I felt compelled to write this...

[Ptzburghcuse]

There have been many critical posts of JB of late and over recent years. Many expecting things to improve when JB retires. I have seen posts on how difficult it is to follow a HOF coach and how few actually improve on the formers records, winning % etc. but I felt compelled to write this that despite our hardships in terms of middling ACC finishes and annual bubble talk for the past 6yrs or so, this is the way SU stacks up in terms of NCAA tournament appearances relative to others:

• SU is ranked #6 in all time appearances with 41 invites ahead of Indiana, Louisville, Michigan State, Arizona and about 340 more schools.
• 35 NCAA appearance have come under JB directly, 4 more came when he was an assistant, and 1 as a player - he has been involved in one way or another for 40 of the 41 NCAA appearances.
• SU is tied for 6th with Louisville in terms of sweet sixteen appearances with 24.
• Top 20 (17th) in Elite Eights
• 15th in Final Fours
• Have 3 Championship game appearances
• Our coach has nearly 1100 wins - in truth 2nd all time - and this isn't just longevity - this is consistently winning for a career - have there been struggles in the past 6yrs, yes, but signs are pointing toward a revival and I can't wait to see it unfold.

At the same time:

• There are 276 teams with 20 or less appearances in the tourney
• there are 37 schools that have never made the tournament - ever.

As a lifelong fan, I feel the recent loss of Karady as heavily as anyone here - I, too saw a ton of potential in that kid and think he will excel if given the chance to shine with more time, but I have high hopes for the coming years in terms of regular and tourney success under JB and am, and have been, enjoying the ride while we have him because he is going to be one tough act to follow.

 

[GooseMutt]

There have been many critical posts of JB of late and over recent years. Many expecting things to improve when JB retires. I have seen posts on how difficult it is to follow a HOF coach and how few actually improve on the formers records, winning % etc. but I felt compelled to write this that despite our hardships in terms of middling ACC finishes and annual bubble talk for the past 6yrs or so, this is the way SU stacks up in terms of NCAA tournament appearances relative to others:

• SU is ranked #6 in all time appearances with 41 invites ahead of Indiana, Louisville, Michigan State, Arizona and about 340 more schools.
• 35 NCAA appearance have come under JB directly, 4 more came when he was an assistant, and 1 as a player - he has been involved in one way or another for 40 of the 41 NCAA appearances.
• SU is tied for 6th with Louisville in terms of sweet sixteen appearances with 24.
• Top 20 (17th) in Elite Eights
• 15th in Final Fours
• Have 3 Championship game appearances
• Our coach has nearly 1100 wins - in truth 2nd all time - and this isn't just longevity - this is consistently winning for a career - have there been struggles in the past 6yrs, yes, but signs are pointing toward a revival and I can't wait to see it unfold.

At the same time:

• There are 276 teams with 20 or less appearances in the tourney
• there are 37 schools that have never made the tournament - ever.

As a lifelong fan, I feel the recent loss of Karady as heavily as anyone here - I, too saw a ton of potential in that kid and think he will excel if given the chance to shine with more time, but I have high hopes for the coming years in terms of regular and tourney success under JB and am, and have been, enjoying the ride while we have him because he is going to be one tough act to follow.

And?

 

[Cheriehoop]

And?

What?

 

[HoustonCuse]

I recently watched the Devo podcasts with Hopkins and Gerry. These guys ooze passion for the program and for the players. I’m sure Alan and Red are the same. This isn’t exactly related to your post, but really highlights how hard these guys must take losses and transfers. I’m not sure what led Kadary to transfer but I can’t imagine it was because of a lack of effort or buy-in on the part of this staff. They sacrifice a lot of themselves all for the development of the players, yes even the ones not starting or getting many minutes. That culture starts with JB. None of this means they are foolproof or perfect but man it’s so ugly to me to see how willing people are to attack them and accuse them of name-your-sin-of-choice.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Kadary's is going to the Pirates because that is his best option for his future pro aspirations, even with 3 other tall point guards. Seems that FSU and Kentucky probably asked some questions without getting satisfactory answers. He burned his bridges with us a long time ago. Does not sound like a team player. A point guard is a team leader and good chemistry is a necessity. I am looking forward to next years team and not give a moments thought to Kadary. Blaming Coach for Kadary leaving makes no sense. He made no secret that he wanted out.

 

[Sherman20]

There have been many critical posts of JB of late and over recent years. Many expecting things to improve when JB retires. I have seen posts on how difficult it is to follow a HOF coach and how few actually improve on the formers records, winning % etc. but I felt compelled to write this that despite our hardships in terms of middling ACC finishes and annual bubble talk for the past 6yrs or so, this is the way SU stacks up in terms of NCAA tournament appearances relative to others:

• SU is ranked #6 in all time appearances with 41 invites ahead of Indiana, Louisville, Michigan State, Arizona and about 340 more schools.
• 35 NCAA appearance have come under JB directly, 4 more came when he was an assistant, and 1 as a player - he has been involved in one way or another for 40 of the 41 NCAA appearances.
• SU is tied for 6th with Louisville in terms of sweet sixteen appearances with 24.
• Top 20 (17th) in Elite Eights
• 15th in Final Fours
• Have 3 Championship game appearances
• Our coach has nearly 1100 wins - in truth 2nd all time - and this isn't just longevity - this is consistently winning for a career - have there been struggles in the past 6yrs, yes, but signs are pointing toward a revival and I can't wait to see it unfold.

At the same time:

• There are 276 teams with 20 or less appearances in the tourney
• there are 37 schools that have never made the tournament - ever.

As a lifelong fan, I feel the recent loss of Karady as heavily as anyone here - I, too saw a ton of potential in that kid and think he will excel if given the chance to shine with more time, but I have high hopes for the coming years in terms of regular and tourney success under JB and am, and have been, enjoying the ride while we have him because he is going to be one tough act to follow.

Im glad you put this together. I was gonna do something like this recently because I’ve looked at this a lot. The fact that we’re #6 in total NCAA appearances and total number of Sweet 16s should make people see that the program is now one of the 10 best of all time and that JB and the university have built it to the point that when he steps down, we’ll continue to thrive (as long as we don’t make a disastrous coaching hire). One error I noticed in your rundown. Syracuse is tied for 11th most Final Fours (with 6 other programs).

 

[Killdozer]

Good write up with a lot of stats to show that SU is truly a blueblood in my opinion. However, past success doesn't mean future success with the same coach. Sometimes a coach may not be able to adapt to "today's" player. I really want SU to win a lot more consistently like most fans but that hasn't been the case for the last 6-7 years. I just believe there are fans (including me) that see the way JB screams at players, except Buddy, on the sidelines. The way he talks down to the press. The way he seems to refuse to adapt his scheme as other blueblood coaches continually do. These are just some of the reason there are fans that look forward to the day JB retires. The teams that JB has put on the floor the last 5+ years are certainly not what many of us are use to based on all the stats that you provided. I am hoping to see a new, competitive team next year but I have my doubts. Hope that JB proves me wrong.

 

[GooseMutt]

What?

It was a joke. Piece was thorough and well done. Fact inclusive

 

[longtimefan]

It was a joke. Piece was thorough and well done. Fact inclusive

Sarcasm font, please.

 

[newmexicuse]

Excellent recap of Jimmy’s accomplishments. The Cuse will NEVER have another coach to match what Jimmy has achieved over the years.

all that being said, everybody’s time eventually passes. Our program has been just north of mediocre for quite awhile now. Only a few nice runs into the sweet sixteen have separated us from total recent mediocrity.

I agree tournament runs take on extra importance, but in terms of attendance and history, we have the best fans in all of college basketball. Yes, we have been a bit spoiled, but there is NO reason why our program should accept its current level of mediocrity.

as much as I appreciate all Jimmy has done, eventually, it is just time for some fresh blood.

I want to see next seasons team be stellar. We have a five star, we have a budding Buddy, we finally appear to have a viable center. There is no reason this should not be a ranked squad, maybe a legitimately contending squad if q comes back.

I hope we can get off the bubble and that Jimmy will be able to retire in a blaze of glory.

 

[supp]

Excellent recap of Jimmy’s accomplishments. The Cuse will NEVER have another coach to match what Jimmy has achieved over the years.

all that being said, everybody’s time eventually passes. Our program has been just north of mediocre for quite awhile now. Only a few nice runs into the sweet sixteen have separated us from total recent mediocrity.

I agree tournament runs take on extra importance, but in terms of attendance and history, we have the best fans in all of college basketball. Yes, we have been a bit spoiled, but there is NO reason why our program should accept its current level of mediocrity.

as much as I appreciate all Jimmy has done, eventually, it is just time for some fresh blood.

I want to see next seasons team be stellar. We have a five star, we have a budding Buddy, we finally appear to have a viable center. There is no reason this should not be a ranked squad, maybe a legitimately contending squad if q comes back.

I hope we can get off the bubble and that Jimmy will be able to retire in a blaze of glory.

Agreed. But people shouldn't also assume that things are all downhill once Boeheim retires, in part because of what Boeheim helped to build here. It's just as possible that we find a new gear than stagnate or worse. I'm sure when Danforth left the program coming off a final four, no one thought that Boeheim would match that accomplishment. In fact, I don't have to assume because I know that was the case for the first 10-12 years of Boeheim's career. But he eventually did. Same thing could happen with the successor. It might take a few years. It might take a couple of hires but it can definitely happen and has happened. And not just here. I'm sure some Villanova fans were certain the program would never reach Rollie and 1985 levels again. Or that Izzo could match Heathcote's accomplishments. Or Few be better than Monson. Or Painter over Keady. The list goes on.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Agreed. But people shouldn't also assume that things are all downhill once Boeheim retires, in part because of what Boeheim helped to build here. It's just as possible that we find a new gear than stagnate or worse. I'm sure when Danforth left the program coming off a final four, no one thought that Boeheim would match that accomplishment. In fact, I don't have to assume because I know that was the case for the first 10-12 years of Boeheim's career. But he eventually did. Same thing could happen with the successor. It might take a few years. It might take a couple of hires but it can definitely happen and has happened. And not just here. I'm sure some Villanova fans were certain the program would never reach Rollie and 1985 levels again. Or that Izzo could match Heathcote's accomplishments. Or Few be better than Monson. Or Painter over Keady. The list goes on.

Reading your post, I realized that all the examples of success you listed after a great coach retired or left - all those succeeding coaches had been assistants to the great coach at the university who started the high expectations within their program. Thought that was interesting that all of them came from inside the program’s ‘family’. Only Nova, who hired former assistant Lavin after Rollie had a miss till Jay Wright, another former assistant to Rollie, was hired.

 

[orangecuse]

Reading your post, I realized that all the examples of success you listed after a great coach retired or left - all those succeeding coaches had been assistants to the great coach at the university who started the high expectations within their program. Thought that was interesting that all of them came from inside the program’s ‘family’. Only Nova, who hired former assistant Lavin after Rollie had a miss till Jay Wright, another former assistant to Rollie, was hired.

I think you meant Steve Lappas, not Lavin. Steve Lavin never coached at 'Nova, but was an assistant at Purdue & UCLA before getting the head coaching job at UCLA and later at St. John's.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I think you meant Steve Lappas, not Lavin. Steve Lavin never coached at 'Nova, but was an assistant at Purdue & UCLA before getting the head coaching job at UCLA and later at St. John's.

Duh thank you - you are absolutely correct! It was Lappas not Lavin.

 

[longtimefan]

Duh thank you - you are absolutely correct! It was Lappas not Lavin.

Easy to confuse--they are both now TV hoops talking heads.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Our program has been just north of mediocre for quite awhile now. Only a few nice runs into the sweet sixteen have separated us from total recent mediocrity.

I think this is spot on, and what it does show is how good an in-game coach Boeheim is. That doesn't mean he's getting the best players, or playing the right players, but he has been an all-time great coach. He's having a hard time these past several years meeting the standard he has set for himself and the expectations he has created for us all.

 

[longtimefan]

Agreed. But people shouldn't also assume that things are all downhill once Boeheim retires, in part because of what Boeheim helped to build here. It's just as possible that we find a new gear than stagnate or worse. I'm sure when Danforth left the program coming off a final four, no one thought that Boeheim would match that accomplishment. In fact, I don't have to assume because I know that was the case for the first 10-12 years of Boeheim's career. But he eventually did. Same thing could happen with the successor. It might take a few years. It might take a couple of hires but it can definitely happen and has happened. And not just here. I'm sure some Villanova fans were certain the program would never reach Rollie and 1985 levels again. Or that Izzo could match Heathcote's accomplishments. Or Few be better than Monson. Or Painter over Keady. The list goes on.

I think you can come up with a longer list of programs that have taken major steps back after the iconic coach retired. Off the top of my head--Georgetown, UConn, Ohio St (after Taylor), Okie St (after Iba), and Indiana.

As to the Danforth-Boeheim example you cited--Danforth's last team was not the FF team, and in my opinion, Boeheim's first 10-12 years were better than Danforth's whole SU career.

 

[IthacaMatt]

As to the Danforth-Boeheim example you cited--Danforth's last team was not the FF team, and in my opinion, Boeheim's first 10-12 years were better than Danforth's whole SU career.

That's certainly true, but (1) Danforth built the platform for Boeheim, and (2) playing as an Eastern Independent was much much different than playing in the brand new Big East.

Within just a couple years of its formation (and the very beginning of Boeheim's tenure), the Big East was prime time TV, and the most watched conference in America.

 

[longtimefan]

That's certainly true, but (1) Danforth built the platform for Boeheim, and (2) playing as an Eastern Independent was much much different than playing in the brand new Big East.

Within just a couple years of its formation (and the very beginning of Boeheim's tenure), the Big East was prime time TV, and the most watched conference in America.

Which means that First-12-years JB faced much tougher opposition than did Danforth during his entire SU tenure.

 

[Bball44]

That's certainly true, but (1) Danforth built the platform for Boeheim, and (2) playing as an Eastern Independent was much much different than playing in the brand new Big East.

Within just a couple years of its formation (and the very beginning of Boeheim's tenure), the Big East was prime time TV, and the most watched conference in America.

Big East was formed in JB's 4th season, with Louie and Bouie as seniors. His first 3 years it was the old ECAC, with Bonnies as a big rival.

 

[Cuse#1]

Kadary's is going to the Pirates because that is his best option for his future pro aspirations, even with 3 other tall point guards. Seems that FSU and Kentucky probably asked some questions without getting satisfactory answers. He burned his bridges with us a long time ago. Does not sound like a team player. A point guard is a team leader and good chemistry is a necessity. I am looking forward to next years team and not give a moments thought to Kadary. Blaming Coach for Kadary leaving makes no sense. He made no secret that he wanted out.

And what was or what were these things that you noticed to make you say he made no secret that he wanted out??? I dont remember anybody talking about this during the season. Look I appreciate JB as much as most But there are some that think he can do no wrong that's just ridiculous lol.
you cannot sit here and say that it makes no sense that he may be the reason that he left

 

[IthacaMatt]

Which means that First-12-years JB faced much tougher opposition than did Danforth during his entire SU tenure.

And he was able to get much, much better players.

 

[longtimefan]

And he was able to get much, much better players.

And who was his first great player? Rosie Bouie, who, legend has it, would have gone to St. Bonnies if Danforth were still the coach.

Which is beside the point. Roy Danforth got the program off the ground, but there is reason to doubt he could have raised it to the level it has risen to over the past 45 years--especially considering his record at Tulane.

 

[Killdozer]

I think you can come up with a longer list of programs that have taken major steps back after the iconic coach retired. Off the top of my head--Georgetown, UConn, Ohio St (after Taylor), Okie St (after Iba), and Indiana.

As to the Danforth-Boeheim example you cited--Danforth's last team was not the FF team, and in my opinion, Boeheim's first 10-12 years were better than Danforth's whole SU career.

You mentioned UCONN but you realize that Kevin Ollie won a national championship after Calhoun left.

 

[longtimefan]

You mentioned UCONN but you realize that Kevin Ollie won a national championship after Calhoun left.

With Calhoun's roster.

And apparently because Napier made a deal with the devil.