I Am Simply in a State of Shock......

[kcsu]

Exactly. I think people are delusional like playing m2m would make a difference. It wouldn’t.

Yes it would.

 

[RF2044]

For the most part, this team cannot consistently make baskets. Instead of passing the ball around, tend to take wild shots. Sometimes they're lucky and the ball goes in.

Agreed. I think offensive coaching is a MUCH bigger problem than defense.

We are a lower end team in the conference at this point, for the second year in a row. And teams with a pulse all seem to be able to tee off on us.

It was sickening watching the Pitt players and coaches posture / celebrate all game long. To say nothing of their insipid fans.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I hate the design of the offense, but we are 3rd in the conference in FG% and 3rd in 3pt%. We should shoot more threes. The strategy ain’t great, but it’s not nearly as bad as the defense.

We are 361st out of 363 teams in 3 pointers given up.

We are 356th on offensive rebounds given up.

Both are systemic issues with the zone.

 

[AZOrange]

I hate the design of the offense, but we are 3rd in the conference in FG% and 3rd in 3pt%. We should shoot
more threes. The strategy ain’t great, but it’s not nearly as bad as the defense.

We are 361st out of 363 teams in 3 pointers given up.

We are 356th on offensive rebounds given up.

Both are systemic issues with the zone.

Not understanding what side of the ball the REAL problem is on is our biggest problem…defense leads to offense…always has always will

 

[Janner]

My issue isn't necessarly the zone, though a team should have another defensive option if their opponent is a "bad match-up" for that defense, or if a team gets in a groove and starts torching it, or end of half/game situations coming out of timeouts ect with plays set to beat the zone (situational). The largest problem is if you are going to play the zone as the primary defense then you need to recruit and build your team to meet that need. That means long athletic players at every position. If you look at our successful teams over the years that was the fundamental building block for success more often than not. JB has stopped doing that. Either he choose not to or can't get the players anymore. Either way we will not be successful with JB at the helm again until that changes.

 

[Scooch]

Agreed. I think offensive coaching is a MUCH bigger problem than defense.

We are a lower end team in the conference at this point, for the second year in a row. And teams with a pulse all seem to be able to tee off on us.

It was sickening watching the Pitt players and coaches posture / celebrate all game long. To say nothing of their insipid fans.

I didn’t watch the game, but after JB’s garbage comments about buying players, I’d say Pitt had every right to rub our noses in it.

 

[Scooch]

I hate the design of the offense, but we are 3rd in the conference in FG% and 3rd in 3pt%. We should shoot
more threes. The strategy ain’t great, but it’s not nearly as bad as the defense.

We are 361st out of 363 teams in 3 pointers given up.

We are 356th on offensive rebounds given up.

Both are systemic issues with the zone.

Buddy’s not here. We don’t shoot 3s anymore. It’s that simple.

 

[Scooch]

My issue isn't necessarly the zone, though a team should have another defensive option if their opponent is a "bad match-up" for that defense, or if a team gets in a groove and starts torching it, or end of half/game situations coming out of timeouts ect with plays set to beat the zone (situational). The largest problem is if you are going to play the zone as the primary defense then you need to recruit and build your team to meet that need. That means long athletic players at every position. If you look at our successful teams over the years that was the fundamental building block for success more often than not. JB has stopped doing that. Either he choose not to or can't get the players anymore. Either way we will not be successful with JB at the helm again until that changes.

Chose not to. Buddy, Jimmy, Joe.

 

[Gotothehole]

He is what built this program but he is also what is breaking it apart. I respect him as a coach and he is the most recognizable name and man in Central New York, but the window of opportunity for him to leave gracefully has passed - he just needs to leave and we need to forget of his ways and evolve to the game.

 

[newmexicuse]

I think the zone can still be effective if used with the right players and/or situations. Other teams utilize the zone but also play man to man, not exclusively. Our downfall is solely relying on the zone and having no answers when it is ineffective.

Agreed, nobody here is saying we should not play ANY Zone.

Our secondary D should be man, not that dumbbutt press that gets beaten half the time and then falls back into a Zone.

Just as you play to the hot hand on O, you should have both D's. and you play to the one that is most effective in a given game while also mixing it up so that O's have a harder time adjusting.

 

[shu 49]

I say it’s his use of defenders coming up from back when they are already guarded. If u watch brown comes up to help defend guy at three point line who already has Joe there in front of him and now u have open guy in corner or kinda under basket depending on where he goes. As u pass to him they switch and always end up with one guy wide open cause we doubled first guy. We use to get traps in corners and I haven’t seen that in 10 years. His rotations aren’t working. I have noticed this last 5 years or so. I don’t remember have Rick Jackson ever run to guard area three line and help double someone. The elbow was our weakness before but now all u gotta do is keep passing to wide open guy. I was a wrestler in hs and college and I can see how this isn’t working. How does Jim not see it. Time for him to go enjoy his retirement.

 

[SU91]

Yes it would.

There are several teams below us in the standings, are there not? Those teams play m2m, do they not? Do you think those teams would be better if they switched to zone? Probably not. Why do they suck worse than us? Because their players aren’t as good. Why do we suck worse than the teams ahead of us in the standings? Because our players aren’t as good. Should BC switch to a different defense? That must be the answer to their problems, right? I mean, they play m2m, but somehow still suck. They should probably switch to zone and they’d be winners! No. It’s because they suck. Just like we do. It’s been recorded, we have like one top 100 player. Recipe for …sucking.

Now, the zone is one of the reasons we can’t recruit, because m2m is more “manly” and is the primary defense in the pros. I’ll give you that. It’s also one of the reasons we can’t get portal/transfer players to work, because it takes time to learn. It’s also the reason young player turnover affects us so badly, because, just as they’ve started to learn the zone, they leave. It’s also a problem with rebounding, we know that. Although, I’d argue Wes Johnson and AO didn’t have such a problem rebounding in the zone. In fact, many years we were a very good offensive rebounding team, not anymore. Offensive rebounding has nothing to do with the zone. Wonder why?

The zone is the reason for many negative things, but I won’t stop arguing that m2m won’t make a difference with this team. I mean, I shudder at the thought of Joe Girard trying to cover someone. Holy cow! So, Joe, your primary option to score beyond your freshman PG, wouldn’t even be able to stay on the floor because he’d get shredded every time he ran back on D. It wouldn’t even be fair.

We need a new coach because nobody wants to play for an old curmudgeon anymore. There’s too much negative recruiting going on. Recruiting against the zone is part of that, for sure. Less talented players equals losses.

Look at Hurley. He sucks. UConn plays m2m. He’s eaten our lunch recruiting. His team is good. Why? Because they m2m? No, because his players are pretty good. I’d argue that Hurley is under achieving with those players. In fact, I think JB with that team, with those players, would be fairing much better than Hurley. JB is a better coach. Yet, Hurley has the better team. Hmm.

Can’t get around it. Syracuse just isn’t the same anymore. Until a new image (ie Coach) can change the trajectory and get better players.

 

[RF2044]

I didn’t watch the game, but after JB’s garbage comments about buying players, I’d say Pitt had every right to rub our noses in it.

Agreed.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Buddy’s not here. We don’t shoot 3s anymore. It’s that simple.

We have other guys who are decent to good shooters. We are forcing the ball inside to a guy who is average in the post.

The defense is still the main problem though. I‘m not saying the talent is great because it isn’t, but there’s coaches out there that would do a better job than this.

 

[shu 49]

There are several teams below us in the standings, are there not? Those teams play m2m, do they not? Do you think those teams would be better if they switched to zone? Probably not. Why do they suck worse than us? Because their players aren’t as good. Why do we suck worse than the teams ahead of us in the standings? Because our players aren’t as good. Should BC switch to a different defense? That must be the answer to their problems, right? I mean, they play m2m, but somehow still suck. They should probably switch to zone and they’d be winners! No. It’s because they suck. Just like we do. It’s been recorded, we have like one top 100 player. Recipe for …sucking.

Now, the zone is one of the reasons we can’t recruit, because m2m is more “manly” and is the primary defense in the pros. I’ll give you that. It’s also one of the reasons we can’t get portal/transfer players to work, because it takes time to learn. It’s also the reason young player turnover affects us so badly, because, just as they’ve started to learn the zone, they leave. It’s also a problem with rebounding, we know that. Although, I’d argue Wes Johnson and AO didn’t have such a problem rebounding in the zone. In fact, many years we were a very good offensive rebounding team, not anymore. Offensive rebounding has nothing to do with the zone. Wonder why?

The zone is the reason for many negative things, but I won’t stop arguing that m2m won’t make a difference with this team. I mean, I shudder at the thought of Joe Girard trying to cover someone. Holy cow! So, Joe, your primary option to score beyond your freshman PG, wouldn’t even be able to stay on the floor because he’d get shredded every time he ran back on D. It wouldn’t even be fair.

We need a new coach because nobody wants to play for an old curmudgeon anymore. There’s too much negative recruiting going on. Recruiting against the zone is part of that, for sure. Less talented players equals losses.

Look at Hurley. He sucks. UConn plays m2m. He’s eaten our lunch recruiting. His team is good. Why? Because they m2m? No, because his players are pretty good. I’d argue that Hurley is under achieving with those players. In fact, I think JB with that team, with those players, would be fairing much better than Hurley. JB is a better coach. Yet, Hurley has the better team. Hmm.

Can’t get around it. Syracuse just isn’t the same anymore. Until a new image (ie Coach) can change the trajectory and get better players.

I think a lot of that rebounding was due to us not coming up and doubling guard on perimeter like we do now. It’s not a good idea.

 

[Scooch]

We have other guys who are decent to good shooters. We are forcing the ball inside to a guy who is average in the post.

Oh I agree 1000%. We should be shooting twice the amount of 3s we take. But we don’t. It’s dumb.

 

[newmexicuse]

I hate the design of the offense, but we are 3rd in the conference in FG% and 3rd in 3pt%. We should shoot
more threes. The strategy ain’t great, but it’s not nearly as bad as the defense.

We are 361st out of 363 teams in 3 pointers given up.

We are 356th on offensive rebounds given up.

Both are systemic issues with the zone.

"Systemic issues with the Zone" - absolutely spot on great post !!!!

 

[Dcuse]

Agreed. I think offensive coaching is a MUCH bigger problem than defense.

We are a lower end team in the conference at this point, for the second year in a row. And teams with a pulse all seem to be able to tee off on us.

It was sickening watching the Pitt players and coaches posture / celebrate all game long. To say nothing of their insipid fans.

Wow. You’ve watched Syracuse basketball the last 2 years and this is your take? Offense is a bigger problem?
Yikes.

 

[RF2044]

I hate the design of the offense, but we are 3rd in the conference in FG% and 3rd in 3pt%. We should shoot
more threes. The strategy ain’t great, but it’s not nearly as bad as the defense.

We are 361st out of 363 teams in 3 pointers given up.

We are 356th on offensive rebounds given up.

Both are systemic issues with the zone.

Oh, don't get me wrong, the defense is lousy.

But why is it that every team you play seems to have a much better grasp of offensive fundamentals that we do? They all set screens, move well without the ball, find wide open shooters, move well without the ball, etc.

We rely on an unathletic 511 guy trying to create against much larger defenders, a 7-footer trying to back guys in from 10 ft away, and hero ball from a freshman.

Tired of watching this slop.

I look forward to the inevitable change at this point. JB has run the program into the ground, I don't think any of the assistant coaches excel at teaching the game.

 

[RF2044]

Wow. You’ve watched Syracuse basketball the last 2 years and this is your take? Offense is a bigger problem?
Yikes.

If by that you mean I'm not pining to go back to the rock fight salad days of tyus battle, where we still didn't score and still got blown out a lot despite having better athletes for the zone, yes.

I personally think recruiting is the biggest problem, but our offensive concept is outdated. Oh, and the defense sucks too, quite a trifecta from the HOFer.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If by that you mean I'm not pining to go back to the rock fight salad days of tyus battle, where we still didn't score and still got blown out a lot despite having better athletes for the zone, yes.

I personally think recruiting is the biggest problem, but our offensive concept is outdated. Oh, and the defense sucks too, quite a trifecta from the HOFer.

I said this in another thread, but he’s stuck in the ISO era of the 90’s and 2000’s. There’s actually something to work with on that side of the ball, but we aren’t putting our guys in the best chances to succeed.

 

[RF2044]

I said this in another thread, but he’s stuck in the ISO era of the 90’s and 2000’s. There’s actually something to work with on that side of the ball, but we aren’t putting our guys in the best chances to succeed.

You're right. Bad coaching, bad concept, bad teaching in practice.

Meanwhile, every other team we play out executes us to death, no matter what caliber of recruits they have.

 

[SU91]

Oh I agree 1000%. We should be shooting twice the amount of 3s we take. But we don’t. It’s dumb.

We can’t get them off.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

So you are thinking this team, playing M2M, or mixing defenses, would be beating Duke, Clemson, Pitt? That this is a talented bunch if only JB was less stubborn?

I am all for M2M, for future SU teams, but this roster just isn’t that good. 8th or 9th in ACC talent - best case.

From the outside, given the evidence, it might appear that JB recruits lesser athletes in order to justify the exclusive use of zone, thus easing his coaching burden.

 

[djcon57]

From the outside, given the evidence, it might appear that JB recruits lesser athletes in order to justify the exclusive use of zone, thus easing his coaching burden.

He used to specifically recruit athletes for the zone. Hell he still gets the 7 foot plus center to do nothing but stand tall that basically no other program covets anymore in today’s positionless basketball

the specs on the requirements of playing in the zone changed around 4 years ago, I can’t put my finger on it though.