn't a starter. Hughes can come in for Frank and Carey slide to the 1. Hughes can come in for Carey at the 2. He can come in for the 3 because he has the size. He could come in for the 4 where the 3 Bazley can go to the 4.

I corrected it... with buddy it’ll be 4 guards. As far as starting, I don’t think it’ll be a crisis. JC’s going to play and play a lot, probably more as the season wears on. Frank’s got size, he’s playing well, he can score and defend and he’ll be a senior. I don’t see him being demoted as a starter unless Carey’s the next Pearl. Carey will get plenty of court time and then get the keys to the program in ‘19.

 

[cuseguy]

And the real question is, even IF he’s in better position to close out, will it matter? He’s not playing because JB sees him as a defensive liability. He’s not uber-athletic, isn’t crafty or quick enough to get steels and is too small to bother ACC shooters (Gillon). Offense is also underwhelming. I do like his poise. He’s a decent floor general for a freshman and on occasion he can find people. But his lack of athleticism, inability to score from outside and vulnerability on D are not going to earn him much time this year unless FH’s in foul trouble.

He’s only played tonight because Battle got into foul trouble. HW is afraid to assert himself. He doesn’t take it to the basket or get into the lane much. I was hoping he could make some 3s, but I have to yet to see that. Just not sure what his future is st SU.

 

[orangecuse]

Yeah he got pulled immediately after getting sucked down into the paint and giving up a wide open three on a kick out. Battle was at the scorers table before the ball made it through the net.

One of my pet peeves of JB and his coaching tactics. Washington makes that aforementioned mistake as you allude to and instant hook, meanwhile, Oshea fails to get out to the corner on 3 consecutive 3's late that arguably changed the outcome of the game and not even a yelling from JB. Total bs imo. OB, as good as he has been (at times) for us, is still a FRESHMAN, just like Washington, and makes plenty of mistakes himself. I'm not a fan of JB's preferential treatment he gives to his pets.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

He's simply not good enough. Probably a nice kid and all. And I'm sure JB's treatment has something to do with it, but he's not an ACC-level player and never was. Sorry - truth hurts sometimes.

Come 2019-2020 there is a good chance he is starting if he sticks it out and develops his game.

 

[Bayside44]

One of my pet peeves of JB and his coaching tactics. Washington makes that aforementioned mistake as you allude to and instant hook, meanwhile, Oshea fails to get out to the corner on 3 consecutive 3's late that arguably changed the outcome of the game and not even a yelling from JB. Total bs imo. OB, as good as he has been (at times) for us, is still a FRESHMAN, just like Washington, and makes plenty of mistakes himself. I'm not a fan of JB's preferential treatment he gives to his pets.

In fairness he needs OB to win.

 

[orangecuse]

In fairness he needs OB to win.

I get it, but nothing "fair" about it. It is what it is and has been JB's way for years, not just with HW. No one can argue with JB's success, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have his shortcomings, and one for sure is his development and use of his bench over the years. Hence, why JB's prefers to only play 6-7 guys (legitimate, meaningful minutes) as it is and has always been his comfort zone.

 

[reedny]

One of my pet peeves of JB and his coaching tactics. Washington makes that aforementioned mistake as you allude to and instant hook, meanwhile, Oshea fails to get out to the corner on 3 consecutive 3's late that arguably changed the outcome of the game and not even a yelling from JB. Total bs imo. OB, as good as he has been (at times) for us, is still a FRESHMAN, just like Washington, and makes plenty of mistakes himself. I'm not a fan of JB's preferential treatment he gives to his pets.

But what you’re missing is that OB is a talented starter. We need his points, his defense and his rebounding (leading the team). So you have to have him out there and when we’re behind and he’s open he’s going to have to shoot. You accept the risk that, at 26%, he’ll miss because of all the other things he brings to the table. HW is not a guy we need to score, and he hasn’t earned much of a leash. Often, he’s a defensive liability .. out of position, small and unathletic. He’s out there to run the offense and distribute the ball for a few minutes without turning it over, not to jack threes ... 1 for 10 going into this game.

 

[kcsu]

I can't blame HW for playing tight when he was lambasted for taking a wide open shot against St. Bona. JB is a coaching legend, but I think not allowing players to get comfortable is his biggest flaw.

Agreed. JB screwed up frank last year.

 

[Bayside44]

I get it, but nothing "fair" about it. It is what it is and has been JB's way for years, not just with HW. No one can argue with JB's success, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have his shortcomings, and one for sure is his development and use of his bench over the years. Hence, why JB's prefers to only play 6-7 guys (legitimate, meaningful minutes) as it is and has always been his comfort zone.

Fairness is my CYO team. Cannot imagine that idea ever crosses JB's mind.

We've had a lot of goofy roster issues since our second ACC season.

 

[SUFan44]

Come 2019-2020 there is a good chance he is starting if he sticks it out and develops his game.

Are you being serious?

He will be recruited over three times by 2019-2020. Or else we are heading to the NIT the next two years.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

He's simply not good enough. Probably a nice kid and all. And I'm sure JB's treatment has something to do with it, but he's not an ACC-level player and never was. Sorry - truth hurts sometimes.

I'm curious how everyone gets to this conclusion. Because he's missed 9 threes? Oshae has that many in the last couple of games. Because he's got shackles on him? Because of his defense? He's better right now than John Gillon all of last season on defense. Maybe you all are right, but it sure feels premature.

 

[orangecuse]

But what you’re missing is that OB is a talented starter. We need his points, his defense and his rebounding (leading the team). So you have to have him out there and when we’re behind and he’s open he’s going to have to shoot. You accept the risk that, at 26%, he’ll miss because of all the other things he brings to the table. HW is not a guy we need to score, and he hasn’t earned much of a leash. As I said above, he’s a defensive liability .. out of position, small and unathletic. He’s out there to run the offense and distribute the ball for a few minutes without turning it over, not to jack threes ... 1 for 10 going into this game.

I understand what you are saying, I just don't care for the tactic. The fact is is that SU is a power 5 school, many who claim is an Elite school at that. If he can't play freely than he can't play at all as not many people can go out and perform, be productive, etc. if they are more concerned of making mistakes. This kid has been playing for years, and if he is unable to play without constant having to look over his shoulder, I'm not sure how he, or anyone for that matter, can be remotely successful under such a microscope.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

He’s only played tonight because Battle got into foul trouble. HW is afraid to assert himself. He doesn’t take it to the basket or get into the lane much. I was hoping he could make some 3s, but I have to yet to see that. Just not sure what his future is st SU.

This is just dumb. He's not afraid to assert himself. He's clearly been told that the consequence of him asserting himself is sitting far down the bench. He might not be good enough. But according to guys like you, his only chance to play more is to disobey his coach and hope like hell that a made shot will somehow make JB forget he told Washington to never shoot.

 

[orangecuse]

Fairness is my CYO team. Cannot imagine that idea ever crosses JB's mind.

We've had a lot of goofy roster issues since our second ACC season.

Fairness was the word you used..."in all fairness." I'm not advocating for JB to be "fair" as you mention, this is not CYO basketball, etc. But, his tactics, in my view, is why over the years he seldom ever has a deep bench as bench development isn't a strength of his, hence, again, his comfort zone of generally playing only 6-7 guys (legitimate/meaningful) minutes throughout his tenure.

 

[Bayside44]

Fairness was the word you used..."in all fairness." I'm not advocating for JB to be "fair" as you mention, this is not CYO basketball, etc. But, his tactics, in my view, is why over the years he seldom ever has a deep bench as bench development isn't a strength of his, hence, again, his comfort zone of generally playing only 6-7 guys (legitimate/meaningful) minutes throughout his tenure.

Fairness to JB, not JB to his players, probably not my best turn of words.

He went 8ish up until 2014, then some recruiting misses and schollie issues with the NCAA really really hampered us.

If Geno and Thompson where here he'd be playing 8-9 guys this year.

 

[cuseguy]

This is just dumb. He's not afraid to assert himself. He's clearly been told that the consequence of him asserting himself is sitting far down the bench. He might not be good enough. But according to guys like you, his only chance to play more is to disobey his coach and hope like hell that a made shot will somehow make JB forget he told Washington to never shoot.

I’ve seen him play numerous times before coming to SU. Nothing has changed. His game is passing and dribbling around the perimeter. Ocassionally makes a nice pass inside, but he doesn’t like to challenge defenders by taking it to the basket. I know he has a decent stroke, but we have yet to see it, partly because JB has told him not shoot much. He has a decent handle and nice poise to his game.

 

[SBU72]

I seem to remember many here saying that Frank Howard was not good enough to play for SU, he was an after thought and would never play much.

 

[SUFan44]

I seem to remember many here saying that Frank Howard was not good enough to play for SU, he was an after thought and would never play much.

I don’t think this is accurate.

 

[cuseguy]

I seem to remember many here saying that Frank Howard was not good enough to play for SU, he was an after thought and would never play much.

Frank has made great strides to improve his game. I never imagined he’d play as well as he has this year. Washington is a different player, smaller and less athletic, so he has more to overcome to be a complete player. No doubt he can be a worthy backup and even compete for starter minutes in a few years. So hope he sticks it out. I know he really wanted to be here.