HW looked like deer in the headlights

[JrodCuse]

So many H0T Takes in this thread for a freshman that probably has less than 100 minutes played in his collegiate career thus far.

 

[br801]

I'm curious how everyone gets to this conclusion. Because he's missed 9 threes? Oshae has that many in the last couple of games. Because he's got shackles on him? Because of his defense? He's better right now than John Gillon all of last season on defense. Maybe you all are right, but it sure feels premature.

We sure love our small samples around here.

 

[AZOrange]

If Battle comes back then Washingtons possibly the 6th guard off the bench.

Zero chance Battle comes back. ZERO

 

[Orangefan1]

Good luck Battle

 

[Orangefan1]

HW is not even Buffalo talent. He just isn’t very good. Not sure what Coach w as thinking on him but idk. Everyone seems to think Carey is starting over Howard but Howard has been fairly consistent then entire year. Carey needs to prove it

 

[Waltdods]

I'm curious how everyone gets to this conclusion. Because he's missed 9 threes? Oshae has that many in the last couple of games. Because he's got shackles on him? Because of his defense? He's better right now than John Gillon all of last season on defense. Maybe you all are right, but it sure feels premature.

Agree there people are over-reacting in writing him off so definitively. If he sticks around the program, he will get chances and he’s got a long time to develop.

That said, his defense last night was atrocious. He was ball chasing constantly, and out of position I think I’m every possession he played. The zone is not easy to pick up (esp when you don’t get to play it much) so this isn’t a death sentence. But given where he’s at and his physical limitations it is hard to see him getting to passable defensively this year.

 

[orangecuse]

Fairness to JB, not JB to his players, probably not my best turn of words.

He went 8ish up until 2014, then some recruiting misses and schollie issues with the NCAA really really hampered us.

If Geno and Thompson where here he'd be playing 8-9 guys this year.

We can agree to disagree on that. I've been a fan since the 70's, and no way, imo, JB plays 8-9 guys this year (again, legitimate/meaningful minutes) as Moyer likely never comes off the bench, certainly Washington doesn't. And, as active as Marek is/has been, I doubt he gets any significant/meaningful minutes either. He barely played at all last night. JB's style really is no more than 7 players (guys who play a minute or two for someone else simply to get a little breather) aren't really minutes of significance in my view. It is his comfort zone, more importantly, he strongly feels (at the college level with all the TV timeouts, etc. ) you can win with only 7 guys, he has stated this repeatedly over the years in so many words. Again, that's fine as he has been very successful, but also as mentioned, his lack of bench development over the years is not one of his strong suits.

I would bet that if you went back 30-40 years and pulled stats/documentation relative to minutes played, etc., you would find that overwhelmingly that number would consistently fall in the 6.5-7 guys/game, again, minutes of significance, especially in conference play, not those early cupcake -'never leaving the Dome'- games we have all come to enjoy over the years.

 

[Jasoncuse]

He wasn't ever going to be ready to contribute much this year and then barely played in the games he should've been getting 10-15 minutes. It's no surprise that he's shaky.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Agree there people are over-reacting in writing him off so definitively. If he sticks around the program, he will get chances and he’s got a long time to develop.

That said, his defense last night was atrocious. He was ball chasing constantly, and out of position I think I’m every possession he played. The zone is not easy to pick up (esp when you don’t get to play it much) so this isn’t a death sentence. But given where he’s at and his physical limitations it is hard to see him getting to passable defensively this year.

He wasn't great defensively last night, but he has played well in the couple minutes I've seen him play previously. None of the guards were spectacular at keeping the guard from driving. It was a tough night all around.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I don’t think this is accurate.

It's very accurate.

 

[Bayside44]

We can agree to disagree on that. I've been a fan since the 70's, and no way, imo, JB plays 8-9 guys this year (again, legitimate/meaningful minutes) as Moyer likely never comes off the bench, certainly Washington doesn't. And, as active as Marek is/has been, I doubt he gets any significant/meaningful minutes either. He barely played at all last night. JB's style really is no more than 7 players (guys who play a minute or two for someone else simply to get a little breather) aren't really minutes of significance in my view. It is his comfort zone, more importantly, he strongly feels (at the college level with all the TV timeouts, etc. ) you can win with only 7 guys, he has stated this repeatedly over the years in so many words. Again, that's fine as he has been very successful, but also as mentioned, his lack of bench development over the years is not one of his strong suits.

I would bet that if you went back 30-40 years and pulled stats/documentation relative to minutes played, etc., you would find that overwhelmingly that number would consistently fall in the 6.5-7 guys/game, again, minutes of significance, especially in conference play, not those early cupcake -'never leaving the Dome'- games we have all come to enjoy over the years.

Our starting 5 would have TT an not Moyer. TT doesn't hustle Moyer / Marek get some run. Geno spells at guard for 8 to 10 and we have 2 centers assuming BS's health.

I didn't intend to imply equally balanced minutes. But that team I laid out has some options when needed.

 

[Eric15]

This is where missing Geno hurts the team.

This is exactly why I got a sinking feeling in stomach when Geno left. Losing an experienced, 5th year guard with a ton of game experience and the ability to score just totally sucks.

 

[orangepassion]

And Buddy after that.

Unless Buddy gets Boeheimed

 

[Eric15]

Unless Buddy gets Boeheimed

It would be funny if JB went to pull Buddy after a bad shot, and Buddy just said, "No! I'm not coming out!" and then JB is forced to do what every parent on Earth has to do when their kid gives them attitude, say to themselves "ugh, is this argument worth the effort?"

 

[CuseFaninVT]

It would be funny if JB went to pull Buddy after a bad shot, and Buddy just said, "No! I'm not coming out!" and then JB is forced to do what every parent on Earth has to do when their kid gives them attitude, say to themselves "ugh, is this argument worth the effort?"

Or worse yet, JB goes to pull him and his mother comes over and says no. And JB goes with it...

 

[realorange]

I corrected it... with buddy it’ll be 4 guards. As far as starting, I don’t think it’ll be a crisis. JC’s going to play and play a lot, probably more as the season wears on. Frank’s got size, he’s playing well, he can score and defend and he’ll be a senior. I don’t see him being demoted as a starter unless Carey’s the next Pearl. Carey will get plenty of court time and then get the keys to the program in ‘19.

If he's still around. Staff is telling him he can be one and done.

 

[two3zone]

Zero chance Battle comes back. ZERO

Not sure if you have inside info but with his numbers and the eye test, I just don't see it.

If he leaves he's making a mistake.

 

[Vorony]

Not sure if you have inside info but with his numbers and the eye test, I just don't see it.

If he leaves he's making a mistake.

This. I know this was Battle's mentality going into this season, which is why everyone is saying he's gone. But honestly, where is he going? He's not on anyone's radar right now, and even if he does well at the combine (assuming he gets an invite), there are so many talented players ahead of him at the guard position. I just don't see it. Unless he hates school and wants to get paid. Just doesn't make any sense based on what we've seen out of him so far - and we're halfway into the season now with MUCH harder games coming up.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

He's not on anyone's radar right now, and even if he does well at the combine (assuming he gets an invite), .

How could you possibly know this? And you think he might not get an invite to the combine? Seriously?

 

[Vorony]

How could you possibly know this? And you think he might not get an invite to the combine? Seriously?

Look at the mock drafts... at best, he's borderline late first round/early 2nd. I know those aren't the tell-all, but they're a pretty decent indication as to what might happen. And someone on this board has posted several times now some information given to him from an NBA scout who is a friend - that scout has basically confirmed what some of us here are saying. Regarding the combine - maybe that's a stretch, but his numbers right now aren't glowing. I'm not rooting against the guy, but he hasn't been great this year... especially in the last several games.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Look at the mock drafts... at best, he's borderline late first round/early 2nd. I know those aren't the tell-all, but they're a pretty decent indication as to what might happen. And someone on this board has posted several times now some information given to him from an NBA scout who is a friend - that scout has basically confirmed what some of us here are saying. Regarding the combine - maybe that's a stretch, but his numbers right now aren't glowing. I'm not rooting against the guy, but he hasn't been great this year... especially in the last several games.

Lots of scouts don't like to give away their hand either. The mock drafts are a joke right now.

 

[reedny]

If he's still around. Staff is telling him he can be one and done.

He has that level of talent. But FH has earned his starting spot -- I think we can all agree on that. JB's history (starting veterans) is unlikely to change IMO.

 

[Vorony]

Lots of scouts don't like to give away their hand either. The mock drafts are a joke right now.

So looking at Battle right now, you think he's one of the top players in college basketball? That all of the mock drafts are wrong and he's a sure first rounder this year? He's not even the best player on our team right now. If he starts playing like that, then we make a decent run this year. But he's too one-dimensional and opposing defenses know exactly how to guard him. That's a problem.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

So looking at Battle right now, you think he's one of the top players in college basketball? That all of the mock drafts are wrong and he's a sure first rounder this year? He's not even the best player on our team right now. If he starts playing like that, then we make a decent run this year. But he's too one-dimensional and opposing defenses know exactly how to guard him. That's a problem.

Why would you get that from my post? I was responding to your use of absolutes in your first post (not on anyone's radar). I try not to use absolutes. They don't work our for me very well.

He's one dimensional because we have no other dimensions. He's fulfilling his role as defined by JB and the lack of offensive talent on the floor. If someone could start knocking down shots besides Frank, I think you'd see him expand that role appropriately.

 

[Vorony]

Why would you get that from my post? I was responding to your use of absolutes in your first post (not on anyone's radar). I try not to use absolutes. They don't work our for me very well.

He's one dimensional because we have no other dimensions. He's fulfilling his role as defined by JB and the lack of offensive talent on the floor. If someone could start knocking down shots besides Frank, I think you'd see him expand that role appropriately.

No arguments on your last paragraph here. And didn't mean to speak in absolutes - that wasn't my intention. Hard to convey a point properly sometimes via a message board. Just noting the lack of national recognition right now for both the team and Battle individually, as well as the mock drafts which don't view him as favorably right now.

Listen, I'll gladly eat my words if he can snap out of this and make a good run for himself. I want him to do well, because that means the team does well. Gotta bounce back on Saturday and start making something happen. But IF Battle does come back, all of the things you mention in your last paragraph regarding offensive talent becomes a benefit for him next year. We'll see.