I don't care what measure you use...

[KingOtis]

We had plenty of clunkers in that time period in 2002-03 too...

Such as?

The losses came against Pitt (Edelin's first game), UConn (had our number back then) and Rutgers (buzzer-beater). All on the road in tough environments.

Yes, we spotted some teams big leads, but that press with McNeil guarding the basket was incredible.

 

[AZOrange]

Our defense was good when it wanted to be - during our run - but was pretty insipid during USF's 18-5 start and during much of the Rutgers game. There's been a lot of matador-ing from every front-line player not named Fair.

Even with the good teams, we haven't played well. We beat Georgetown, but we played very poorly in coughing up a late lead and letting the game get to overtime.

Games are 40 minutes long...(to steal from Marsh).

 

[KingOtis]

How do we (right now) look any more/less like a championship caliber team than UK (or Louisville)? Or to put it another way how do other teams look more like a championship caliber team than we do right now?

Again, I don't give a s*** about other teams. If we don't take care of business, it won't matter how other teams fare.

 

[AZOrange]

Such as?

The losses came against Pitt (Edelin's first game), UConn (had our number back then) and Rutgers (buzzer-beater). All on the road in tough environments.

Yes, we spotted some teams big leads, but that press with McNeil guarding the basket was incredible.

Ok, so that is 4 (uconn twice). I seem to remember playing poorly against Miami that year too...I mean in the game leading into the NCAAs that year we shot 28% from the field and 11% from 3...

 

[AZOrange]

Again, I don't give a s*** about other teams. If we don't take care of business, it won't matter how other teams fare.

well we play "other teams"...and when you say things like we dont look like a team that can get to New Orleans you are inferring that is because there are teams that are better than us that will beat us...

 

[44cuse]

Yeah. If we win every game the rest of the way in the same fashion we've won the last 5 games, that's all that counts.

Got it. I understand now. You would rather have been: Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Louisville, or Cincinnati than UCONN last year. They all had more wins than UCONN in the Big East. And you would rather have been: BYU, San Diego St., Arizona, Duke, Ohio State, and Kansas than UCONN. They all won more regular season games than UCONN.

Wins are not all that matter. When you win is what matters.

44cuse

 

[44cuse]

I am pretty sure the only thing that matters in sports is who gets the "W". I would rather be the ugliest winning team than the prettiest loser (we have had plenty of those).

There are plenty of teams that win a lot of games. That does not mean they are the best team or are going to win the tournament. When you win matters. BYU won 30 games last year but I think we all knew they weren't winning it all. San Diego St won 32 (?) games last year...and they weren't winning it all.

Who you play and when you win matters. See: UCONN.

44cuse

 

[KingOtis]

Ok, so that is 4 (uconn twice). I seem to remember playing poorly against Miami that year too...I mean in the game leading into the NCAAs that year we shot 28% from the field and 11% from 3...

Who cares about the BET loss to UConn? Those games are meaningless when you're already in. We still got a #3 seed and many felt we deserved a #2.

Yeah, the Miami game was ugly. G-Mac shoot poorly and I remember hearing complaints about traveling down there. We've had some ugly games at USF as well. But last night's game was at the Dome.

 

[KingOtis]

well we play "other teams"...and when you say things like we dont look like a team that can get to New Orleans you are inferring that is because there are teams that are better than us that will beat us...

No, I'm implying that we're likely to beat ourselves.

When the bracket comes out, I'll be happy to get into specifics.

 

[AZOrange]

There are plenty of teams that win a lot of games. That does not mean they are the best team or are going to win the tournament. When you win matters. BYU won 30 games last year but I think we all knew they weren't winning it all. San Diego St won 32 (?) games last year...and they weren't winning it all.

Who you play and when you win matters. See: UCONN.

44cuse

I think the "point" here is the W is all that matters. If we get teh most W's on the year...theoretically we have won it all...

 

[AZOrange]

Who cares about the BET loss to UConn? Those games are meaningless when you're already in. We still got a #3 seed and many felt we deserved a #2.

Yeah, the Miami game was ugly. G-Mac shoot poorly and I remember hearing complaints about traveling down there. We've had some ugly games at USF as well. But last night's game was at the Dome.

I dont think any game is meaningless when figuring out how you are playing going into the NCAAs. Given that theory you can basically argue that we have been playing meaningless games for a week as we are already in the tourney.

 

[dollarbill44]

Got it. I understand now. You would rather have been: Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Louisville, or Cincinnati than UCONN last year. They all had more wins than UCONN in the Big East. And you would rather have been: BYU, San Diego St., Arizona, Duke, Ohio State, and Kansas than UCONN. They all won more regular season games than UCONN.

Wins are not all that matter. When you win is what matters.

44cuse

No, you really don't understand my viewpoint at all. I have maintained all along that winning each game is far more important than how you win it. I never differentiated between regular season and postseason. If we end up 39-1, I could give a rats behind if we won the last 10 games by 10 points combined. It really won't matter.

Btw, since you brought up UConn, how were they looking on February 23rd last year? Would you have been sanguine about their performance, knowing that they were going to go on a tear and win it all? How many style points did they get losing 4 out of their final 5 last year heading into the postseason?

 

[KingOtis]

I dont think any game is meaningless when figuring out how you are playing going into the NCAAs. Given that theory you can basically argue that we have been playing meaningless games for a week as we are already in the tourney.

We haven't won the BE yet, nor have we solidified a #1 seed. We need to beat UConn first. We do that and the Louisville game is meaningless. We proved two years ago that we can lose our first BET game and still get a #1. The committee tends to reward teams for doing well in conference tourneys, but doesn't really penalize teams for getting knocked out early.

And since when is how we're playing important to you? All you care about is the final score.

 

[44cuse]

I think the "point" here is the W is all that matters. If we get teh most W's on the year...theoretically we have won it all...

Yeah, that is exactly the point. Find the last season when the team that won the NCAA Tournament had the most wins. The team with the most W's is rarely the NCAA Tourney Champion.

It's when you win that matters.

44cuse

 

[44cuse]

No, you really don't understand my viewpoint at all. I have maintained all along that winning each game is far more important than how you win it. I never differentiated between regular season and postseason. If we end up 39-1, I could give a rats behind if we won the last 10 games by 10 points combined. It really won't matter.

Btw, since you brought up UConn, how were they looking on February 23rd last year? Would you have been sanguine about their performance, knowing that they were going to go on a tear and win it all? How many style points did they get losing 4 out of their final 5 last year heading into the postseason?

Whether you want to believe it or not, that is not what you said. This is what you said: "I haven't read the entire thread but I have to say that the only measure that counts is Ws and Ls and by that measure, we are not playing mediocre basketball."

The only measure that counts is when you win. And you can go check that two ways:

1. See UCONN last year (not the most wins and won the tourney).
2. Find the last year that the team with the most wins won the tourney. You're gonna have to look hard.

UCONN was playing mediocre basketball at 9-9 (pretty much the definition of mediocre) and ended up winning it all thus proving the point that it is not Ws and Ls that matters, it is WHEN you get your Ws and Ls that matter.

I DO understand your viewpoint and I agree with it. But you changed it from your initial post by saying that "...the only measure that counts is Ws and Ls..." and that is not correct.

What you said in this post is dead on. And you made my point (although I'm not sure you realize that).

44cuse

 

[AZOrange]

We haven't won the BE yet, nor have we solidified a #1 seed. We need to beat UConn first. We do that and the Louisville game is meaningless. We proved two years ago that we can lose our first BET game and still get a #1. The committee tends to reward teams for doing well in conference tourneys, but doesn't really penalize teams for getting knocked out early.

And since when is how we're playing important to you? All you care about is the final score.

I think we won at least a share of the BE last night. I dont think I ever said how you are playing is not important. But there is nothing more important than getting the W. You think you can come up with some magical algorithm based on how we played in a particular game and determine how likely we are to win the NCAAT based on that. This stuff about the only way we can lose is if we beat ourselves is complete bunk. Teams can beat us on any night. But this rule is applicable to all teams.

 

[AZOrange]

Yeah, that is exactly the point. Find the last season when the team that won the NCAA Tournament had the most wins. The team with the most W's is rarely the NCAA Tourney Champion.

It's when you win that matters.

44cuse

I am talking about us this season. If we get 39 Ws, nothing else (including style points) matters.

 

[dollarbill44]

Whether you want to believe it or not, that is not what you said. This is what you said: "I haven't read the entire thread but I have to say that the only measure that counts is Ws and Ls and by that measure, we are not playing mediocre basketball."

The only measure that counts is when you win. And you can go check that two ways:

1. See UCONN last year (not the most wins and won the tourney).
2. Find the last year that the team with the most wins won the tourney. You're gonna have to look hard.

UCONN was playing mediocre basketball at 9-9 (pretty much the definition of mediocre) and ended up winning it all thus proving the point that it is not Ws and Ls that matters, it is WHEN you get your Ws and Ls that matter.

I DO understand your viewpoint and I agree with it. But you changed it from your initial post by saying that "...the only measure that counts is Ws and Ls..." and that is not correct.

What you said in this post is dead on. And you made my point (although I'm not sure you realize that).

44cuse

I read it and I read it and I still don't see where I said regular season wins are all that matters. No matter, though as we are on common ground as far as winning in March is concerned.

 

[AZOrange]

Whether you want to believe it or not, that is not what you said. This is what you said: "I haven't read the entire thread but I have to say that the only measure that counts is Ws and Ls and by that measure, we are not playing mediocre basketball."

The only measure that counts is when you win. And you can go check that two ways:

1. See UCONN last year (not the most wins and won the tourney).
2. Find the last year that the team with the most wins won the tourney. You're gonna have to look hard.

UCONN was playing mediocre basketball at 9-9 (pretty much the definition of mediocre) and ended up winning it all thus proving the point that it is not Ws and Ls that matters, it is WHEN you get your Ws and Ls that matter.

I DO understand your viewpoint and I agree with it. But you changed it from your initial post by saying that "...the only measure that counts is Ws and Ls..." and that is not correct.

What you said in this post is dead on. And you made my point (although I'm not sure you realize that).

44cuse

I would guess Duke and certainly UNC did it the years prior to Uconn.

 

[44cuse]

I am talking about us this season. If we get 39 Ws, nothing else (including style points) matters.

That's part of the problem with jumping in...context. The context was in response to the comment that all that matters is Ws and Ls. And that's not true. Agreed, if we win the rest of games, that's all that matters. There are no style points (hence my UCONN reference). Struggling to see why this is so hard to grasp.

44cuse

 

[cusetown1]

If I had to choose 1 win for the next two games I'd want it to be against UL. Senior day, undefeated at home and finish off the season with a win.

 

[44cuse]

I read it and I read it and I still don't see where I said regular season wins are all that matters. No matter, though as we are on common ground as far as winning in March is concerned.

Agreed, style points don't mean jack crap if we win it all. That said, I don't think there are too many here arguing style points (although there are some). We could even lose in the BET and it still wouldn't be a big deal if we win it all.

44cuse

 

[KingOtis]

I think we won at least a share of the BE last night. I dont think I ever said how you are playing is not important. But there is nothing more important than getting the W. You think you can come up with some magical algorithm based on how we played in a particular game and determine how likely we are to win the NCAAT based on that. This stuff about the only way we can lose is if we beat ourselves is complete bunk. Teams can beat us on any night. But this rule is applicable to all teams.

With all due respect, this is getting nonsensical. Agree to disagree.