I did not expect Girard to be our most effective freshman

[STEVEHOLT]

If Guerrier and Carey played up to their billing, we’d be fine. They’re two guys with “Syracuse” athleticism and/or size and strength and we’ve gotten next to nothing out of both of them so far.

if Goodine was given the hundreds of miles of rope girard has been afforded , it would be very different right now

 

[20plus]

if Goodine was given the hundreds of miles of rope girard has been afforded , it would be very different right now

This is the biggest problem with our coaching Some players our allowed to make major mistake after mistake and others can’t. Clearly Q and Brycen are uncomfortable and when they’re uncomfortable they play to less than their ability. this is a lot of what’s going on with Q and Brycen.
This is not to say that they’re not both leaving a lot to be desired for the overall play

The point is how to fix it!

 

[Cusefan0307]

This is the biggest problem with our coaching Some players our allowed to make major mistake after mistake and others can’t. Clearly Q and Brycen are uncomfortable and when they’re uncomfortable they play to less than their ability. this is a lot of what’s going on with Q and Brycen.
This is not to say that they’re not both leaving a lot to be desired for the overall play

The point is how to fix it!

Guerrier has had plenty of chances to play. He just hasn't played well. We were -14 in the 5 minutes he was in Saturday. That was the ball game. He's a net minus 10 per 100 possessions on the season in 18 MPG,

 

[Dcuse]

if Goodine was given the hundreds of miles of rope girard has been afforded , it would be very different right now

Please tell me you’re kidding.

 

[Bayside44]

This is the biggest problem with our coaching Some players our allowed to make major mistake after mistake and others can’t. Clearly Q and Brycen are uncomfortable and when they’re uncomfortable they play to less than their ability. this is a lot of what’s going on with Q and Brycen.
This is not to say that they’re not both leaving a lot to be desired for the overall play

The point is how to fix it!

Shooters will always get rope with JB, nothing really new there.

 

[Alsacs]

The problem we have is JB gives tenure to players and that doesn't change during the season.
Maybe after the season he adjusts but he won't cut back minutes. He thinks his best players should play a lot.
That makes sense when the players are Senior Michael Gbinije, Rak Christmas, CJ Fair type players but nobody on this team except Elijah Hughes should have the rope of playing high 30MPG.
I would rather see what Goodine, Guerrier, Edwards, Braswell have and get extended minutes to develop.
We aren't competing for a NCAAT berth this year. Instead, we will ride the hot/cold streaks of the starters and its going to be up and down.
It's very frustrating we don't change.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The problem we have is JB gives tenure to players and that doesn't change during the season.
Maybe after the season he adjusts but he won't cut back minutes. He thinks his best players should play a lot.
That makes sense when the players are Senior Michael Gbinije, Rak Christmas, CJ Fair type players but nobody on this team except Elijah Hughes should have the rope of playing high 30MPG.
I would rather see what Goodine, Guerrier, Edwards, Braswell have and get extended minutes to develop.
We aren't competing for a NCAAT berth this year. Instead, we will ride the hot/cold streaks of the starters and its going to be up and down.
It's very frustrating we don't change.

I agree with you on Bras, but you can't say that about Guerrier. He's received plenty of chances. Goodine received chances too and was passed by Washington. I know a lot of people say JB has set rotations, but he's mixed up who has played a lot since the start of the season.

 

[Alsacs]

I agree with you on Bras, but you can't say that about Guerrier. He's received plenty of chances. Goodine received chances too and was passed by Washington. I know a lot of people say JB has set rotations, but he's mixed up who has played a lot since the start of the season.

Look at the Gtown box score. We played 8 guys. Washington got 11 minutes. Guerrier 5 minutes. Edwards 10 minutes.
That is not helping player development.
It's like we can't mix having an offensive guard and defensive guard on the floor at the same time.
I don't think 5 minutes is enough for Guerrier. The rotations will mix up when the players outside of Hughes aren't playing 30 MPG.

 

[realorange]

JB makes a lot of his judgement on game time play by what the player has shown in practice. Otherwise, based on what we might think, Washington would not be getting any minutes.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Look at the Gtown box score. We played 8 guys. Washington got 11 minutes. Guerrier 5 minutes. Edwards 10 minutes.
That is not helping player development.
It's like we can't mix having an offensive guard and defensive guard on the floor at the same time.
I don't think 5 minutes is enough for Guerrier. The rotations will mix up when the players outside of Hughes aren't playing 30 MPG.

Guerrier was terrible. He was -14. That lost us the game. Look at his stats this year. He’s-11 points per 100 possessions. We need him to be better, but he’s got plenty of chances. No coach in America would have played him more Saturday the way he played.

 

[SoBristol]

Look at the Gtown box score. We played 8 guys . . .
I don't think 5 minutes is enough for Guerrier. The rotations will mix up when the players outside of Hughes aren't playing 30 MPG.

The rotations will mix up when the reserves prove, in practice and in whatever time they get, that they deserve more.
And JB isn’t going to change his approach. Going to use his best guys this season, as much as it takes, to try to win.

 

[Alsacs]

Guerrier was terrible. He was -14. That lost us the game. Look at his stats this year. He’s-11 points per 100 possessions. We need him to be better, but he’s got plenty of chances. No coach in America would have played him more Saturday the way he played.

I just don't expect to be a top 25 team by the team Buddy's a Senior. That is my frustration. I am a realist not an idealist. If I had reason to believe things were going to get better I honestly would say it. I am optimistic about football because I believe in Dino Babers. I think Jim Boeheim is a HOFer but I don't believe this program will be top 5 ACC good before Buddy graduates. He doesn't recruit to fix our weaknesses. It's fly by the seat our pants each year and hope we make shots/or grind ugly games.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Guerrier was terrible. He was -14. That lost us the game. Look at his stats this year. He’s-11 points per 100 possessions. We need him to be better, but he’s got plenty of chances. No coach in America would have played him more Saturday the way he played.

I don't know about that. First off, I hate those plus minus stats. Unless you can show me he was the one giving up the open shots (which I tend to doubt). And at least one of the fouls he picked up was an absolute travesty. I think other players do the same thing (I'm thinking specifically of Marek and him picking up a foul 90 feet from the basket every damned game) they get more rope to play through those jitters.
We needed rebounding. We weren't going to get that with Guerrier sitting on the bench. And we didn't.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

The rotations will mix up when the reserves prove, in practice and in whatever time they get, that they deserve more.
And JB isn’t going to change his approach. Going to use his best guys this season, as much as it takes, to try to win.

I would love to sit in practice a few times to see about this playing in practice gets you more time. Wonder if RF2044 could help me out with this. I know from watching my own kid that when he practices with the first team guys, he absolutely looks like he belongs. But if he's playing with the second unit, he doesn't play the same way. Does the coaching staff move the players around to see how they do with other players? Honest curiosity here.

 

[Bayside44]

I don't know about that. First off, I hate those plus minus stats. Unless you can show me he was the one giving up the open shots (which I tend to doubt). And at least one of the fouls he picked up was an absolute travesty. I think other players do the same thing (I'm thinking specifically of Marek and him picking up a foul 90 feet from the basket every damned game) they get more rope to play through those jitters.
We needed rebounding. We weren't going to get that with Guerrier sitting on the bench. And we didn't.

Off the top of my head he shot an ill advised 3 and had a couple of drives in the paint where he twisted himself into a corkscrew.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Off the top of my head he shot an ill advised 3 and had a couple of drives in the paint where he twisted himself into a corkscrew.

That 3 needs to go away, I'll definitely give you that. Why do these kids keep thinking they should shoot when they've clearly been told to NOT?

I'll take drives into the paint every day of the week. Actually attacking the basket might help with that foul disparity we saw. If you just shoot jumpers, you aren't going to the free throw line. Typically.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I don't know about that. First off, I hate those plus minus stats. Unless you can show me he was the one giving up the open shots (which I tend to doubt). And at least one of the fouls he picked up was an absolute travesty. I think other players do the same thing (I'm thinking specifically of Marek and him picking up a foul 90 feet from the basket every damned game) they get more rope to play through those jitters.
We needed rebounding. We weren't going to get that with Guerrier sitting on the bench. And we didn't.

People hate the plus/minus stats when it doesn’t reinforce their opinion. People though buddy had the worst plus/minus on Saturday and were wrong. Go rewatch the tape. Marek got his third foul, Guerrier came in, and we fell apart. He was a black hole on about 3 straight offensive possession.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

People hate the plus/minus stats when it doesn’t reinforce their opinion. People though buddy had the worst plus/minus on Saturday and were wrong. Go rewatch the tape. Marek got his third foul, Guerrier came in, and we fell apart. He was a black hole on about 3 straight offensive possession.

I've deleted it already.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

People hate the plus/minus stats when it doesn’t reinforce their opinion. People though buddy had the worst plus/minus on Saturday and were wrong. Go rewatch the tape. Marek got his third foul, Guerrier came in, and we fell apart. He was a black hole on about 3 straight offensive possession.

Okay, so just going by the play by play.

3:40 left - Marek picks up his 3rd foul (assume Guerrier substitutes immediately)
3:02 - Eli Hughes turnover which leads to a gtown runout and layup
2:48 - Eli Hughes missed 3 pointer (cause he got blocked)
2:10 - QG missed 3 pointer
1:29 - Buddy missed jumper
0:41 - Joe missed 3 pointer
0:31 - QG turnover
0:09 - Eli made jumper

I know these are without context, but I'm seeing plenty of blame to go around. Add in the fact that HoWash (who I'm a huge fan of) was in during some of this. Our offense will go bad from time to time by relying on the 3 so much.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Okay, so just going by the play by play.

3:40 left - Marek picks up his 3rd foul (assume Guerrier substitutes immediately)
3:02 - Eli Hughes turnover which leads to a gtown runout and layup
2:48 - Eli Hughes missed 3 pointer (cause he got blocked)
2:10 - QG missed 3 pointer
1:29 - Buddy missed jumper
0:41 - Joe missed 3 pointer
0:31 - QG turnover
0:09 - Eli made jumper

I know these are without context, but I'm seeing plenty of blame to go around. Add in the fact that HoWash (who I'm a huge fan of) was in during some of this. Our offense will go bad from time to time by relying on the 3 so much.

Well we were 14-32 from 3. That is the game these days. People complained when we couldn't make 3's for the past few years. Get a big guy and PF that can rebound and we can be a solid team.

 

[OttoMets]

Couple of thoughts on this:

-- Guerrier has a little terrance roberts in his game offensively. That's not a compliment. Hope the game slows down for him and he stops landing on his back when he attacks the rim, ideally.

...

Yes. All these people are saying Guerrier needs to do this, Guerrier needs to do that. I've asked once or twice but can't get a straight answer - what the hell is Guerrier supposed to do?

Not at all a knock on him, but he just doesn't look like a basketball player. Not for a moment, not even when he had that strong second half with 15 or 17 points a few weeks ago, have I thought that this is someone who should be expected to produce as a freshman. Roberts is maybe a good comp, though Roberts could make a post move and get to (and above!) the rim as a freshman and, despite having hands of stone, generally seemed like he'd learned how to play basketball before coming to college.

Quincy seems like a victim of unreasonable expectations. I don't know why anyone thought he'd be a one-and-done. Did they look at his silhouette, compare it to Zion Williamson, and think he's the right shape to be good at basketball so he must be?

He plays hard and I hear he's a very nice guy. But nothing in his game suggests he's going to be any more effective this year than Matt Moyer was a couple seasons back.

 

[OttoMets]

Shooters will always get rope with JB, nothing really new there.

You think? I dunno.

I remember a lot of clamoring for Nicholses and Shumperts and Southerlands and Cooneys early in their tenures. (Ironic in the case of the latter, given the popular opinion on his minutes as an upperclassman.)

 

[Cusefan0307]

Yes. All these people are saying Guerrier needs to do this, Guerrier needs to do that. I've asked once or twice but can't get a straight answer - what the hell is Guerrier supposed to do?

Not at all a knock on him, but he just doesn't look like a basketball player. Not for a moment, not even when he had that strong second half with 15 or 17 points a few weeks ago, have I thought that this is someone who should be expected to produce as a freshman. Roberts is maybe a good comp, though Roberts could make a post move and get to (and above!) the rim as a freshman and, despite having hands of stone, generally seemed like he'd learned how to play basketball before coming to college.

Quincy seems like a victim of unreasonable expectations. I don't know why anyone thought he'd be a one-and-done. Did they look at his silhouette, compare it to Zion Williamson, and thing he's the right shape to be good at basketball so he must be?

He plays hard and I hear he's a very nice guy. But nothing in his game suggests he's going to be any more effective this year than Matt Moyer was a couple seasons back.

It's weird that the one and done hype came from media people like Goodman. I guess he dominated some camps over the summer. I wonder what the competition was there.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I would love to sit in practice a few times to see about this playing in practice gets you more time. Wonder if RF2044 could help me out with this. I know from watching my own kid that when he practices with the first team guys, he absolutely looks like he belongs. But if he's playing with the second unit, he doesn't play the same way. Does the coaching staff move the players around to see how they do with other players? Honest curiosity here.

Something must because Carey and Goodine were at the top of the pecking order this summer and against Virginia. They since have been past by JG and HW.

 

[Alsacs]

Well we were 14-32 from 3. That is the game these days. People complained when we couldn't make 3's for the past few years. Get a big guy and PF that can rebound and we can be a solid team.

Honest question why did JB find the constant need to publicly say what he did about Tyler Roberson? Roberson was the rebounder. I get the guy isn't a stretch 4 but he did the dirty work. The fact he wanted to be a little more isn't worth ripping the kid. Nobody would want Roberson to have a green light but he was killed.
Find elite college coaches who do that?