I feel both good and weird about this class

[dasher]

I completely grasp it.

I’m guessing u sold all your stock and got out the market forever Tuesday morning.

You know, because of those recent ‘facts’.

Lville was a scheduled loss in July; BC early November.

I get it, you think Mahoney was Hostetler, Foles etc.

I think he’s...well I won’t say because he gave his all.

You don't grasp it.

 

[RF2044]

Fair points. I think he could have gotten 4 and been completely crushed in other games like we saw against GTech.

I don't think I'm wrong though in saying, we are in the ACC, the constant complaining about our schedule is starting to just be an excuse. We absolutely had a brutal schedule but if we want to play big boy football we can't complain about playing in a tough league. I still give DB a pass overall because he is the best person we could have hoped for and I think we're on the right track. But we really have to stop complaining about the schedule, it is what it is. Was he going to win 8 games last year, of course not but 4 isn't good but that doesn't mean I think DB sucks or we aren't headed in the right direction.

I think you ARE wrong. What was our SOS last year? That's not an excuse, it is a fact.

And as we ascend, having a top 10 schedule for multiple years in a row wasn't conducive to on-field success -- especially in an era where there are practically unlimited bowl spots that can't be filled by teams that break .500. Especially in an era where numerous P5 teams schedule for success, to ensure minimal bowl eligibility.

It isn't an "excuse," and it isn't a "compliant" to point out that our SOS had a detrimental impact on our record, and that a less aggressive schedule might have yielded a better record, against an admittedly fluffier slate.

 

[qdawgg]

I think you ARE wrong. What was our SOS last year? That's not an excuse, it is a fact.

And as we ascend, having a top 10 schedule for multiple years in a row wasn't conducive to on-field success -- especially in an era where there are practically unlimited bowl spots that can't be filled by teams that break .500. Especially in an era where numerous P5 teams schedule for success, to ensure minimal bowl eligibility.

It isn't an "excuse," and it isn't a "compliant" to point out that our SOS had a detrimental impact on our record, and that a less aggressive schedule might have yielded a better record, against an admittedly fluffier slate.

You didn't say anything I haven't said already. Except at some point we have to grow a pair because we are in fact talking about football and just accept the fact we play a tough schedule. If we don't like it, lets go back to the BE. We're in a tough league, we are going to have a pretty tough schedule every year. Throwing 1 more cupcake into the equation doesn't make that big of a difference. We lost this year to a team we should have beat. Unless you subscribe to the excuse we lost because Shafer was on the other team, which is ridiculous.

 

[RF2044]

You didn't say anything I haven't said already. Except at some point we have to grow a pair because we are in fact talking about football and just accept the fact we play a tough schedule. If we don't like it, lets go back to the BE. We're in a tough league, we are going to have a pretty tough schedule every year. Throwing 1 more cupcake into the equation doesn't make that big of a difference. We lost this year to a team we should have beat. Unless you subscribe to the excuse we lost because Shafer was on the other team, which is ridiculous.

I'm so sick of hearing people mis-categorize reasons as "excuses." If we were in the BE, Babers would have won 7 or 8 games both years--even with a sub-optimal roster not comprised of his players. It doesn't have anything to do with "throwing 1 more cupcake into the equation" -- that straw man completely misses that point.. The schedule we played in the BE was substantially easier than what we play now. Fact. Playing in the toughest division of a substantially tougher conference compounds the challenge of getting to a bowl. Another fact.

It is tiresome to see people only point to W-L, while simultaneously covering their ears about playing a tougher schedule . We could have easily qualified for bowl games if we'd scheduled differently, or didn't have as tough of a draw against the other half of the conference [swap out Duke or UVa for Miami]. We could have qualified for one last year, if Dungey hadn't gotten injured. Our 4-8 is deceptive as hell, even against the tough slate. We could easily have won 5 [and qualified for a bowl], or six if we don't botch that squib at LSU or miss a FG at FSU or have the wheels fall off after pissing away a 17 point first half lead against WF, or shiz the bed against ETSU.

I'm 100% in agreement that we pissed away the ETSU game. Can't happen again. But if you look at year 1 of Babers's coaching tenure and equate year 2's performance as being the same based upon record, then you aren't paying attention to what transpired on the field. Context matters. Sorry, but it does.

 

[qdawgg]

I'm so sick of hearing people mis-categorize reasons as "excuses." If we were in the BE, Babers would have won 7 or 8 games both years--even with a sub-optimal roster not comprised of his players. It doesn't have anything to do with "throwing 1 more cupcake into the equation" -- that straw man completely misses that point.. The schedule we played in the BE was substantially easier than what we play now. Fact. Playing in the toughest division of a substantially tougher conference compounds the challenge of getting to a bowl. Another fact.

It is tiresome to see people only point to W-L, while simultaneously covering their ears about playing a tougher schedule . We could have easily qualified for bowl games if we'd scheduled differently, or didn't have as tough of a draw against the other half of the conference [swap out Duke or UVa for Miami]. We could have qualified for one last year, if Dungey hadn't gotten injured. Our 4-8 is deceptive as hell, even against the tough slate. We could easily have won 5 [and qualified for a bowl], or six if we don't botch that squib at LSU or miss a FG at FSU or have the wheels fall off after pissing away a 17 point first half lead against WF, or shiz the bed against ETSU.

I'm 100% in agreement that we pissed away the ETSU game. Can't happen again. But if you look at year 1 of Babers's coaching tenure and equate year 2's performance as being the same based upon record, then you aren't paying attention to what transpired on the field. Context matters. Sorry, but it does.

I guess I'm completely missing how we have a difference in opinion other than the "tough schedule" idea can only be used so much. Of course it's a fact, I said it was a huge factor. I don't disagree with anything you're saying, I've said it myself before. At the same time, we should have had 5 wins but it is what it is. You lose games you shouldn't, games aren't played on paper.

 

[PhatOrange]

Super tough schedule with mac talent (putting it nicely) and no depth equals 4-8. Tough schedule with better talent and an older OL maybe gets us to a bowl. Tough schedule with ACC talent across the board with good depth and a veteran OL looking at upwards of 8-4, 9-3 or better.

it's a process and in football there is no quick fix.

 

[KaiserUEO]

You don't grasp it.

I completely grasp it.

You think he should’ve made chicken salad out of chicken shlit for the whole season instead of a select game or 2.

I’m giving him a pass so I can see what he does when he at least has a chicken.

 

[dasher]

I completely grasp it.

You think he should’ve made chicken salad out of chicken shlit for the whole season instead of a select game or 2.

I’m giving him a pass so I can see what he does when he at least has a chicken.

You don't grasp it.

 

[IthacaMatt]

That's fine. Let's not pretend that he made this team in to as you put it, chicken salad. He hasn't. He might turn out to be a coaching guru. We don't know yet. So far however, he has never built a team with his own players. Not at his first two stops and not yet here.

The team was much better year two, until we got to November and there was nothing left in the tank because too many of our best players were injured.

I think this year, we have the best depth we have had in some time, and we have some high end talent. I think we can win 6 or 7 this year, or we could win 5.

The schedule to me hinges on the following:

• Winning a road game at either BC or Pitt, plus
• Winning 2 from the following 4 game stretch, 3 of which are at home, coming out of the bye week:
  • UNC
  • NC State
  • @ Wake
  • Louisville

That gets us to a bowl.

 

[dasher]

The team was much better year two, until we got to November and there was nothing left in the tank because too many of our best players were injured.

I think this year, we have the best depth we have had in some time, and we have some high end talent. I think we can win 6 or 7 this year, or we could win 5.

The schedule to me hinges on the following:

• Winning a road game at either BC or Pitt, plus
• Winning 2 from the following 4 game stretch, 3 of which are at home, coming out of the bye week:
  • UNC
  • NC State
  • @ Wake
  • Louisville

That gets us to a bowl.

Pitt and B.C. will be very difficult for us to win on the road. I would feel better about 3 out of 4 in the second group.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Pitt and B.C. will be very difficult for us to win on the road. I would feel better about 3 out of 4 in the second group.

Well, it's either/or; that's my point. Three out of four against our "better than peer" group will be tough, too.

 

[SWC75]

Good because it's deep, has a lot of good talent across the board, we won some battles, and it's really clear we're getting better.

Weird because the two guys I was really excited about, Sampson and Jordan, aren't a part of it. Good because we ended up with 2 surprises in Aimee and Adams that were big gets at positions of need.

So, yeah.

The key is depth. The last four years we have been 14-18 through October and 1-15 in November. That's all about depth: injuries, fatigue, guys having to play hurt, being unable to alternate people, etc. The question is: do we now have enough depth to continue competing for 3 months and 12 games.

 

[SWC75]

How many Chukwus can one school have honestly?

I'm sure the NCAA has a rule about it.

 

[SWC75]

lol Don't ever go in to the Hedge fund business. We don't have proof of concept. Coach Babers has never built a team of his players in to a powerful team. Doesn't mean he won't. I say this as I am rooting for him as much as you are. I like him and think he is the right guy for the job. But, he hasn't done better than 4-8 here yet. And let's face it, the best recruiting class in a long time with this program isn't a high bar. Hopefully it will translate to more wins. And soon. All I am saying is that nothing has been proven yet. The Clemson game was great. The Va Tech game last year was great. Good for them. Good for us. But I'm not ready to break out the champagne just yet. A winning season or two might be in order before we do that or think it is out of line to withhold judgment just yet.

Maybe not but he's built a team of his predecessor's players into a powerful team:
Eastern Illinois Game by Game Results

And much of what he does is borrowed from Baylor. it certainly worked there.

 

[SWC75]

I'm so sick of hearing people mis-categorize reasons as "excuses." If we were in the BE, Babers would have won 7 or 8 games both years--even with a sub-optimal roster not comprised of his players. It doesn't have anything to do with "throwing 1 more cupcake into the equation" -- that straw man completely misses that point.. The schedule we played in the BE was substantially easier than what we play now. Fact. Playing in the toughest division of a substantially tougher conference compounds the challenge of getting to a bowl. Another fact.

It is tiresome to see people only point to W-L, while simultaneously covering their ears about playing a tougher schedule . We could have easily qualified for bowl games if we'd scheduled differently, or didn't have as tough of a draw against the other half of the conference [swap out Duke or UVa for Miami]. We could have qualified for one last year, if Dungey hadn't gotten injured. Our 4-8 is deceptive as hell, even against the tough slate. We could easily have won 5 [and qualified for a bowl], or six if we don't botch that squib at LSU or miss a FG at FSU or have the wheels fall off after pissing away a 17 point first half lead against WF, or shiz the bed against ETSU.

I'm 100% in agreement that we pissed away the ETSU game. Can't happen again. But if you look at year 1 of Babers's coaching tenure and equate year 2's performance as being the same based upon record, then you aren't paying attention to what transpired on the field. Context matters. Sorry, but it does.

So am I. Things like injuries and strength of schedule certainly matter and I've seen many instances of posters on both the football and basketball board dismissing legitimate reasons for difficulties in order to insist that the coach is the only reason.

That said, we are trying to compete in the ACC. Competitive performances in losses may indicate that we are getting closer to at least holding our own in this conference but the fact that they are losses indicates that we aren't where we need to be yet. Another losing season and it will become harder for Dino to sell recruits on the idea that we are a coming program. it will certainly be harder to sell the fans on that: their patience will be gone. it's time for results.

 

[kcsu]

I can't go near that far. I like what he is doing but he has to show he can bring in his own team and actually win more games than he loses three seasons in a row. He is a long ways away from accomplishing anything like that. how about he has one winning season before we give him a lifetime contract.

We give him the lifetime contract now. Rename the stadium the Dino Dome after his first winning season.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The key is depth. The last four years we have been 14-18 through October and 1-15 in November. That's all about depth: injuries, fatigue, guys having to play hurt, being unable to alternate people, etc. The question is: do we now have enough depth to continue competing for 3 months and 12 games.

Agree 100% and that is what it will come down too. Little bit of luck too. ( I hate the luck comment but it's true)

I am not ready to give a lifetime contract but I think we have all learned and can agree that firing or replacing a coach every 3-4 years is a horrible way to rebuild. I think we should follow the Duke plan that they did with Cut. Dino gets a minimum of 5-6 years.

A bowl game this year would be a step in the right direction for sure and I am all for tweaking as Dino goes but certainly don't want to be on the market for a HC in another year or two, so the only alternative is to give Dino every opportunity to complete his rebuild which I think we all agree there

 

[SUFaninNJ]

I completely grasp it.

I’m guessing u sold all your stock and got out the market forever Tuesday morning.

You know, because of those recent ‘facts’.

Lville was a scheduled loss in July; BC early November.

I get it, you think Mahoney was Hostetler, Foles etc.

I think he’s...well I won’t say because he gave his all.

 

[SoBristol]

...

That said, we are trying to compete in the ACC. Competitive performances in losses may indicate that we are getting closer to at least holding our own in this conference but the fact that they are losses indicates that we aren't where we need to be yet. ...

Of course. We have the challenge of competing with very good ACC teams. We have the challenge of overcoming location and a history of losing. We also have all the advantages of being in the ACC ($$ for coaches and facilities; TV exposure & recruiting advantages) and an IPF not available in the Marrone era. The measuring stick for now is the bottom third of the ACC -- BC, Wake, Pitt, Virginia. And taking advantage of our OOC schedule to make a bowl.
Where we need to be -- 3 or 4 solid recruiting classes in a row; a second unit (including a back up QB) that matches what our rivals have; our share of players who deserve to be on all-league teams -- at least 3rd team and honorable mention. If Dino and this staff is all about offense, we need to be better than #70 in points scored. There seems to be progress.

 

[KaiserUEO]

You don't grasp it.

I’m trying Ringo, I’m trying...real...hard.

You either think that SS left the cupboard stock full of talent and Dino can’t win with them. (the NFL disagrees about SS talent).

Or...you think that Dino’s 1st real recruiting class, last years...should’ve been able to beat out 5 years+ of P5 recruiting and talent at the rest of the ACC.

Or...you’re Mrs Mahoney.

 

[Alsacs]

I’m trying Ringo, I’m trying...real...hard.

You either think that SS left the cupboard stock full of talent and Dino can’t win with them. (the NFL disagrees about SS talent).

Or...you think that Dino’s 1st real recruiting class, last years...should’ve been able to beat out 5 years+ of P5 recruiting and talent at the rest of the ACC.

Or...you’re Mrs Mahoney.

Dasher is still in Missouri mode for Dino.
I think he realizes he took over a program with little depth or high end talent.
I see Dino and realize he is the best we can ask for where the program is.
I would want him the rest of his career.
He gets it. He has made mistakes but he gets it.
Syracuse football needs a guy who gets it.
Our talent is being increased across the board.
It’s just Dino needs 4 years for his guys to churn in.
Shafer left him little and I am still pissed that guy was hired and he actually thinks he got screwed with only 3 years.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Dasher is still in Missouri mode for Dino.
I think he realizes he took over a program with little depth or high end talent.
I see Dino and realize he is the best we can ask for where the program is.
I would want him the rest of his career.
He gets it. He has made mistakes but he gets it.
Syracuse football needs a guy who gets it.
Our talent is being increased across the board.
It’s just Dino needs 4 years for his guys to churn in.
Shafer left him little and I am still pissed that guy was hired and he actually thinks he got screwed with only 3 years.

Shafer was also a bozo and Dino isn't. There's that

 

[PhatOrange]

Agree 100% and that is what it will come down too. Little bit of luck too. ( I hate the luck comment but it's true)

I am not ready to give a lifetime contract but I think we have all learned and can agree that firing or replacing a coach every 3-4 years is a horrible way to rebuild. I think we should follow the Duke plan that they did with Cut. Dino gets a minimum of 5-6 years.

A bowl game this year would be a step in the right direction for sure and I am all for tweaking as Dino goes but certainly don't want to be on the market for a HC in another year or two, so the only alternative is to give Dino every opportunity to complete his rebuild which I think we all agree there

Even Doeren is heading into year 6.

 

[dasher]

I’m trying Ringo, I’m trying...real...hard.

You either think that SS left the cupboard stock full of talent and Dino can’t win with them. (the NFL disagrees about SS talent).

Or...you think that Dino’s 1st real recruiting class, last years...should’ve been able to beat out 5 years+ of P5 recruiting and talent at the rest of the ACC.

Or...you’re Mrs Mahoney.

I am the shepard

 

[cusefan88]

The team IMO needs to schedule as many winnable games as possible until the program has reached proper health. 2019-2021 looks very nice in that regard.