I’m calling bulldinky.

[samspann1]

That isn't targeting. You can clearly see the crown of helmet.
Sometimes we just see what we want to see

“No player shall target and make forcible contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent (See Note 2 below) with the helmet, forearm, hand, fist, elbow or shoulder”

 

[SWC75]

That isn't targeting. You can clearly see the crown of helmet.
Sometimes we just see what we want to see

I think that picture is after the initial contact. The replay I saw showed Shrader being hit on the side of the helmet and his head snapping back.

 

[capeorange]

That, the first pass interference on us and the no call when Alford was held more on the same sideline were all atrocious. The rest debatable. But those three alone were impactful. And the acting job by klutnick on the nudge by wax was insane.

It was an obvious acting job but Wax should have never chest bumped him. It was a stupid play on his part.

 

[Orangefan1]

The refs aren’t doing there damn jobs and our head coach puts his head in the sand when his players need him the most…

 

[MadNY3]

I love this inevitable oh so noble cliched nonsense.

When we get lucky we will admit it but they saved them a few times

I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[blizz]

Was saying it all day in the game thread. The cheating by Syracuse was egregious

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[KellySyracuse]

Dabo wanted them to send a message to Shrader right from the start and the refs gave him an assist. The rest of the game sucked.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Way to celebrate it like a bunch of buttholes, ya bunch of buttholes.

 

[Millhouse]

I have no idea what you are talking about.

You think it's weak to ever discuss refs

 

[MadNY3]

You think it's weak to ever discuss refs

I think it is weak AF to blame the refs for this loss.

 

[pokercuse08]

This isn't going to be popular around here, but man, that looks clean to me. Watched it seven or eight times. I dunno if I'd have overturned the call on the field because it's very close, but I'm a lot less angry. The main thing is, when contact is made, Shrader's head keeps going forward while his body goes backwards, then his head snaps back after. So that means that there was not helmet-to-helmet contact initially, Shrader's helmet snapped into Mascoll's.

Sure looks like a form tackle, shoulder into the chest, helmet tucked. Only way it's targeting is if he launched himself or crouched down and extended, but from that angle it doesn't look like it at all.

 

[samspann1]

This isn't going to be popular around here, but man, that looks clean to me. Watched it seven or eight times. I dunno if I'd have overturned the call on the field because it's very close, but I'm a lot less angry. The main thing is, when contact is made, Shrader's head keeps going forward while his body goes backwards, then his head snaps back after. So that means that there was not helmet-to-helmet contact initially, Shrader's helmet snapped into Mascoll's.

Sure looks like a form tackle, shoulder into the chest, helmet tucked. Only way it's targeting is if he launched himself or crouched down and extended, but from that angle it doesn't look like it at all.

“No player shall target and make forcible contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent (See Note 2 below) with the helmet, forearm, hand, fist, elbow or shoulder”

 

[OrangeXtreme]

ND player just got ejected for targeting, and the hit on Shafer was a lot worse.

 

[pokercuse08]

“No player shall target and make forcible contact to the head or neck area of a defenseless opponent (See Note 2 below) with the helmet, forearm, hand, fist, elbow or shoulder”

If you combine that video, and the knowledge from it that Shrader's head snapped forward on contact, with this picture...

It sure looks like Mascoll put his shoulder into Shrader's chest and his helmet into Shrader's shoulder, and Shrader's head snapped forward into Mascoll's helmet. He got a run at him at full speed, unfortunate the way Shrader got himself lined up like that. But that's about what's gonna happen when a defensive end gets a free run at a stationary quarterback who doesn't see him coming.

 

[samspann1]

If you combine that video, and the knowledge from it that Shrader's head snapped forward on contact, with this picture...

View attachment 231796

It sure looks like Mascoll put his shoulder into Shrader's chest and his helmet into Shrader's shoulder, and Shrader's head snapped forward into Mascoll's helmet. He got a run at him at full speed, unfortunate the way Shrader got himself lined up like that. But that's about what's gonna happen when a defensive end gets a free run at a stationary quarterback who doesn't see him coming.

The last sentence of your post sure does make it sound like Shrader was a defenseless player…

 

[PhatOrange]

How about Clark’s kick catch interference call?

None of us saw a fair catch signal and we all thought the ball hit the return man before Clark did.

Anyone see a replay of that?

 

[PhatOrange]

Regarding the Shrader hit. I wasn’t
sure it was targeting but one replay it did appear the crown hit him in the jaw first.

 

[pokercuse08]

The last sentence of your post sure does make it sound like Shrader was a defenseless player…

Read the rule. He didn't target the head/neck. And just because he's lined up doesn't mean he's defenseless. Forward progress wasn't blown yet. He could have still fallen forward.

 

[pokercuse08]

You know, speaking of this hit and coaching, I used to cover the Eagles and Andy Reid used to have a mantra for McNabb when running. "Touchdown, first down, get down." He was okay with McNabb risking a hit to score, or to move the chains, but if neither of those things were in play, he wanted him to slide at the first sign of a hit coming.

This play was a perfect example of all the reasons why. Shrader got the first down, had no shot at a touchdown, and was spinning and hesitating in a crowd. It's asking for trouble. If he gets down at the first sign of contact after the first down, we're not even having this discussion right now.

 

[samspann1]

Read the rule. He didn't target the head/neck. And just because he's lined up doesn't mean he's defenseless. Forward progress wasn't blown yet. He could have still fallen forward.

I’ve read the entire rule and the picture posted up thread speaks for itself. It was ruled on the field as targeting.

Also, a new piece of language added to the Rules Manual in 2018: “When in question, a player is defenseless.”

 

[Cheriehoop]

That isn't targeting. You can clearly see the crown of helmet.
Sometimes we just see what we want to see

Getting hit by the crown of the helmet is only one example of targeting. According to this article, the rules have a number of possibilities that are considered targeting.

College football targeting, explained: How controversial rule works, from penalty yardage to ejections | Sporting News

College football's targeting rule is one of the most intensely debated rules in organized sports. The Sporting News attempts to provide clarity about it.

www.sportingnews.com

Article 4 seems to be the most appropriate application.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I’ve read the entire rule and the picture posted up thread speaks for itself. It was ruled on the field as targeting.

Also, a new piece of language added to the Rules Manual in 2018: “When in question, a player is defenseless.”

Agree, just looking at picture #1 and picture #4 of the hit on Garrett, the Clemson player not only knocked his head and neck with his helmet twisting Shrader’s head but look at his feet off the ground in the 4th picture - that Clemson player totally launched his body into him. Visual definition of targeting.

Clemson shakes up Garrett Shrader, and Syracuse offense can’t get rolling in 31-14 loss

The Orange had three turnovers, starting with a fumble by Shrader on a rough hit on the first possession of a 31-14 loss.

www.syracuse.com

 

[Millhouse]

Read the rule. He didn't target the head/neck. And just because he's lined up doesn't mean he's defenseless. Forward progress wasn't blown yet. He could have still fallen forward.

I thought the refs were terrible and I am ok with that non call. Shrader turned right into it

 

[Millhouse]

You know, speaking of this hit and coaching, I used to cover the Eagles and Andy Reid used to have a mantra for McNabb when running. "Touchdown, first down, get down." He was okay with McNabb risking a hit to score, or to move the chains, but if neither of those things were in play, he wanted him to slide at the first sign of a hit coming.

This play was a perfect example of all the reasons why. Shrader got the first down, had no shot at a touchdown, and was spinning and hesitating in a crowd. It's asking for trouble. If he gets down at the first sign of contact after the first down, we're not even having this discussion right now.

Player has to have some responsibility for knowing where people are. If you're blind sided because you're spinning around in the middle of the field, it's tough to get a flag when you get blown up